Ceriatone Forum

Okay, so I know this has been a little bit if a otuchy subject in previous threads, but it's something I really want to know the answer to.

The versatility of the OTS is not in question, it does some exceptional Dumble tones (as you would expect), but I've been told by a few sources that it can also do Fender Blackface and Tweed tones, but I have yet to hear any samples that really show this off. (As an aside, someone on here also suggested that it can get close to Marshall tones, but I'm sceptical about that).

I'm hoping that someone would be kind enough to show off this side of the OTS. Not because it will make me decide whether or not to buy an OTS, I've already decided that, but rather help me decide what other amp I intend to buy to compliment the OTS. I want to be able to get Blackface type Fender sounds from my setup, but if the OTS can get close then I won't see the need to buy one and will go for a Marshall amp. However if the OTS can't get close to Blackface fender tones, then I'll choose a Fender as my 2nd amp...

Thanks for your help...

HAHA dont go there mate, take it from me

Man, if you already decided to get this amp than wait up until you do and then decide about your next amp.

then  can someone give the proper answer to it then instead of saying "wait until you get the amp" because i certainly won't be getting the amp unless i get that information straight to the point.

If you want Fender get a Fender. The overtone has nice cleans but more mids and lows than a Fender. Definitely more sustain than any Fender I've played. If you really want Fender the overtone is not for you.

Cat

I'll let you know in a couple of weeks. Got my overtone arriving soon. (It just arrived !) in bits package 2.

I have a BF Vibrolux 2x10 and an old AC-30 to compare.

I'm hoping that it will be able to cover the bases of these amps clean sound. Not clone them but have a clean sound that is usable but different. Its clean sound is of primary importance to me.

Speakers will make a huge difference, A celestion v's a jensen will change your sound and 10" v's 12" will too.

Early Marshalls are a bassman style circuit. The speakers and cab used has allot to do with the character of these amps. I shopped around for AC-30s years ago I found that the Blue/sliver speakers in the old amps gave the vox sound. The re-issues with greenbacks at the time didn't sound right.

I think find where the Overtone sits sound wise first. Play it, gig with it, find a speaker you like with it. Then find a amp that will fill the hole. Could be even be something like an AC-15, Matchless, or  trainwreck.

Last note on the Fender sound. A tweed deluxe is a completely different sound to a twinreverb and the new "hotrod" Blues Jr style amps are a different thing again.
You can't compare apples and oranges. From my understanding you can't even compare 2 *umbles.

What would be nice, is to get an insight into is how these  *umble style amps are changed to suit different players.
Nick

Not much to say other than I use the Overtone for dirt and a 73 SF Super Reverb for cleans.  However, if I could switch channels in the Overtone (on the fly) without adjusting the tonestack I would be using the one amp. 

OK just for the record...

I played my Overtone next to SF Twin Reverb, next to DRRI and my moded 5E3.

I always wanted a Twin but 'cause it's such a heavy animal I always decided against it. Once I heard my Overtone next to that Twin my Twin GAS stoped right there. Does it sound just like Twin, no it doesn't but it's close enough if you ask me.
Regarding Tweed Deluxe sound the story is similar. With the deep switch on and some tone stack tweaking you can get close. Just for the record, I'm using a Greenback with my 5E3 and a G12-65 with my Overtone. The difference is still there, 5E3 is much more focused and a mid hump is a little different but hey, sound is in the fingers isn't it.

 ;D

that's just great to hear. weeeeee i'm soo looking forward to saving up money for that.

Heres a question:

how does the OTS go when you dial in a nice clean tone and put a pedal like a tubescreamer or something to that effect in front of it? has anyone here done this? how does it sound?

i say this because i think you would get a completely different overdriven sound to the one produed on the OD channel, but im curious as to what it would be like...

I'm using Xotic RC & BB and TS-9 with it and it works just fine. OTS takes pedals very well.

Cool thanks man, i thought it might

how would you describe the sort of sounds it throws out?? in the theme of this thread, would you be confident in being able to dial this sort of stuff in whilst using the clean channel through one of those pedals?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HX75CrJHxI

OK I'm going to make a bold statement here, 'cause I don't know what amp this guy used...
Regarding gain structure I see no problem, I guess a good old TS9 will do just fine but the sound from OTS would probably be more mellower. This amp sound very bright to me, almost harsh at times (but that's probably youtube sound quality). OTS is not like that, it's much smother IMHO.

 ;)

that makes sense the OTS is probably known for smoothing out....

as far as im aware the amp in that clip is a deville 4x10, so a loud tweed fender, which is where that harshness comes from, the "twangy" clean that the amp would produce without the pedal is just amplified, to create that harshness...

