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Author Topic: TR CRS vs OTS  (Read 20976 times)
hywelg
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« on: August 01, 2008, 10:08:33 PM »
I was very fortunate to hear Matt Schofield play both his TR (100w Custom Reverb Signature on half power, NOS5751 in V2) and an OTS both through my EMV-12L cab (admittedly a too small cab as the speaker was in a small combo where its not destined to stay) This was at (loudish) class room volumes but by no means cranked.

The differences were quite marked. Whilst he sounded just like himself through both, the TR was way bigger in its tone,even at lowish volumes, brighter and a more full bass with a superior clarity to my ear. The OTS was at a slight disadvantage in that it wasn't set up the same, the trimmer was at about 12o'clock I think (that didn't affect the cleans of course) and of course V2 was the standard AX7. The OTS sounded very nice indeed but a little way off the TR tone but then the difference in price is huge. To my ear the TR did sound a lot more Fenderish than the OTS which defintely had way more mids than the TR.

We also tried the OTS through two cabs in parallel, a DrZ with a Vintage 30 and my EVM and I like the tone very much indeed, the V30 giving a real nice chime to the tone. I am now very seriously thinking of pairing the EVm with one of those when it moves into its 2x12.

mmm.... food for thought!!
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cat
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2008, 01:03:55 AM »
Cool, thanks for posting. It must be noted that the TR CRS and the OTS are intended to be quite different amps, although I'm sure you're not suggesting they're meant to be identical. What did Matt think of the OTS?

Cat
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cadsy48
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2008, 03:13:50 AM »
thats true, two rock claim to be an amp all of their own and not a clone...

in which case, shouldnt we be pushing nik to create a Two-Rock CR sig clone??  Grin Wink
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hywelg
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2008, 08:13:41 AM »
Quote from: cat on August 02, 2008, 01:03:55 AM
Cool, thanks for posting. It must be noted that the TR CRS and the OTS are intended to be quite different amps, although I'm sure you're not suggesting they're meant to be identical. What did Matt think of the OTS?

Cat

I think their starting points are pretty similar and the TR is definitely not a clone in the sense that the OTS is, what TR have done is take the design and refine it and improve it quite a lot. Matt wasn't that keen on the OTS, I think, but then he already has a TR!!. What I found was that the OTS was sufficiently similar for me to be heartened and to want to take it to a really knowledgeable tech who also knows the TR sound to see if he can mod mine to make it more like the TR.
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nickm57
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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2008, 08:29:51 AM »
Do you think this is a small component change caps, resistors, tubes or larger design based issue like the output transformer?
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AdrianJ
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2008, 12:36:21 PM »
Quote from: cadsy48 on August 02, 2008, 03:13:50 AM

in which case, shouldnt we be pushing nik to create a Two-Rock CR sig clone??  Grin Wink

Nik, you listening??

FWIW if anyone here is thinking of moding their OTS to a TR CS type amp, there's a lot of very helpful people over on ampgarage.com...
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hywelg
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2008, 01:15:05 PM »
Quote from: nickm57 on August 02, 2008, 08:29:51 AM
Do you think this is a small component change caps, resistors, tubes or larger design based issue like the output transformer?

Not sure, in fact I'm not sure its even possible, they might be too disimilar. It might require a lot of minor changes and personally I wouldn't know where to start. I suppose a TR schematic would help  Grin
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cadsy48
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2008, 01:54:22 PM »
    Im guessing the pic i posted in the "For those who want Two-Rock CR sig sound."  wouldnt help at all?? only give you half an idea Wink
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Pickmaster
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2008, 01:56:29 PM »
First of all – is your OTS modified?
I have TR CRS 50 and CRS100 W also TR Kimok 50W and after 2 months of extensive tweaking my 50W OTS sounds bigger and sweeter than all of them.  It also can do Plexy and Hi gain as a third channel.
Beauty of the Dumble circuit is  that one can tweak it endlessly. I also compared my OTS to my friends BLUDOdrive by Brandon Montgomery (exact copy of Robben Fords Dumble) and they were pretty similar.
BTW if you want to hear it side by side with a BLUDOTONE come today to my gig at "the Winkfield", Lovel Road, Winkfield, Windsor, Berkshire, SL4 2ES, gig starts at 9pm.

So don’t be broken hearted! Tweak your OTS and it will sound better the Matt’s amps Chair Dance
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 02:02:54 PM by Pickmaster » Logged
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2008, 03:49:56 PM »
Quote from: Pickmaster on August 02, 2008, 01:56:29 PM
First of all – is your OTS modified?
I have TR CRS 50 and CRS100 W also TR Kimok 50W and after 2 months of extensive tweaking my 50W OTS sounds bigger and sweeter than all of them.  It also can do Plexy and Hi gain as a third channel.
Beauty of the Dumble circuit is  that one can tweak it endlessly. I also compared my OTS to my friends BLUDOdrive by Brandon Montgomery (exact copy of Robben Fords Dumble) and they were pretty similar.
BTW if you want to hear it side by side with a BLUDOTONE come today to my gig at "the Winkfield", Lovel Road, Winkfield, Windsor, Berkshire, SL4 2ES, gig starts at 9pm.

