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Author Topic: Questions about new FM100  (Read 15960 times)
pethenis
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« on: September 01, 2011, 08:44:40 AM »

Hi, first time poster (the netherlands), just became the proud owner of a FM100 head with build-in C-lator, which I'm running into a TT-Cabs "Dumble"cabinet with G12-65 Heritage. Totally stock. Speakers and head are brand new, no burn-in period, so these questions might be premature, I'll ask anyway:

First, I agree with other posters saying the FM is unusable without the C-Lator, harsh and bright. I run the C-lator with the drive on 12 'o clock, first bright off (on is horrible?), In on 12 'o clock, Out low so I can open up the master volume on the amp, and the second bright on. Bright on the amp is also on. Guitars played sofar; PRS HBII, The Paul with T-Top's and Tele with Broadcasters.

Here's a clip if you can stand the noodling, I wasn't really playing, just hitting notes and listening to the way the amp responded ;-) It was recorded with a crappy mike, there's no low end to speak of, but you can sort of make out the good and the bad. This is the PRS HBII by the way.



From the few hours of playing I did sofar (sorta bedroom volume), I like the clean; round but spanky. The OD I can't nail yet. I think it's the "fizz" that's bothering me a bit. If I set up the clean the way I like (above settings), I feel there's a little bit too much fizz on the OD. It's better if I turn off the second bright switch on the C-lator, but then the clean suffers. So I guess the questions are:

What part of the amp actually generates this fizz and can something be done?
Can it be done seperately from the clean?
Is there a way to reduce the volume jump of the PAB?

Thanks for any thoughts!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 09:53:14 AM by pethenis » Logged
erwin_ve
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 09:37:01 AM »

Another dutchy! Best way is to turn off the bright switch on the clator and also turn it off on the amp.
On the amp; master half way up, on the clator; Drive; around 12 '0 clock, In: full clockwise, Out: this is your new master volume.
This will give you a round smooth OD tone on your amp.
If you raise the Presence you can get your tone controls up too; when the tone controls are more clockwise it will give less PAB volume jump. If still not satisfied there are some workarounds by changing some components.
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pethenis
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2011, 12:09:11 PM »

Thanks Erwin! I'll give that a try tonight. What is the relation between presence, tonecontrols and PAB? I thought PAB took the tonecontrols out of the signalpath? Is what you're saying, the more the controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less(?) the gap between non-PAB and PAB?
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erwin_ve
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2011, 12:20:12 PM »

You're welcome pethenis.
When the presence is more open you can use more bass and mid, especially on the FM series. The presence is working in the high and mid high frequencies.
For normal OTS series the presence is focused around high frequencies only.
Indeed the more the the tone controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less the gap between non-PAB and PAB.

Some other "trick": using RG400 cable for interfacing between amp and clator(don't have time to explain on that fenomenon).
Thanks Erwin! I'll give that a try tonight. What is the relation between presence, tonecontrols and PAB? I thought PAB took the tonecontrols out of the signalpath? Is what you're saying, the more the controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less(?) the gap between non-PAB and PAB?
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Kevster
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2011, 12:44:10 PM »

You're welcome pethenis.
When the presence is more open you can use more bass and mid, especially on the FM series. The presence is working in the high and mid high frequencies.
For normal OTS series the presence is focused around high frequencies only.
Indeed the more the the tone controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less the gap between non-PAB and PAB.

Some other "trick": using RG400 cable for interfacing between amp and clator(don't have time to explain on that fenomenon).
Thanks Erwin! I'll give that a try tonight. What is the relation between presence, tonecontrols and PAB? I thought PAB took the tonecontrols out of the signalpath? Is what you're saying, the more the controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less(?) the gap between non-PAB and PAB?
Erwin,  Do you have a source for pre-made cables that you can share, or do we need to build our own?  What's the optimum lengths? Thanks!!!
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pethenis
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2011, 01:07:11 PM »

Some other "trick": using RG400 cable for interfacing between amp and clator(don't have time to explain on that fenomenon).
[qPAB and PAB?
[/quote]