Hey where's marin on this thread? :)

I just finished an amp building three day course and now I have decided to build my overtone when I have the money to get the kit,  a challenge that will keep me out of trouble!

Hey
why not use a podxt. It has all those sounds ;-). I know... I own serveral. LOL I gues in here that's blasphemy hehe. Luckily Scott Lerner had used one as well so I'm ni good company.


I must say I found ChrisL's answer a bit worrying. I am used to switching from a clean sound to an overdrive sound. The thought that the single tone stack is to limited for that, bothers me alot. I have ordered a Wampler Ecstacy to go with the new amp. I'll keep you posted.
It's (almost?) my turn to get my OTS so....

Do not worry Steven...lol.  The OT's tone stack is far from limited. In fact, it is quite the opposite case.  I play strats and teles pretty much exclusively and tend to lean towards the Philip Sayce kind of groove and sound (in my mind at least).  If I were to use the Overtone for clean and dirty I would need a switch that simutaneously toggles the bright, and mid-boost with the channel switch.  Not to mention I still don't actually have a footswitch....lol.....I got one of the first OT's.
 That's fine though as I have always used an a/b rig for shows and it's what I'm used to.   Plus, I love the contrast between this combination of quality amps.

Okay, so I'm starting to get a clearer picture of the sort of cleans the OTS will produce and it's a good one!!

My next question is: would it be possible to tweak the amp to get the sort of cleans produced by a *umble Six String Slinger?? (Let's ignore for a minute that this would also impact the OD sounds)...

Reason I ask is that I'm now contemplating a change of mindset and thinking that 2 OTS' might not be a bad thing, one optimised for clean and one for OD....

Hey Chris

well I'm used to my PODXT setup it's very very versitile in that respect.

Good tip Didn't know Philip Sayce yet> Nice sound too.

So I can see you really want to try and hit that SRV tone!

he used a dumble but the SSS wasnt really like the ODS, as im sure you know it just got louder and stayed clean!

there is a company that made dumble clones called mystique...theres not alot of them around but they made one suited to hitting that SRV tone...and from what ive heard it hits it damn good!  im guessing there is a schematic around for it, maybe if you emailed nik and begged politely he might consider throwing it together for you as like a modified OTS? but thats just speculation he may be way too busy to even contemplate something like that :P

alternatively you could just buy the overtone for the Dstyle amp and the mystique for the SRV style dumble! (if you can find one)

Not so much the SRV tone as a certain other SSS user who also uses T** R*** amps (I think you know who I mean)...

Little Fenderish sound sample on OTS!
http://www.drika.biz/cclean.mp3
Strat - OTS - 2x12 CCC - PC
Hope you like it ;D

Cheers

Nice tones indeed pickmaster.  They possess the depth of tone of a good Fender amp but with something a little more. Very nice and rich.

Btw, is that your L6-S in your avatar?  I had one back in the mid to late 70s.  It played like a dream.

Thanks again.

Pickmaster,

Thanks, exactly the kind of sample I've been looking for!! Confirmed in my mind that the OTS is the amp for me...just need to sell my current amp to have the funds for one...

Just for reference, what settings did you have the amp set at in that clip and what speakers are in your cab?

Cheers

How does an Overtone sound??? does it deliver fender cleans?

You gotta include the guitar and speakers in the answer to that question. Type of speaker has been discussed above, which leaves guitar and pickup to be described.

Guitar/pickup use
When I use a strat (fender 54'pickups) or a tele (Vintage RI 52' pickups), I use the neck or bridge pickup for lead and the middle positions (2 +4 on at strat, 2 on a tele) for the rythm sounds.

The middle postions are "scooped" whereas the neck/bridge are more mid boosted,  which help me create the sounds I need.

When I play rythm, I don't want the guitar compete with the singer voice or other bandmembers playin solos. The scooped middle positions heop me to take a step back in the sonic picture. Wise versa when engaging a solo I wish to fill in the space that the singer or soloist just obtained, the neck or bridge positions help me fill up a little more space.

This is how I do it, no matter what amp I play !

Overtone versus fender
When you buy an Overtone/dumble you're probably inspired by Robben Ford and wish to recreate the RF sounds. And the Overtone does indeed provide thaose sounds. However, I have seen RF playing in Copenhagen a number of times and often he don't even bring his Dumbles overseas, but play rental Fender twins plus a tubescreamer for solo. Fender amps (super, twin, deluxe, bandmaster etc) in general have scooped mids (like the middle positions on your guitar), which tend to lag a little middle for solo. The tubescreamer fills in the space by giving a pronounced midboost. So if you wnat real fender cleans and a RF/dumblesque OD tone use a twin with a tubescreamer ;)

The Dumble/overtones on the other hand has much more middle - they're much more flat frequency wise and not scooped like fenders. Therefore, I find that in order to get a unmodified, regular Overtone to produce fender tones, you have to do engage the bright AND turn the middle down to 1-2 and use the clean channel.