So don’t be broken hearted! Tweak your OTS and it will sound better the Matt’s amps Chair Dance


Which tweaks did you perform on your OTS
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Pickmaster
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2008, 04:08:00 PM »
bluesfendermanblues,
As I’ve mentioned before I’ll post my tweak’s layout hopefully soon, after I’ll talk to Nik.
Best wishes
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hywelg
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2008, 10:05:15 PM »
Quote from: Pickmaster on August 02, 2008, 01:56:29 PM
First of all – is your OTS modified?
I have TR CRS 50 and CRS100 W also TR Kimok 50W and after 2 months of extensive tweaking my 50W OTS sounds bigger and sweeter than all of them.  It also can do Plexy and Hi gain as a third channel.

Thats great to know. I did some of the mods JZ posted plus I put a 680pF across the MV to brighten the tone at lower volumes. Still not where I want it to be and I wish I had the knowledge to try modding, but I need to be told 'change R(n) to XXXohms and C(n) to YYYpF etc' then i'll be able to get the iron warmed up.
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cat
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2008, 03:16:49 AM »
Quote from: Pickmaster on August 02, 2008, 04:08:00 PM
bluesfendermanblues,
As I’ve mentioned before I’ll post my tweak’s layout hopefully soon, after I’ll talk to Nik.
Best wishes


Will be much appreciated Pickmaster, Ill keep an eye out for them.

Cat
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JohnE
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2008, 07:47:02 PM »
Quote from: hywelg on August 02, 2008, 08:13:41 AM
Quote from: cat on August 02, 2008, 01:03:55 AM
Cool, thanks for posting. It must be noted that the TR CRS and the OTS are intended to be quite different amps, although I'm sure you're not suggesting they're meant to be identical. What did Matt think of the OTS?

Cat

I think their starting points are pretty similar and the TR is definitely not a clone in the sense that the OTS is, what TR have done is take the design and refine it and improve it quite a lot. Matt wasn't that keen on the OTS, I think, but then he already has a TR!!. What I found was that the OTS was sufficiently similar for me to be heartened and to want to take it to a really knowledgeable tech who also knows the TR sound to see if he can mod mine to make it more like the TR.

Hi Hywelg,
I am the guy who is a big Matt S fan here in the US, that is palying a Strat set Similar to yours (Fat warmoth neck, Lindy Frailin Vintage Hots, etc.).

I just wanted to pass on to you my latest upgrade that has yielded remarkable results with the strat. The best part is you don't have to mod your OTS to make it a Two Rock and you can accomplish this a lot cheaper than buying that TR.

As I have mentioned before, I have settings on my OTS that get a very good fenderish tone with my strat. The first key is to leave the deep switch off and stay out of the "rock" mode. These add that mid-range that makes the strat sound somewhat bloated.  Now, I have just set-up a rack with a TC Electronic G-sharp and a BBE Sonic Maximizer 482i. I bought both new for a total of less than $280 US. They are running through the effects loop.

With the OTS set up at 5 across the board except having the mid and base at about 7, Bright on, Deep off, Jazz on, OD and PAB on, I have a tone that far exceeds may '66 BFSR. The sonic maximizer will give you that "bigger tone,  full bass with superior clarity" that heard in the TR. That is what it is design to do. The guitar actually has a very clean tone with the above settings. I just tried it with my FullDrive 2 to get a little hair on the tone and it was very, very nice.

Check out the BBE Sonic Maximizer. 
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JohnE
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2008, 07:52:13 PM »
Quote from: hywelg on August 01, 2008, 10:08:33 PM
I was very fortunate to hear Matt Schofield play both his TR (100w Custom Reverb Signature on half power, NOS5751 in V2) and an OTS both through my EMV-12L cab (admittedly a too small cab as the speaker was in a small combo where its not destined to stay) This was at (loudish) class room volumes but by no means cranked.

The differences were quite marked. Whilst he sounded just like himself through both, the TR was way bigger in its tone,even at lowish volumes, brighter and a more full bass with a superior clarity to my ear. The OTS was at a slight disadvantage in that it wasn't set up the same, the trimmer was at about 12o'clock I think (that didn't affect the cleans of course) and of course V2 was the standard AX7. The OTS sounded very nice indeed but a little way off the TR tone but then the difference in price is huge. To my ear the TR did sound a lot more Fenderish than the OTS which defintely had way more mids than the TR.

We also tried the OTS through two cabs in parallel, a DrZ with a Vintage 30 and my EVM and I like the tone very much indeed, the V30 giving a real nice chime to the tone. I am now very seriously thinking of pairing the EVm with one of those when it moves into its 2x12.

mmm.... food for thought!!

I am going to bore everyone to death with this, but...I have an Avatar cab with a Vintage 30 and a G12H30 and it makes any amp played through it sound better. Not familiar with the EVM 12L, but I can't say enough about the Vinatge 30.
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