Using fx/ effect loop

Steven_nl
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Using fx/ effect loop

« on: April 11, 2008, 08:00:31 AM »

Ok I have oredered My ODS.
I have been using a Line PODXT Pro.

Wat is the best way to hook up fx with the ODS?
I have read the FX loop is passive but i have no idea what that means.

Obviously I could use my PODXT (without the amp models) in fornt of the amp. The POD has decent reverb, delay, chorus. auto wah. regular wah and even a nice leslie.I have no idea if it would be better to use the effect loop of the ODS?

Or what about usig the FX loop of the PODXT Pro?

Guitar--->Podxt guitar input---->POD fx send----->Guitar input ODS---->ODS FX send----->POD FX return----->POD output---->ODS Return

Complicated but The POD has the option to put fx infront or after the fx send/return. That way I could put some fx (wah) infornt and some (reverd) after the pre amp


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eriwebnerr
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 06:48:27 PM »

Hi Steve,
I think the difficulty here is the POD XT Pro's intended use is different than what this application warrants. That being said, I had a POD XT Live a few years back and you can definitely run these units as a pedal board (effects only - no amp or cab sims). The upside is you have a system with a built in fail over. If the amp dies, you can use the POD alone. To me the down side was that when all effects were bypassed, the tone still seemed colored.

I was looking at the ins / outs for the POD XT Pro and here are a few thoughts:

1. you could run the POD Pro in the effects loop - take the preamp out from the Overtone into the "Line Level Input" on the POD and then the "Unbalanced Analog Out" to the Power Amp in on the Overtone - make sure the POD is in "Live mode" to do this so you bypass the AIR II modeling

This will work well for modulations, delays, and reverbs, but Wahs, filters, and ODs might sound odd.

2. Use the POD in front of the amp- plug your "Unbalanced Analog Out" in "Live mode" into the input of the Overtone

Reverbs and delays will probably sound funky though - especially if you use the OD on the amp.

I personally think you will have the best success if you limit the use of the POD to one area of effects: only for modulations, delays and reverbs (option 1) OR only for wahs, OD, compression, filters (option 2).

Regarding the effects loop on the Overtone, here is my limited understanding. First, there are generally speaking two kinds of loops: series and parallel. The loop in the Overtone is a series loop. Meaning it doesn't split the signal keeping an unadulterated version inside the amp and another through the loop and then mix the two together. Rather, it sends the whole signal naked an unashamed out the preamp out. It then expects to see the whole strength it sent came back in through the power amp in.

This is important because your normal stomp boxes can take this level of signal but most rack gear can, and in fact it is designed to do so. Most pedals want to see the relatively weak signal that comes directly from a guitar. It is passive in that it doesn't doctor the signal in any way going out or coming in (for buffering or handling levels). Thus the talk about the "Dumblator". Which is a separate device that take care of this.

I hope all this helps!


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hywelg
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 10:08:03 PM »

Steve, I've got a POD XT and every amp I tried it through, it seems to mess with the tone. My first valve amp was a Fender Hot Rod and that is a pretty dry characterless amp unles you have it at ear splitting volume levels, but when you put the POD through it it sounds weak, and nasty. I even tried putting it directly into the PowerAmp In and using the pre-amp modeling but that was poor aswell.

If you want to use it as an effects box and no matter where you put it in the signal path I'd seriously consider an A/B routing so you can take it completely out of the line when you want the pure amp tone. I think you'll find you like the amp tone so much that you'll be loathe to adulterate it with the POD.

I'm gradually assembling an array of pedals to do what the POD used to, but I'll still keep it as a light weight emergency backup if my amp fails and for messing about late at night at home.

CHeers

Hywel Harris


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rahimiiii
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 01:38:08 AM »

I think I will just go with individual effect pedals... these multi effect unit always colors the tone in some way. I tried plugging in a Zoom G2.1u into the plexi when I first got it and it really messed with the sound even with all amp/cab sims off.


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jake
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 03:06:22 AM »

So far just a MXR Carbon Copy delay has sounded as good as anything to me.