Aw, now you've made me very curious ;-) Anyway, when you have some time, I'd love to hear about it. Just found a post from a guy with a Quinn 183 who also uses them. Length determines the effect?
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2011, 01:27:47 PM »

Welcome Pethenis

Do you have external OD trimmer on rear panel? On my FM50 if that is set too high it can be really fizzy. I keep mine set at about 9:00. Anything past 12:00 is unuseable IMO


Todd
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pethenis
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2011, 01:36:23 PM »

Thanks Todd, my trimmer is also set on 9 'o clock. OD-wise I guess I'm looking for a nice sustain/bloom with the least amount of gain I can get away with  Smiley Gigging volume will help a lot too there I think. I just hope I can fine tune the balance between my cleans (which I like with a bit of glassy topend and just a hint of breakup when I hit it hard) and a nice fluid, warm (dark?) OD. Impossible?

Welcome Pethenis

Do you have external OD trimmer on rear panel? On my FM50 if that is set too high it can be really fizzy. I keep mine set at about 9:00. Anything past 12:00 is unuseable IMO


Todd
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 01:50:42 PM by pethenis » Logged
SoundPerf
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2011, 06:08:31 PM »

The bright settings on the Clator are useful sometimes, but not as base for your tone. I use them to get certain more clean tones on certain gutiars with certain setting. The bright setting on the Clator with the amp OD is not very good. I will use it sometimes with an OD pedal in fromt of the amp.

Give yourself some time to bond with the amp. It will pan out after some time. And it will change to the better with break in.  Smiley

Nice playing, BTW


Edit: I read the one post incorrectly and gave the wrong info.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 06:21:13 PM by SoundPerf » Logged

Chris

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SoundPerf
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2011, 06:30:12 PM »

Also, here's a link to the coax in question. I have yet to try this, but plan on it.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/coaxialcableconnectors3.php
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Chris

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Avatar 2X12 w/WGS ET-65 & Veteran 30
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2001 PRS McCarty
2010 PRS 513 Swamp Ash
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erwin_ve
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2011, 07:16:45 PM »

I'm not aware of any pre made (with jack plugs) Rg400 cable. Optimum lengt is around 2 meters.
You're welcome pethenis.
When the presence is more open you can use more bass and mid, especially on the FM series. The presence is working in the high and mid high frequencies.
For normal OTS series the presence is focused around high frequencies only.
Indeed the more the the tone controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less the gap between non-PAB and PAB.

Some other "trick": using RG400 cable for interfacing between amp and clator(don't have time to explain on that fenomenon).
Thanks Erwin! I'll give that a try tonight. What is the relation between presence, tonecontrols and PAB? I thought PAB took the tonecontrols out of the signalpath? Is what you're saying, the more the controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less(?) the gap between non-PAB and PAB?
Erwin,  Do you have a source for pre-made cables that you can share, or do we need to build our own?  What's the optimum lengths? Thanks!!!
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erwin_ve
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2011, 07:25:37 PM »

Without going into technical blabla; lenght determines high content and the RG400 is a very high quality cable.
The connection from the amp to the clator isn't supposed to be that long, the output of the amp and the output of the clator have a high impedance which even in a amp with suitable wire it is normally about 10cm max. Using  long cable or low quality cable is very significant in the high freq. Anyway; hearing is believing. I'm not going back to regular cables.


Aw, now you've made me very curious ;-) Anyway, when you have some time, I'd love to hear about it. Just found a post from a guy with a Quinn 183 who also uses them. Length determines the effect?
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Kevster
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2011, 08:22:06 PM »

I'm not aware of any pre made (with jack plugs) Rg400 cable. Optimum lengt is around 2 meters.
You're welcome pethenis.
When the presence is more open you can use more bass and mid, especially on the FM series. The presence is working in the high and mid high frequencies.
For normal OTS series the presence is focused around high frequencies only.
Indeed the more the the tone controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less the gap between non-PAB and PAB.

