Ceriatone Forum

Hi, first time poster (the netherlands), just became the proud owner of a FM100 head with build-in C-lator, which I'm running into a TT-Cabs "Dumble"cabinet with G12-65 Heritage. Totally stock. Speakers and head are brand new, no burn-in period, so these questions might be premature, I'll ask anyway:

First, I agree with other posters saying the FM is unusable without the C-Lator, harsh and bright. I run the C-lator with the drive on 12 'o clock, first bright off (on is horrible?), In on 12 'o clock, Out low so I can open up the master volume on the amp, and the second bright on. Bright on the amp is also on. Guitars played sofar; PRS HBII, The Paul with T-Top's and Tele with Broadcasters.

Here's a clip if you can stand the noodling, I wasn't really playing, just hitting notes and listening to the way the amp responded ;-) It was recorded with a crappy mike, there's no low end to speak of, but you can sort of make out the good and the bad. This is the PRS HBII by the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXTvR06hv1w

From the few hours of playing I did sofar (sorta bedroom volume), I like the clean; round but spanky. The OD I can't nail yet. I think it's the "fizz" that's bothering me a bit. If I set up the clean the way I like (above settings), I feel there's a little bit too much fizz on the OD. It's better if I turn off the second bright switch on the C-lator, but then the clean suffers. So I guess the questions are:

What part of the amp actually generates this fizz and can something be done?
Can it be done seperately from the clean?
Is there a way to reduce the volume jump of the PAB?

Thanks for any thoughts!

Another dutchy! Best way is to turn off the bright switch on the clator and also turn it off on the amp.
On the amp; master half way up, on the clator; Drive; around 12 '0 clock, In: full clockwise, Out: this is your new master volume.
This will give you a round smooth OD tone on your amp.
If you raise the Presence you can get your tone controls up too; when the tone controls are more clockwise it will give less PAB volume jump. If still not satisfied there are some workarounds by changing some components.

Thanks Erwin! I'll give that a try tonight. What is the relation between presence, tonecontrols and PAB? I thought PAB took the tonecontrols out of the signalpath? Is what you're saying, the more the controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less(?) the gap between non-PAB and PAB?

You're welcome pethenis.
When the presence is more open you can use more bass and mid, especially on the FM series. The presence is working in the high and mid high frequencies.
For normal OTS series the presence is focused around high frequencies only.
Indeed the more the the tone controls are open in "non-pab setting", the less the gap between non-PAB and PAB.

Some other "trick": using RG400 cable for interfacing between amp and clator(don't have time to explain on that fenomenon).

Erwin,  Do you have a source for pre-made cables that you can share, or do we need to build our own?  What's the optimum lengths? Thanks!!!

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Aw, now you've made me very curious ;-) Anyway, when you have some time, I'd love to hear about it. Just found a post from a guy with a Quinn 183 who also uses them. Length determines the effect?

Welcome Pethenis

Do you have external OD trimmer on rear panel? On my FM50 if that is set too high it can be really fizzy. I keep mine set at about 9:00. Anything past 12:00 is unuseable IMO


Todd

Thanks Todd, my trimmer is also set on 9 'o clock. OD-wise I guess I'm looking for a nice sustain/bloom with the least amount of gain I can get away with  :) Gigging volume will help a lot too there I think. I just hope I can fine tune the balance between my cleans (which I like with a bit of glassy topend and just a hint of breakup when I hit it hard) and a nice fluid, warm (dark?) OD. Impossible?

The bright settings on the Clator are useful sometimes, but not as base for your tone. I use them to get certain more clean tones on certain gutiars with certain setting. The bright setting on the Clator with the amp OD is not very good. I will use it sometimes with an OD pedal in fromt of the amp.

Give yourself some time to bond with the amp. It will pan out after some time. And it will change to the better with break in.  :)

Nice playing, BTW


Edit: I read the one post incorrectly and gave the wrong info.

Also, here's a link to the coax in question. I have yet to try this, but plan on it.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/coaxialcableconnectors3.php (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/coaxialcableconnectors3.php)

I'm not aware of any pre made (with jack plugs) Rg400 cable. Optimum lengt is around 2 meters.

Without going into technical blabla; lenght determines high content and the RG400 is a very high quality cable.
The connection from the amp to the clator isn't supposed to be that long, the output of the amp and the output of the clator have a high impedance which even in a amp with suitable wire it is normally about 10cm max. Using  long cable or low quality cable is very significant in the high freq. Anyway; hearing is believing. I'm not going back to regular cables.

10 R-Angle Switchcraft 1/4" plugs and some RG-400 cable coming up!!!!  Two cables will be between the amp and D-lator, with a third also connecting with the rack mount effects unit in the head... Of course the cable runs for the outboard dely too.... Cabling is going to be tough with my rig, so I need to keep things quiet and with minimal loss.  Thanks!

Erwin; So about two meters from Amp out to Clator and two back. Are you using regular guitar cables for send/return? I guess RG400 cable isn't very flexible.

does the cable brand matter (different values maybe?) I'd like to try it, but I have no idea how to solder jack plugs to that cable... Erm, I actually have no idea how to solder period  :-\  On that note; If I ask really nice, could I possibly order a set from you Erwin?

Coming back to the amp itself; I tested your recommended settings with a bit more volume last night and was pleasantly surprised! The OD was woody but smooth, the amp went into feedback really nice, I think with a little more hours on the speakers and amp this should turn out really nice! All the bright switches off seems to work for me OD-wise. Raising the presence and opening up the tone controls solved my PAB volume jump as well, thanks.