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Steven_nl
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2008, 09:38:22 AM »

I know I'm threading on thin ice here but.......I do like my PODXT a lot. I ise it with an Atomic Poweramp/speaker combo and it sounds very nice. Obviously the most important side of it is the versatility. Loads of amp models and FX in one box. Great!
Plus you don't have to mess with a load of wires and batteries etc.

But obviously I didn't buy the ODS for nothing (well I sorta fell in love with it). I think the sound is very good. Especially at medium gain levels. I think the POD is not so good for blues and medium OD sounds.
I could go for a Holy Grail ofcourse but I would hate to loose the leslie. The POD does have a few good fx. I guess using it for Reverb, Delay, Chorus/leslie and even the volume pedal would be an option. This would leave me with having to buy an Wah or auto wah.
I guess I have to wait till the ODS arrives and just try it.

Thanks for your imput guys!!


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hywelg
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2008, 01:23:47 PM »

Steven, the Atomic is designed to work with the POD, so the poweramp is pretty neutral and shouldn't colour the tone, it also uses the POD as the pre-amp as far as I am aware, thus allowing for all the POD tones to be reproduced faithfully. I wanted to try one of these when I found my POD less than satisfactory through a valve amp, but no one had one near me. I'm glad you found it sounded good, maybe I should revisit and see if I can try one, but having just started a OT kit build I think I'm going to stick with all valve now!

Now your problem will come when you use the POD in front of the OT. The OT has a character of its own and I doubt whether you will find it satisfactory used in conjuntion with the POD, but you can try it. I doubt you'll find it satisfactory in front of any valve amp, and you'd be better plugging straight into the PA with it. This is my backup plan for if my amp goes down, it does work and a lot better than through an amp IMO.

You can also try it straight into the Poweramp In (FX return) which was how I used the POD with my HotRod. You will always lose something whichever way you do it, thats why I suggested an A/B switch to take the POD completely out of circuit.


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Steven_nl
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2008, 02:07:11 PM »

thanks
Yeah I wouldn't want to use it in front of the ODS. Maybe in the loop we'll see.
I do need some reverb on both my clean and OD sounds. So switching it of (or bypass) won't be an option
If not I'll just buy a Holy Grail ;-).


« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 02:26:02 PM by Steven_nl »	Logged

jzucker
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2008, 10:48:27 PM »

you will need some type of buffered loop. Running a floor type pedal in the loop (even with short cables) will lower your overall volume and muddy up your sound. This is fact, not folklore.


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Steven_nl
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2008, 07:20:48 AM »

Hmm

My PODXT PRO has in and output level. Wouldn't want to buy a $600 effect loop.


« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 07:33:32 AM by Steven_nl »	Logged

jzucker
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2008, 02:48:59 PM »

you don't need a $600 loop. The klein-ulator I had made was around $125 if memory serves correctly. You can get a tube dumbleator made for under $250 and there are other devices out there for less than $200.


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Steven_nl
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2008, 03:23:56 PM »

Hard to find info on the klein-ulator. Could you point me to where you bought one?
Tnx!
Steven


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jzucker
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2008, 05:03:58 PM »

do a google search for amp-garage. You can find the circuit diagrams there. I just posted there that I was looking for one and had someone build it for me.


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mcinku
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2008, 06:07:52 PM »

Quote from: Steven_nl on April 16, 2008, 03:23:56 PM

Hard to find info on the klein-ulator. Could you point me to where you bought one?
Tnx!
Steven

Man, that's just not true... Wink

http://brownnote.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=869
or even better
http://brownnote.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=980

You see,... just need to know where to look.
Grin


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Steven_nl
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Re: Using fx/ effect loop

« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2008, 07:26:48 PM »

Hi Guys yeah sorry! Once I was in that Brown tone forum there was lots of info. Searching in Google only gave me 4 or 5 hits and none lead to a store where you can buy one. I can't even solder a guitar cable :-(

Who knows maybe I can find someone in Holland to make me one!

Thanks again I do appreciate all you input alot!!

Steven


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