Some other "trick": using RG400 cable for interfacing between amp and clator(don't have time to explain on that fenomenon).
Thanks Erwin! I'll give that a try tonight. What is the relation between presence, tonecontrols and PAB? I thought PAB took the tonecontrols out of the signalpath? Is what you're saying, the more the controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less(?) the gap between non-PAB and PAB?
Erwin,  Do you have a source for pre-made cables that you can share, or do we need to build our own?  What's the optimum lengths? Thanks!!!
10 R-Angle Switchcraft 1/4" plugs and some RG-400 cable coming up!!!!  Two cables will be between the amp and D-lator, with a third also connecting with the rack mount effects unit in the head... Of course the cable runs for the outboard dely too.... Cabling is going to be tough with my rig, so I need to keep things quiet and with minimal loss.  Thanks!
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pethenis
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2011, 08:29:14 AM »

Erwin; So about two meters from Amp out to Clator and two back. Are you using regular guitar cables for send/return? I guess RG400 cable isn't very flexible.

does the cable brand matter (different values maybe?) I'd like to try it, but I have no idea how to solder jack plugs to that cable... Erm, I actually have no idea how to solder period  Undecided  On that note; If I ask really nice, could I possibly order a set from you Erwin?

Coming back to the amp itself; I tested your recommended settings with a bit more volume last night and was pleasantly surprised! The OD was woody but smooth, the amp went into feedback really nice, I think with a little more hours on the speakers and amp this should turn out really nice! All the bright switches off seems to work for me OD-wise. Raising the presence and opening up the tone controls solved my PAB volume jump as well, thanks.

But I still have the feeling my cleans sound better with bright on the amp on. I'm not going to do any mods before I've had a chance to gig it a couple of times, but should the need arise, what would be my options for having clean with bright on and OD with it off? (besides reaching around when I go into Robben-mode  Grin)

Without going into technical blabla; lenght determines high content and the RG400 is a very high quality cable.
The connection from the amp to the clator isn't supposed to be that long, the output of the amp and the output of the clator have a high impedance which even in a amp with suitable wire it is normally about 10cm max. Using  long cable or low quality cable is very significant in the high freq. Anyway; hearing is believing. I'm not going back to regular cables.


Aw, now you've made me very curious ;-) Anyway, when you have some time, I'd love to hear about it. Just found a post from a guy with a Quinn 183 who also uses them. Length determines the effect?
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erwin_ve
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2011, 08:35:26 AM »

I'm glad you liked  it. On the cables; I'll PM you.
The FM serie is pretty much good as it is. If you like a brighter sound for your cleans you might wanna try Electrovoice EVM12L speakers.
They have more high content but there is no fizz on the OD. On the other hand this speaker does need some serious time to settle before getting a nice tone.

Erwin; So about two meters from Amp out to Clator and two back. Are you using regular guitar cables for send/return? I guess RG400 cable isn't very flexible.

does the cable brand matter (different values maybe?) I'd like to try it, but I have no idea how to solder jack plugs to that cable... Erm, I actually have no idea how to solder period  Undecided  On that note; If I ask really nice, could I possibly order a set from you Erwin?

Coming back to the amp itself; I tested your recommended settings with a bit more volume last night and was pleasantly surprised! The OD was woody but smooth, the amp went into feedback really nice, I think with a little more hours on the speakers and amp this should turn out really nice! All the bright switches off seems to work for me OD-wise. Raising the presence and opening up the tone controls solved my PAB volume jump as well, thanks.

But I still have the feeling my cleans sound better with bright on the amp on. I'm not going to do any mods before I've had a chance to gig it a couple of times, but should the need arise, what would be my options for having clean with bright on and OD with it off? (besides reaching around when I go into Robben-mode  Grin)

Without going into technical blabla; lenght determines high content and the RG400 is a very high quality cable.
The connection from the amp to the clator isn't supposed to be that long, the output of the amp and the output of the clator have a high impedance which even in a amp with suitable wire it is normally about 10cm max. Using  long cable or low quality cable is very significant in the high freq. Anyway; hearing is believing. I'm not going back to regular cables.


Aw, now you've made me very curious ;-) Anyway, when you have some time, I'd love to hear about it. Just found a post from a guy with a Quinn 183 who also uses them. Length determines the effect?
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