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Author Topic: 1/2 power mod on a 50watt OTS ?  (Read 27118 times)
Franne500
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« on: December 08, 2008, 02:04:56 PM »

Hi again,


is it possible to make a 1/2 power mod to my OTS 50 watt ?
I sometimes play small venues and the bands sound engineer is VERY scared of guitar volume......  Huh?



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JD0x0
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2008, 03:39:31 PM »

i get the same problem. last gig i was in a bar with my master on 1 and i was shaking the entire bar. the sound guy there was shit, but i was way overpowering
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hywelg
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2008, 04:21:19 PM »

There are various ways of reducing your volume but still driving your amp.

1. Attenuator. I have two THD's They work well up to 8dB but thereafter the volume loss is accompanied by a loss of tone. 8dB is not that much quieter.

2. Pentode/triode switching. Not sure how much this reduces output but on amps I've tried it on it is always accompanied by a significant loss of tone.

3. Lower B+ voltage. My Fender Twin had a quarter power switch which was achieved by lowering the B+ voltage. Some loss of tone but not too bad, still way too loud though. 25watts vs 100watts but 10 watts is half as loud as 100watts so you don't get much of a benefit.

4. Powerscaling. A variable version of 3, but when implemented properly can achieve significant lowering of the volume with minimal loss of tone.Of course if you're looking to have your master at 5+ and channel vol at 7 or 8 but still only bedroom level then you will have a loss of tone. on the one amp I tried it on ( A Matamp GT1) it worked very well indeed so much so that my next kit is going to have London Powers version (recognised as one of the pioneers of this technique) installed on it. You probably need a tech to install it unless you are pretty good at the black electronic arts!

5. get yourself a low wattage amp. This probably means a Single ended 5-7 watt amp. Nik has an OTS 5w on the way so keep looking on the site for an announcement.

Some 4 valve amps have a half power switch which remove two of the 4 poweramp valves from the circuit. About a 20% volume drop and an amp that doesn't sound as 'big'.
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JohnE
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 12:27:01 AM »

i get the same problem. last gig i was in a bar with my master on 1 and i was shaking the entire bar. the sound guy there was shit, but i was way overpowering

I will tell you how I manage, but I have to warn you, sometimes when I read what some people post on this forum I wonder if I am playing through the same amp as they are.  And don't get me wrong, these folks seem to know a lot more about amps than I do. Maybe I am not picky enough, but have not really had a bad experience with the OTS.

I play mainly in clubs that have a dance floor around 15' x 25', about ten tables (seat 50 -60) and a bar in the back. When we sound check, we set the volume so people can converse at the bar (with a raised voice, kind of shouting). I mic my amp through the mixer. I put baffles in a "v" shape in front of the speakers, mainly so I can hear the mix in the monitor (over the amp output ) and to attenuate the level somewhat. Here is the controversy: I use a TC G-sharp , in the loop with a BBE 482i and if I stay at or above 12 O'Clock on the G Sharp's level,  I don't lose any noticeable tone, but I can lower the volume somewhat . Others on this forum seem to be dissatisfied with this set-up,  but it sounds good to me and other people listening seem to think so.   I also use a couple Tube Screamer style pedals in series (usually a fulldrive 2, with an OD 9 or RT66, it really doesn't seem to matter all that much) and I can cut the volume to a point with out losing tone with the volume control on the OD pedals(and I can bring it up in a hurry by adding an OD pedal). 

We play a pretty broad mix of music and I change my guitar tone significantly,  2 or 3 times, at least, in a 10 song set. I also switch from an LP to a Strat for some sets. I use all the settings on the the OTS to get the right tone for the song being played and it would take way too much time to explain it all  but the switch settings affect volume greatly as well. It has taken me several gigs to get the settings right and I am still perfecting things. I have attached a picture of my rig, its not too great, but you get the idea. Ignore the blue box on top of the amp, that was another experiment.


* JohnsRig.JPG (945.31 KB, 1200x1600 - viewed 859 times.)
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JD0x0
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 01:21:32 AM »

i think one of the biggest problems is right now im using a marshall 4x12 with greenbacks. its all i have but its way more than i need. i ordered a custom 2x12 which should help with the volume problem. i really like to open the master up to about 3 because thats where my sweet spot seems to be.
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Franne500
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2008, 02:16:52 AM »

One will definetely be better off with a 2x12 if volume is a problem.

JohnE  - What kind of material do you use for the baffle ? Do you stille hear the amp on stage or do you have your guitar in the monitors ?