But I still have the feeling my cleans sound better with bright on the amp on. I'm not going to do any mods before I've had a chance to gig it a couple of times, but should the need arise, what would be my options for having clean with bright on and OD with it off? (besides reaching around when I go into Robben-mode  ;D)

I'm glad you liked  it. On the cables; I'll PM you.
The FM serie is pretty much good as it is. If you like a brighter sound for your cleans you might wanna try Electrovoice EVM12L speakers.
They have more high content but there is no fizz on the OD. On the other hand this speaker does need some serious time to settle before getting a nice tone.

The new settings sound something like this: http://soundcloud.com/soulrebels/fm100test
Thanks again Erwin

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@Erwin... Would you send me that same info on the RG-400 cables please?  I want to do this rig right.

FYI everyone.  I've had my FM50 ME and C-lator sitting here for a month without the funds to finish.  I've got the cab cut and ready for finger joints (this weekend) and my trannies just arrived yesterday.  All that I need after the trannies is tubes and I'll be able to power up. I hope to get those in the next couple of weeks.  Pictures coming soon.

Cool! Yeah that's unmistakable the sound of the RF amp. Good playing too, I enjoyed listening to it. [/quote]
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Yes that is a great sound and nice playing.Enjoyed listening to that.(As a rock blues player who loves Ford/Carlton.. would enjoy hearing what your doing on the solo scales. Is that more than major scales. Are you changing keys in your solo?Any diminished scales in those solos on the full track?My ear isnt too smart.
Is the FM the only model Nic builds with the C-lator built into the head?
Thanks!!

Thanks! I've actually no idea :-\ my ears are smarter than my brain and fingers. i tend to follow the colors I "hear" in a track, that 's why my fingers are always a bit behind and my timing isn't great. It gets better when I play more (duh). I did have lessons in the past, but I couldn't connect the theory to the playing. As soon as I start playing, my mind goes blank! I also play in a bigband and according to the bandleader the easiest way to have me turn down the volume, is to put a new arrangement in front of me ;-)

This backing is all minor I think, haven't analysed it. There's one bit where a chord steps out a bit. I either ignore it or do my lame version of playing outside; raising whatever I'm playing a halfstep. I haven't mastered that trick yet, as it's very important where and when you step " in and out". Having mastered that, you also have to play it with 100% conviction and then it can sound really cool!

Ah, a man after my own playing style. And very honest, to boot.... ;)

It's interesting how different people are attracted to different tones.

Pethenis, I like the latest clip you posted of your FM100 on the OD channel, but I can't stop listening to the video in your first post. That, to me, is some really awesome tone. So much harmonic content and sounds like it would cut through in any situation. Excellent note definition and chords sound amazing. I have always been more of a fan of the early generation, Lindley tones and am a slide player myself. The tone you were getting before seems to be much more up that alley, more raw. More proof of the versatility of these amps. Great playing, by the way. I can definitely see how the smoother Skyline and Ford associated tones you've found fit your style more than the grainier tones you were getting before.

Last Friday night I tookl the time to make up one of the RG-400 cables and plug it up.  When I played it I didn't really hear a difference. So I made up the second RG-400 cable last night and plugged it. 

WOW!!!!!!!

I was not "loving" the OD at most any setting (before) as it had some "ice pick frequencies" in there, but what a difference now!!!  I know Todd has talked about the "Fizziness" of the OD above about 9:00 on the OD trimmer...  Well I got the trimmer ALL THE WAY UP with NO FIZZINESS.  The OD has all the gain, but no harshness whatsoever... This amp is starting to really sing both due to the wear in and the RG-400 cables.  Cranking the OD trimmer doesn't really add any noticable gain beyond about 12:00, but I did it because I could. ;)

I am a true believer in these RG-400 cables FOR SURE!!!  Nik ought to suggest them on his website.  They will really tame some frequencies on this beast!!!

Some other things I plan on adding to my FM50 ME:  A finished cab...  ;D, a TC Electronic G# (I know it'd be used, so maybe a G Major II), a Suhr Minimix II, an EVM-12L with custom T806 cab, and a Sennheiser E609 (permanently mounted where I want it).  The TC gear will be the last as it will be replacing a Holier Grail and will be used to generate just a few benign delays.  I currently use a Boss DD-20 for all my song specific delays.

Pictures will be posted when I have some cab photos too....

BTW, thanks everyone for the help in making this a reality!!

Glad to hear you're finding tonal bliss.  ;)  So did you wire up the RG-400 cables using regular quarter inch plugs? And when you said you just had one cable at first, what part of the loop was this? What are the lengths that you are using? I'm interested in doing this, but haven't found enough inspiration to go about actually buying the needed supplies. Thanks for any advice.  8)

I bought extra cable just to have some extra, so I made the second cable longer.  I have a 6' and a 12' cable.  After the first one seemed to do NOTHING MUCH, I used all the cable I had for the other side... I got some Switchcraft right angle 1/4" (gold) plugs from Mouser.  I coiled cable up in 8"+/- coils. The cable came from an aircraft supplier I found on the web.

The cable is TOUGH STUFF.  Be real careful stripping it with conventional strippers. Also pre-tin carefully so as to be flexible where it needs to be...

The two cables go from the amp to the C-lator and back again.  Not to and from the effects themselves.

I think the single cable I'd made up went from the amp to the C-lator...

Where can I get this RG-400 cable?

I got it here: http://www.steinair.com/wire.htm (http://www.steinair.com/wire.htm)

Thanks for the detailed info. I forgot to check back with this thread.  Thanks for the link to another supplier. I like their website.  :D They have a nice selection of wire and cable for decent prices