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Author Topic: How Fender can the OTS get?  (Read 47335 times)
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2008, 12:09:24 PM »

How does an Overtone sound??? does it deliver fender cleans?

You gotta include the guitar and speakers in the answer to that question. Type of speaker has been discussed above, which leaves guitar and pickup to be described.

Guitar/pickup use
When I use a strat (fender 54'pickups) or a tele (Vintage RI 52' pickups), I use the neck or bridge pickup for lead and the middle positions (2 +4 on at strat, 2 on a tele) for the rythm sounds.

The middle postions are "scooped" whereas the neck/bridge are more mid boosted,  which help me create the sounds I need.

When I play rythm, I don't want the guitar compete with the singer voice or other bandmembers playin solos. The scooped middle positions heop me to take a step back in the sonic picture. Wise versa when engaging a solo I wish to fill in the space that the singer or soloist just obtained, the neck or bridge positions help me fill up a little more space.

This is how I do it, no matter what amp I play !

Overtone versus fender
When you buy an Overtone/dumble you're probably inspired by Robben Ford and wish to recreate the RF sounds. And the Overtone does indeed provide thaose sounds. However, I have seen RF playing in Copenhagen a number of times and often he don't even bring his Dumbles overseas, but play rental Fender twins plus a tubescreamer for solo. Fender amps (super, twin, deluxe, bandmaster etc) in general have scooped mids (like the middle positions on your guitar), which tend to lag a little middle for solo. The tubescreamer fills in the space by giving a pronounced midboost. So if you wnat real fender cleans and a RF/dumblesque OD tone use a twin with a tubescreamer Wink

The Dumble/overtones on the other hand has much more middle - they're much more flat frequency wise and not scooped like fenders. Therefore, I find that in order to get a unmodified, regular Overtone to produce fender tones, you have to do engage the bright AND turn the middle down to 1-2 and use the clean channel.

I've experimented a lot with my Overtone to resolve this puzzle and have settled for the following modifications to give me both good (sort of fender) clean sounds and at the same time nice rounded OD tones:

- a 47pf on the (input) volume
- change the bright cap to 47 pf
- a 39pf on the master volume
- increase the snubbers to 2 x 470pf
- add a 2nf+470k trimmer across the OD ratio (od master vol), which lets you reduce the OD treble
- maybe add a 4,7M resistor and a 47nF capacitor to the input of the OD, just before the 220k

And use the following settings with a strat or tele:
Volume 7, bright off, mid off, rock on, treble 5, mid 5, bass 5, gain level 7, ratio 5, master any, prec 6,

And the following with a Les Paul
Volume 4, bright on, mid off, rock on, treble 6, mid 5, bass 4, gain level 5, ratio 5, master any, prec 7,

As I've said, you'll get both excellent cleans and very nice OD
- off course you have to adjust some of the od treble off on the cap/trim mounting on OD ratio control
- If the bottom end of the sounds gets too fuzzy in OD mode, you might add the Gill Ayan mod to the OD channel, which is adding a 4,7M resistor and a 47nF capacitor to the input of the OD, just before the 220k.

I use either a single 1x12" Celestion 12G65 or a 2x12" Celestion both with oval hole in the back.

IMHO this setup in combination with using your pickups as described above will provide great RF/Blues tones.


I don't think the assumption that everyone looking at buying a Dumble type amp are looking for a RF sound is accurate. I'd never heard of him until I stumbled on this place after researching the OTS. Personally I'm more interested in the tones created using Dumbles (and D-type amps) by SRV, John Mayer, Matt Schofield, Jo Bonamassa. RF never came into it.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, just gets to me sometimes how into RF a lot of people on here are...

That said, thanks for the advice on mods to the OTS to tweak it closer to Blackface tones...

Totally agree with you, and the varity of artists you qoute, proofs that Dumble/OTS amps are truely versatile and not for amateurs - (unlike us ;-))

I think even Robben Ford is tired of attention from people who, almost like cannibals, wants to capture his sound and thereby misses the point of digging his art instead. So Robben Ford gets a lot of attention for all the wrong reasons on these forums. I'm kind of guilty because I often refer to the RF sound  Embarrassed

IMHO Robben Ford is insteresting because he has a truely personal voice - both vocally and guitar wise
 - like Coletrane, Hendrix or Miles.