I REALLY don't like my guitar in the monitors...... Gets too spikey and strange   Smiley
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Alpedra
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2008, 05:21:13 AM »

i think one of the biggest problems is right now im using a marshall 4x12 with greenbacks. its all i have but its way more than i need. i ordered a custom 2x12 which should help with the volume problem. i really like to open the master up to about 3 because thats where my sweet spot seems to be.

Im sure it is.. the 50W OTS is not that loud. Youll find a couple of posts here at the forum that confirm this. Im playing it through a single Celestion G12 65 speaker though. I feel that my Ceria 36 W EF86, for example, is louder than the OTS
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Franne500
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2008, 11:25:19 AM »

In my case it's our singer who complains I'm too loud... Only two decades ago people played with 100 watt Marshll stacks. :Smiley
I've ordered mine with a Pentode/triode switch. I suppose that will affect tone but I don't know to what extent. I'm still waiting for the amp -- it's on its way and should be here any day now!


Make the singer go out and buy himself an In Ear system !!!! :-) 


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Jimmyd
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 12:21:42 PM »

Pentode/Triode switch is going to mess up your tone.  Attentuator is much much better solution.

Use the return of your FX loop to control the final volume.

50 watt OTS is LOUD.  You have to push some air to get those great tones.  I do not think there is an inexpensive way around this.

Baffles are typically made out of clear plexiglass.  That is a decent idea, more stuff to lug around though.

Using OD pedals for me with this amp kind of takes away the whole mystique.
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Franne500
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 12:50:00 PM »

In my case it's our singer who complains I'm too loud... Only two decades ago people played with 100 watt Marshll stacks. :Smiley
I've ordered mine with a Pentode/triode switch. I suppose that will affect tone but I don't know to what extent. I'm still waiting for the amp -- it's on its way and should be here any day now!


Make the singer go out and buy himself an In Ear system !!!! :-) 
It's a "she" -- nuff said. Grin

HA !!!!! Good one ! :-)
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bobbyd123
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 01:58:59 PM »


I had Nik do that mod to my 50 watt ODS,  it cuts alot of the tone out.   have you thought about putting a speaker in a box with a mic?   I've seen things like that adverised but never have used one
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Franne500
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 02:01:25 PM »


I had Nik do that mod to my 50 watt ODS,  it cuts alot of the tone out.   have you thought about putting a speaker in a box with a mic?   I've seen things like that adverised but never have used one


Yeah - thought about that but I really don't like the sound of my guitar in a monitor....really ruins my mood to play.... maybe I should just accept it and start looking for an In Ear system as well  and then put the speaker in a closed flight and mike it in there....
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hywelg
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 02:28:53 PM »

No, pentode is normal operation, full power.
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Jimmyd
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2008, 05:17:31 PM »


Use the return of your FX loop to control the final volume.

How does that work? I will also use a Kleinulator for a Holy Grail Reverb and a Fulltone Choralflange.



I'm not familiar with the Kleinulator, I use another type of Dumblelator clone and it has a "return" pot that I use to essentially set the whole volume of the rig.  I use it as the overall master.  I got this idea from reading another forum.  It isn't perfect but it does help.  I'm sure the Kleinulator works the same way.  Set your amp up volume wise where you need to be then start backing down the return.  Then start playing around with the interaction between the tone you're achieving and the master volume on the OTS until you strike a happy medium.

If I had another $500 lying around I'd plunk down for an Ultimate Attenuator.  There is no club or private event that I play that I could ever let the OTS sing above 5 on the master.  I think this is also where the amp just starts to really shine.  For this reason alone, the OTS may not be the amp for me, but I got to tell you it does have some kewl mojo and I think its a spectacular amp for the money.

I hate having alot of guitar in the monitors too fwtw.

jim
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JohnE
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2008, 05:48:05 PM »

One will definetely be better off with a 2x12 if volume is a problem.

JohnE  - What kind of material do you use for the baffle ? Do you stille hear the amp on stage or do you have your guitar in the monitors ?

I REALLY don't like my guitar in the monitors...... Gets too spikey and strange   Smiley

OK, don't laugh but... I use the panels on our PA rack. I think it is an SKB or something. These flat, double wall, plastic panels cover the front and back of our roller rack that holds our mixer, power amp, etc. I got the idea from Joe Bonamassa who plays through (4) 100W heads and (2) 4 x12 cabs in relatively small venues at times. His baffles are clear plexi glass.

If I stand over the speakers I can hear them, but I make a point at sound check and throughout the gig to keep the monitor mix up so my amp does not overpower the mix. It is important to me to hear what is going on with the rest of the band. 

Also, if you don't like your guitar sound in the monitor there is something wrong, probably at the board. The sound at the monitor is not necessarily what is heard on the floor but it is the best indication you have when on stage.. For me it helps me keep in time, etc. So it is very important to have the monitors setup properly
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