I've experimented a lot with my Overtone to resolve this puzzle and have settled for the following modifications to give me both good (sort of fender) clean sounds and at the same time nice rounded OD tones:

- a 47pf on the (input) volume
- change the bright cap to 47 pf
- a 39pf on the master volume
- increase the snubbers to 2 x 470pf
- add a 2nf+470k trimmer across the OD ratio (od master vol), which lets you reduce the OD treble
- maybe add a 4,7M resistor and a 47nF capacitor to the input of the OD, just before the 220k

And use the following settings with a strat or tele:
Volume 7, bright off, mid off, rock on, treble 5, mid 5, bass 5, gain level 7, ratio 5, master any, prec 6,

And the following with a Les Paul
Volume 4, bright on, mid off, rock on, treble 6, mid 5, bass 4, gain level 5, ratio 5, master any, prec 7,

As I've said, you'll get both excellent cleans and very nice OD
- off course you have to adjust some of the od treble off on the cap/trim mounting on OD ratio control
- If the bottom end of the sounds gets too fuzzy in OD mode, you might add the Gill Ayan mod to the OD channel, which is adding a 4,7M resistor and a 47nF capacitor to the input of the OD, just before the 220k.

I use either a single 1x12" Celestion 12G65 or a 2x12" Celestion both with oval hole in the back.

IMHO this setup in combination with using your pickups as described above will provide great RF/Blues tones.

Thanks gentlemen for listening.
Yes it is Gibson L6-S with a scalloped neck.
But on the samples I was using a strat with Dimarzio Heavy Blues noiseless pickups.
Settings: Bright UP, vol-5 mid-5 bass-6 master-4 pres-5
Speakers are Celestion G12 Century. They are bright speakers.
Here are more samples how Overtone does Plexi and Hi gain tones.

Plexi - http://www.guitarampcab.com/cplexi.mp3  - fender neck pickup

Hi gain - http://www.guitarampcab.com/chign.mp3 - gibson bridge humbucker

Enjoy 

Pickmaster......


THANK YOU!!!!

this side of the amp was a myth until now....

ive heard how its cleans are amazing and glassy like a blackface and can really hit that traditional blues tone.  but none of the soundclips (bar one or two using special boost pedals) exemplify that side of the amp until you posted this.


tell nik to give you a present, you have just made him at least one more sale when the time is right to spend the money...

Oh baby, you kick serious ass  8)

I don't think the assumption that everyone looking at buying a Dumble type amp are looking for a RF sound is accurate. I'd never heard of him until I stumbled on this place after researching the OTS. Personally I'm more interested in the tones created using Dumbles (and D-type amps) by SRV, John Mayer, Matt Schofield, Jo Bonamassa. RF never came into it.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, just gets to me sometimes how into RF a lot of people on here are...

That said, thanks for the advice on mods to the OTS to tweak it closer to Blackface tones...

Totally agree with you, and the varity of artists you qoute, proofs that Dumble/OTS amps are truely versatile and not for amateurs - (unlike us ;-))

I think even Robben Ford is tired of attention from people who, almost like cannibals, wants to capture his sound and thereby misses the point of digging his art instead. So Robben Ford gets a lot of attention for all the wrong reasons on these forums. I'm kind of guilty because I often refer to the RF sound  :-[

IMHO Robben Ford is insteresting because he has a truely personal voice - both vocally and guitar wise
 - like Coletrane, Hendrix or Miles.


 

AdrianJ you're spot on the money. I bought an ODS simply because I can't justify (to myself) or afford a Two Rock. When I first heard Matt Schofield I was blown away by his 'tone'. I like RF, but his tone, for solos anyway, is much more heavily overdriven, Matt Schofield has much less drive going on even when using pedal in front of the OD channel of his TR CRS.

My immediate problem and thanks bluesfendermanblues for those suggestions and insight into why the Ceriatone version is different from a Fender, is one of 'so many mods which will do what I want' but your list gives me somehwere to start. I added a 68pf across the MV and that got me some of the way there, but has made the OD too raspy. I need to do the 47pf across the input volume and I hope the change to the 470pf snubbers will then calm things down enough.

I haven't emailed Nik since I know he's busy but I was wondering if it would be possible to switch the MV cap out of circuit with the OD relay, that would be an easy way of negating that change when in OD. I'm afraid I'm struggling to understand the relay switching from the layout, so any help appreciated.

I have thought about taking it to a tech to do a custom voicing on it for me but having built it I really want to work this through on my own, hopefully learning something in the process.