 
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hywelg
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« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2008, 03:22:13 PM »

AdrianJ you're spot on the money. I bought an ODS simply because I can't justify (to myself) or afford a Two Rock. When I first heard Matt Schofield I was blown away by his 'tone'. I like RF, but his tone, for solos anyway, is much more heavily overdriven, Matt Schofield has much less drive going on even when using pedal in front of the OD channel of his TR CRS.

My immediate problem and thanks bluesfendermanblues for those suggestions and insight into why the Ceriatone version is different from a Fender, is one of 'so many mods which will do what I want' but your list gives me somehwere to start. I added a 68pf across the MV and that got me some of the way there, but has made the OD too raspy. I need to do the 47pf across the input volume and I hope the change to the 470pf snubbers will then calm things down enough.

I haven't emailed Nik since I know he's busy but I was wondering if it would be possible to switch the MV cap out of circuit with the OD relay, that would be an easy way of negating that change when in OD. I'm afraid I'm struggling to understand the relay switching from the layout, so any help appreciated.

I have thought about taking it to a tech to do a custom voicing on it for me but having built it I really want to work this through on my own, hopefully learning something in the process.
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hywelg
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« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2008, 06:31:27 PM »

Thanks gentlemen for listening.
Yes it is Gibson L6-S with a scalloped neck.
But on the samples I was using a strat with Dimarzio Heavy Blues noiseless pickups.
Settings: Bright UP, vol-5 mid-5 bass-6 master-4 pres-5
Speakers are Celestion G12 Century. They are bright speakers.
Here are more samples how Overtone does Plexi and Hi gain tones.

Plexi - http://www.guitarampcab.com/cplexi.mp3  - fenfer neck pickup

Hi gain - http://www.guitarampcab.com/chign.mp3 - gibson bridge humbucker

Enjoy 


DId indeed. In fact from your bio I found your site and your OTS looks marvellous in blue. Have a look guys!

http://www.drika.biz/amps.html

You mention that you modded your amp quite a bit car to share which mods you did? I'm keen to improve the clarity and sparkle of my clean tone and your clean clip nails it nicely whilst being able to get that lovely plexi crunch without any harshness.
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cadsy48
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« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2008, 06:55:16 PM »


I don't think the assumption that everyone looking at buying a Dumble type amp are looking for a RF sound is accurate. I'd never heard of him until I stumbled on this place after researching the OTS. Personally I'm more interested in the tones created using Dumbles (and D-type amps) by SRV, John Mayer, Matt Schofield, Jo Bonamassa. RF never came into it.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, just gets to me sometimes how into RF a lot of people on here are...

That said, thanks for the advice on mods to the OTS to tweak it closer to Blackface tones...

Totally Agree....Im much more interested in the blues-man side of the amp rather than the traditional RF sounds...
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2008, 07:26:29 PM »


I don't think the assumption that everyone looking at buying a Dumble type amp are looking for a RF sound is accurate. I'd never heard of him until I stumbled on this place after researching the OTS. Personally I'm more interested in the tones created using Dumbles (and D-type amps) by SRV, John Mayer, Matt Schofield, Jo Bonamassa. RF never came into it.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, just gets to me sometimes how into RF a lot of people on here are...

That said, thanks for the advice on mods to the OTS to tweak it closer to Blackface tones...

Totally Agree....Im much more interested in the blues-man side of the amp rather than the traditional RF sounds...


For the blusier side of D-style amps please check these links:

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5541

http://www.redplateamps.com/

This man is totally into the blues styles of D-amps, check out his clips at http://www.redplateamps.com/

He posted most of the mods that I've used in my amp!!
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AdrianJ
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« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2008, 04:02:10 AM »

Thanks gentlemen for listening.
Yes it is Gibson L6-S with a scalloped neck.
But on the samples I was using a strat with Dimarzio Heavy Blues noiseless pickups.
Settings: Bright UP, vol-5 mid-5 bass-6 master-4 pres-5
Speakers are Celestion G12 Century. They are bright speakers.
Here are more samples how Overtone does Plexi and Hi gain tones.

