I reread my quote here, and I don't see anything that doesn't address and concur with what you said.  Of course, scratch builds ARE time consuming, that's why a kit is appropriate.  The problem lies in the people who are inbetween, in both skill and time available to build an amp. 

If you are referring to the board assembly comment I made, I'm referring to the soldering.  I did that every afternoon, five days a week, for a year and a half while finishing my degree.  The soldering isn't a problem.  I have a number of BOM's that people have graciously posted that will make any eventual order MUCH EASIER to get together.  Not EASY or QUICK, but better than starting completely from scratch. I'm not diminishing at all what it takes to build an amp.

Thank you Nik for chiming in, and doing so as to not yell at everyone taking such liberties with YOUR BUSINESS... 

That does sound like a win/win, Nik.  Too many models, too many options, too many optional components... It has to become a nightmare at some point.  Maybe it did already!!!!

You shouldn't try to provide everything for scratch builders, but for those looking to build from a "kit" mentality.  People that can do some of it, but don't feel they can do it all (yet). Some might not have time (likfe me) to go get everything.  Personally, I think a board + assembly minus the trannies, tubes, and cab is a pretty reasonable compromise.  I'd say the board assembly would be a snap for me, but that is because of my experience.  Everything else will take some more care in my builds because that is where I have less experience.

If a customer wants to do more work, they need to provide more of the parts too.  (Personally, if I didn't build at least 90% of it, I would be concerned about having my name on it.  A subpar build by a novice doesn't help business.) If somebody is ready for a scratch build, they can get most of the stuff domestically for the same price or less after everything is factored in.  Ceriatone is selling its name (reputation), its know how, its quality component selection, and its build quality.  You give some of that away (more and more) the closer it gets to a scratch build.

If you try to do too many versions of the amp line as kits, I think it would become total chaos...

Yeah, I'm in the club, but it'll be a few weeks before I can do anything much with it.  I just got a big job in that'll keep me busy for a bit, and then I've got several music projects that require attention over a couple week stretch.

I'm building cabs too, so it is a little bit more involved.

I agree with Sonicmojo...

Nik has goals for his business, which is HIS business.  He went from all kinds of kit models to a limited option on those models... I'd prefer far fewer models offered as kits (5 or 6?), but keep the full range of level of completion for THOSE models available.  We don't need 27 flavors of the same amp custom packaged.  One standard amp of X, and then a "mods" package for it that is totally separate.  Restrict the support available.  Kits for a Marshall, a Fender, a TW, a Dumble, and a Matchless.  One kit each.  With the OTS, you offer an "off the shelf" power amp upgrade and voice option upgrades.  If Nik is doing Package 1, with assembly, then the trannies aren't included anyway.  Same with the kits.... The Trannies are a major component in cost and weight, which are often left out anyway.  He's got the standard bags of parts he puts in a box with the chassis, boards, and faceplate.  If he puts an extra bag or two of parts in there for the custom aspects of it, these two bags can also be pre-packaged "off the shelf" upgrades.  It's up to the kit builder to know what to omit and replace.

Yes, people have to leave out parts and buy some things twice, but that's the cost of "getting what you want".  Nik shouldn't have to micro-engineer each amp so much.  There's a price for that, and it isn't just the customer charge, it's the fact that he isn't doing something else that would generate extra and residual revenue.

I think Nik is managing a growing business and is figuring it all out as he goes along.  It's my hope that he comes up with a few specific kits, an option of Package 1 with assembly for a number of models, and a complete build on others.  That's my hope, but it isn't my business.

If so, then it is likely that "adjustments" in the level of completion of the products will likely be made.

It is surprising to me that the "kit provider" with the best reputation on the net (from what I found) isn't going to a kit provider in the future, but we don't see what Nik does day to day.  A fairly small percentage of his business may be kits while the builders monopolize his time... He may be absolutely right from the business side.

I think that the forum was populated primarily by builders.  If builders aren't "family" anymore, they will congregate with other builders elsewhere.... Nik isn't just doing a business adjustment, he's doing a culture adjustment.  The builder's culture isn't going to be a focus anymore.

I'm a former machinist (in the 80's), I've worked with wood on a number of quaity projects, and I did electronics assembly (with some design) in the 90's... I can scratch build an amp given the time to do the research and educate myself. Builders will still be builders.