DId indeed. In fact from your bio I found your site and your OTS looks marvellous in blue. Have a look guys!

http://www.drika.biz/amps.html (http://www.drika.biz/amps.html)

You mention that you modded your amp quite a bit car to share which mods you did? I'm keen to improve the clarity and sparkle of my clean tone and your clean clip nails it nicely whilst being able to get that lovely plexi crunch without any harshness.

Totally Agree....Im much more interested in the blues-man side of the amp rather than the traditional RF sounds...

For the blusier side of D-style amps please check these links:

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5541
http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=34850007
http://www.redplateamps.com/

This man is totally into the blues styles of D-amps, check out his clips at http://www.redplateamps.com/

He posted most of the mods that I've used in my amp!!

Wow....indeed your OTS does look sweet in blue...makes me want to completely reconsider what look I want to go for when I get one...maybe something like yours, but I'm thinking dark red tolex... hmm...

oh dear me!!! thanks for that!! this guys clean tone made me get goosebumps at one point! its like a mix between a blackface and some sort of BB king tone, my god thats hard to beat :D

can your OTS hit that?

I tried very hard to find dark red tolex in the UK , like Cornford colour, couldn't find any anywhere, plenty of that two tone Boogie style wine red but I wasn't keen on that. Ended up with something called leathercloth, looks nice but doesn't glue very well, apparently due to the fibre backing being nylon as opposed to cotton. Its also a bit too stretchy, the hard, less stretchy vinyl is best.  If you do find any I'd appreciate knowing where to get it from. If you are buying mail order do get a sample first it surprising what some people think they can pass off as 'Tolex'!

You should check the ampage link, which gives the full story.
The amp is NOT clean ;-)
Its a Blackface style preamp, with a dumble OD. The amp is switched to OD all the time. The player is Tim Betts (cousin of Dicky Betts, ex. Allman Brothers).

The mods I've presented above - and done to my Overtone - gives the exact same tone.
Glad you like the clip

Hi guys,

Thanks again for kind words.
I will post my OTS mods soon in details. They are different than mods (layout) on ceriatone site. Overtone is a fantastic amp (A.H. Dumble is genius) because it is so easy to modify for players taste.
Meanwhile check this site out especially if you are in UK and looking for tolex or custom cab for the head or speakers.
OTS - http://www.guitarampcab.com/overtone.html

and home page www.customcabcom.com

Cheers 

Just mentioned your exotic tolex examples at CCC in another thread. Fab or what!

Cheers mate, they really look cool.

oops yeh sorry should've clarified, i mean the tone in the middle of the clip that has just a smidgen of OD, just enough to get that classic break up when picked with force ;)

I only mention it out of respect for Hiestl alias RedPlateAmps.com ;-)

haha fair enough!

Hey pickmaster just a quick question, is the bright switch on the amp in those first three clips on your page? or do you just have a really heavy string attack because the amp sounds "chirpy" as the strings are just hit....

that drive + boost clip is the most impressive for me, but are you able to get that without some of the initial "chirpiness" when the strings are hit?? i know i sound vague but i really cant describe what i mean hahaha

Hi,

My bright capacitor is just 47pf, it adds just a proper amount of highs.
“Chirpiness” comes probably from 3mm thick Big Stabby pick. I play with a light attack but pick adds chirpiness, same if you use metal coin as a pick.

3mm that is damn thick haha, and would explain it. cheers mate :)

I also wondered about the initial query in this thread.  About how Fender can the amp get?

I have owned several Fender tube amps and currently have both a DRRI and Concert in my home.   

The Overtone is pretty close to Fendery with what I am doing now.  Mild amount of overdrive, bright on rock on.  Treble 5, Mid maybe 1, Bass 5-6.5 to taste.  Gain 5 from trem set at about 9 to 9:30.  Mid boost off.  Klein plus Hollygrail reverb.  The Hall setting actually sounds more like Spring Reverb on my Fenders than does its Spring Reverb setting.

The difference in tone is the compression sound of the Overtone, my Fender concert sounds much the same as what I have described if I use a compressor and FD2 with it.  But the Overtone does get close and has some very nice sounds.  I haven't played Little Wing in quite some time the search for that tone brought it out of me.

Very useful and responsive to picking techniques.  Does well with the SRV, Hendrix type playing.

My cab...8ohm Avatar 2X12 combo Celestion Vintage 30 and G12H30.

Pretty doggone close.  My son works sound for a very large church with multiple services over several days so he knows his sound.  He agreed it is very Fendery in quality.  But it goes farther in other ways, much farther.  While I have found the higher gains sound much better on my LP the light gain stuff and chord work is superb on my strat.  (It has Kinman AVN blues pups n the neck and middle.)