Plexi - http://www.guitarampcab.com/cplexi.mp3  - fenfer neck pickup

Hi gain - http://www.guitarampcab.com/chign.mp3 - gibson bridge humbucker

Enjoy 


DId indeed. In fact from your bio I found your site and your OTS looks marvellous in blue. Have a look guys!

http://www.drika.biz/amps.html

You mention that you modded your amp quite a bit car to share which mods you did? I'm keen to improve the clarity and sparkle of my clean tone and your clean clip nails it nicely whilst being able to get that lovely plexi crunch without any harshness.

Wow....indeed your OTS does look sweet in blue...makes me want to completely reconsider what look I want to go for when I get one...maybe something like yours, but I'm thinking dark red tolex... hmm...
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cadsy48
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« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2008, 04:29:29 AM »

Quote from: bluesfendermanblues link=topic=527.msg4366#msg4366

For the blusier side of D-style amps please check these links:


oh dear me!!! thanks for that!! this guys clean tone made me get goosebumps at one point! its like a mix between a blackface and some sort of BB king tone, my god thats hard to beat Cheesy

can your OTS hit that?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 04:32:16 AM by cadsy48 » Logged
hywelg
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« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2008, 04:31:36 AM »

Wow....indeed your OTS does look sweet in blue...makes me want to completely reconsider what look I want to go for when I get one...maybe something like yours, but I'm thinking dark red tolex... hmm...

I tried very hard to find dark red tolex in the UK , like Cornford colour, couldn't find any anywhere, plenty of that two tone Boogie style wine red but I wasn't keen on that. Ended up with something called leathercloth, looks nice but doesn't glue very well, apparently due to the fibre backing being nylon as opposed to cotton. Its also a bit too stretchy, the hard, less stretchy vinyl is best.  If you do find any I'd appreciate knowing where to get it from. If you are buying mail order do get a sample first it surprising what some people think they can pass off as 'Tolex'!
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2008, 04:48:07 AM »

Quote from: bluesfendermanblues link=topic=527.msg4366#msg4366

For the blusier side of D-style amps please check these links:


oh dear me!!! thanks for that!! this guys clean tone made me get goosebumps at one point! its like a mix between a blackface and some sort of BB king tone, my god thats hard to beat Cheesy

can your OTS hit that?

You should check the ampage link, which gives the full story.
The amp is NOT clean ;-)
Its a Blackface style preamp, with a dumble OD. The amp is switched to OD all the time. The player is Tim Betts (cousin of Dicky Betts, ex. Allman Brothers).

The mods I've presented above - and done to my Overtone - gives the exact same tone.
Glad you like the clip
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 02:14:16 AM by bluesfendermanblues » Logged

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Pickmaster
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« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2008, 12:02:25 PM »

Hi guys,

Thanks again for kind words.
I will post my OTS mods soon in details. They are different than mods (layout) on ceriatone site. Overtone is a fantastic amp (A.H. Dumble is genius) because it is so easy to modify for players taste.
Meanwhile check this site out especially if you are in UK and looking for tolex or custom cab for the head or speakers.
OTS - http://www.guitarampcab.com/overtone.html

and home page www.customcabcom.com

Cheers 
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hywelg
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« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2008, 02:57:51 PM »

Hi guys,

Thanks again for kind words.
I will post my OTS mods soon in details. They are different than mods (layout) on ceriatone site. Overtone is a fantastic amp (A.H. Dumble is genius) because it is so easy to modify for players taste.
Meanwhile check this site out especially if you are in UK and looking for tolex or custom cab for the head or speakers.
OTS - http://www.guitarampcab.com/overtone.html

and home page www.customcabcom.com

Cheers 


Just mentioned your exotic tolex examples at CCC in another thread. Fab or what!
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Pickmaster
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« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2008, 05:24:55 PM »

Cheers mate, they really look cool.
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cadsy48
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« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2008, 02:01:53 AM »



The amp is NOT clean ;-)



oops yeh sorry should've clarified, i mean the tone in the middle of the clip that has just a smidgen of OD, just enough to get that classic break up when picked with force Wink
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2008, 05:07:08 AM »

I only mention it out of respect for Hiestl alias RedPlateAmps.com ;-)
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cadsy48
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« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2008, 08:15:49 PM »

haha fair enough!
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