Ceriatone has (and had) a good reputation for service and quality.  I wanted to build a kit and they were the best option by far.  Of course, they changed their policies about kits at about the same time!!!  As a builder, they may not be the best option in the future as I may go completely with a scratch build rather than trying to split hairs over how they are supporting/selling their products.

Amplifiers are a tool to me, not just something I use as part of a hobby.  Building them is a hobby that'll give me great tools to use... Win/Win... The knowledge is available for building the amps, but the idea of a kit with a safety net was very appealing when I did my research.  It still is, but I'm not going to do another build until next year, unless people start asking me to build them amps... It's happened with plenty of other things, so I wouldn't be surprised.

I check in regularly, but it is just SO SLOW around here.  I'll post more when my stuff is HERE in a matter of DAYS!!!

We'll see how this poll goes....

FM50 ME and C-Lator in transit as of today...

Officially joining the club very, very soon.

If I had to replace what I've got, I'd go with the MXR 10 band.  I currently use the Boss GE-7 (I know, Boss... Ugh!), but the price was right, mopney was tight, and it isn't too bad.  I don't think I'd buy it again, but for $10 it was worth it. 

I don't hate all Boss pedals, but I haven'tfound too many I like.  This is about the only one I'm OK with.  If it is modulation or OD, I run away from Boss and old school Digitech.  I've heard some good things about the Digitech Hardwire line.  I haven't heard of a Digitech Hardwire EQ, though...

It often works out that the old adage "You get what you pay for" rings true... Unless you really do your homework and buy Ceriatone...

Do I get free stuff for a comment like that? 

A guy at my church has an Ampeg Jet II around for a back up amp.  The thing has almost no clean headroom.  IT doesn't get used much because it is such a limited amp.

I have the best solution for low volume I've found yet.  Though I hate pedals, I have to use them for what I play (contemporary Praise and Worship).  A truly good OD pedal (NOT a Tube Screamer, which is far inferior to my OCD and Zendrive 1), a good compressor sustainer, and a decent guitar eq pedal will do all you want for good bedroom/low volume tones.  The EQ needs to be LAST in that chain.  The compression is not necessaily great for true tone, but the sustain gives you another component of a cranked amp that is lacking at low volumes.  The OD is obvious...  The EQ compensates for the lack of fullness that is inherent at lower volumes, and my Bill M modded Blues Junior is good from conversation volume all the way up to the volume required to use it as a monitor (I use it with a mic through the PA) at a range of 4'-6' from me.  It keeps up with acoustic drums in that configuration and without changing any settings, so it is versatile.  The amp is kept pure clean (pre-amp low, using the power amp for volume).

This all changes when my OTS-50 FM ME with C-Lator is here and done.  Then, I'll be doing more or less what Plasticvonaband said..

SOON!!!!

Hope that helps

BTW, the EQ is mid-scooped, with the very top rolled off and the low end pushed.  Basically, I do to descending shaoes on a 7 band.. High-Mid-Low-High-Mid-Lower/Mid-Low... It seems to work.

The basic manuals are available on the Ceriatone website....

Wow, great looking rig Todd!! Cool to see a little amp porn!!!

Thanks again!

Now where are the audioi clips of it?

Many thanks man!!! Yeah, I thought the standard cab was supposed to be 10" high.  At 7" for the bottom of the transformer, the interior of a standard cab should have about 2" clearance.  The C-lator and a rack shoul add 3 1/2", but a minimum of 14" is a safe bet.

Thanks again.

Thanks Bro!!!

Todd or Anyone Else,

I want to price out a cab, but I don't have all the info I need...

What is the clearance of the either the tubes or trannies and the bottom of the standard cab?? I know that the C-lator fits in the taller cab with little clearance from the amp components, but I wanted to make sure I had eonough inside clearance for an extra 1u rack space below the C-lator.

Anyone know the inside clearance on standard cab?

Thanks everyone!!!

FM 50 ME with C-Lator.  Nik agreed to do what we talked about before the suspension of selling kits.  I'm doing a quasi-kit.  No tubes, no cab, no trannies, but assembled/wired.  The C-lator is going to be complete.

The cleans are exactly what I want, but the OD is where there was any question... I like what I hear out there, but it sounds like the ME will have all the characteristics I want.  A shade darker, but hopefully still creamy.  That may be a matter of picking the right tubes. 

How's your amp burning in?  Pros/Cons?

What do you think about the extra slot/reverb idea?