Ceriatone Forum

Ok I have oredered My ODS.
I have been using a Line PODXT Pro.

Wat is the best way to hook up fx with the ODS?
I have read the FX loop is passive but i have no idea what that means.

Obviously I could use my PODXT (without the amp models) in fornt of the amp. The POD has decent reverb, delay, chorus. auto wah. regular wah and even a nice leslie.I have no idea if it would be better to use the effect loop of the ODS?

Or what about usig the FX loop of the PODXT Pro?

Guitar--->Podxt guitar input---->POD fx send----->Guitar input ODS---->ODS FX send----->POD FX return----->POD output---->ODS Return

Complicated but The POD has the option to put fx infront or after the fx send/return. That way I could put some fx (wah) infornt and some (reverd) after the pre amp


 





 

Hi Steve,
I think the difficulty here is the POD XT Pro's intended use is different than what this application warrants. That being said, I had a POD XT Live a few years back and you can definitely run these units as a pedal board (effects only - no amp or cab sims). The upside is you have a system with a built in fail over. If the amp dies, you can use the POD alone. To me the down side was that when all effects were bypassed, the tone still seemed colored.

I was looking at the ins / outs for the POD XT Pro and here are a few thoughts:

1. you could run the POD Pro in the effects loop - take the preamp out from the Overtone into the "Line Level Input" on the POD and then the "Unbalanced Analog Out" to the Power Amp in on the Overtone - make sure the POD is in "Live mode" to do this so you bypass the AIR II modeling

This will work well for modulations, delays, and reverbs, but Wahs, filters, and ODs might sound odd.

2. Use the POD in front of the amp- plug your "Unbalanced Analog Out" in "Live mode" into the input of the Overtone

Reverbs and delays will probably sound funky though - especially if you use the OD on the amp.

I personally think you will have the best success if you limit the use of the POD to one area of effects: only for modulations, delays and reverbs (option 1) OR only for wahs, OD, compression, filters (option 2).

Regarding the effects loop on the Overtone, here is my limited understanding. First, there are generally speaking two kinds of loops: series and parallel. The loop in the Overtone is a series loop. Meaning it doesn't split the signal keeping an unadulterated version inside the amp and another through the loop and then mix the two together. Rather, it sends the whole signal naked an unashamed out the preamp out. It then expects to see the whole strength it sent came back in through the power amp in.

This is important because your normal stomp boxes can take this level of signal but most rack gear can, and in fact it is designed to do so. Most pedals want to see the relatively weak signal that comes directly from a guitar. It is passive in that it doesn't doctor the signal in any way going out or coming in (for buffering or handling levels). Thus the talk about the "Dumblator". Which is a separate device that take care of this.

I hope all this helps!

Steve, I've got a POD XT and every amp I tried it through, it seems to mess with the tone. My first valve amp was a Fender Hot Rod and that is a pretty dry characterless amp unles you have it at ear splitting volume levels, but when you put the POD through it it sounds weak, and nasty. I even tried putting it directly into the PowerAmp In and using the pre-amp modeling but that was poor aswell.

If you want to use it as an effects box and no matter where you put it in the signal path I'd seriously consider an A/B routing so you can take it completely out of the line when you want the pure amp tone. I think you'll find you like the amp tone so much that you'll be loathe to adulterate it with the POD.

I'm gradually assembling an array of pedals to do what the POD used to, but I'll still keep it as a light weight emergency backup if my amp fails and for messing about late at night at home.

CHeers

Hywel Harris

I think I will just go with individual effect pedals... these multi effect unit always colors the tone in some way. I tried plugging in a Zoom G2.1u into the plexi when I first got it and it really messed with the sound even with all amp/cab sims off.

So far just a MXR Carbon Copy delay has sounded as good as anything to me.

I know I'm threading on thin ice here but.......I do like my PODXT a lot. I ise it with an Atomic Poweramp/speaker combo and it sounds very nice. Obviously the most important side of it is the versatility. Loads of amp models and FX in one box. Great!
Plus you don't have to mess with a load of wires and batteries etc.

But obviously I didn't buy the ODS for  nothing (well I sorta fell in love with it). I think the sound  is very good. Especially at medium gain levels. I think the POD is not so good for blues and medium OD sounds.
I could go for a Holy Grail ofcourse but I would hate to loose the leslie. The POD does have a few good fx. I guess using it for Reverb, Delay, Chorus/leslie and even the volume pedal would be an option. This would leave me with having to buy an Wah or auto wah.
I guess I have to wait till the ODS arrives and just try it.

Thanks for your imput guys!!

Steven, the Atomic is designed to work with the POD, so the poweramp is pretty neutral and shouldn't colour the tone, it also uses the POD as the pre-amp as far as I am aware, thus allowing for all the POD tones to be reproduced faithfully. I wanted to try one of these when I found my POD less than satisfactory through a valve amp, but no one had one near me. I'm glad you found it sounded good, maybe I should revisit and see if I can try one, but having just started a OT kit build I think I'm going to stick with all valve now!

Now your problem will come when you use the POD in front of the OT. The OT has a character of its own and I doubt whether you will find it satisfactory used in conjuntion with the POD, but you can try it. I doubt you'll find it satisfactory in front of any valve amp, and you'd be better plugging straight into the PA with it. This is my backup plan for if my amp goes down, it does work and a lot better than through an amp IMO.

You can also try it straight into the Poweramp In (FX return) which was how I used the POD with my HotRod. You will always lose something whichever way you do it, thats why I suggested an A/B switch to take the POD completely out of circuit.

thanks
Yeah I wouldn't want to use it in front of the ODS. Maybe in the loop we'll see.
I do need some reverb on both my clean and OD sounds. So switching it of (or bypass) won't be an option
If not I'll just buy a Holy Grail ;-).

you will need some type of buffered loop. Running a floor type pedal in the loop (even with short cables) will lower your overall volume and muddy up your sound. This is fact, not folklore.

Hmm

My PODXT PRO has in and output level. Wouldn't want to buy a $600 effect loop.

you don't need a $600 loop. The klein-ulator I had made was around $125 if memory serves correctly. You can get a tube dumbleator made for under $250 and there are other devices out there for less than $200.

Hard to find info on the klein-ulator. Could you point me to where you bought one?
Tnx!
Steven

do a google search for amp-garage. You can find the circuit diagrams there. I just posted there that I was looking for one and had someone build it for me.

Man, that's just not true...  ;)
http://brownnote.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=869 (http://brownnote.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=869)
or even better
http://brownnote.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=980 (http://brownnote.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=980)

You see,... just need to know where to look.
 ;D

Hi Guys yeah sorry! Once I was in that Brown tone forum there was lots of info. Searching in Google only gave me 4 or 5 hits and none lead to a store where you can buy one. I can't even solder a guitar cable :-(

Who knows maybe I can find someone in Holland to make me one!

Thanks again I do appreciate all you input alot!!

Steven

email me offline (jackzucker@gmail.com) and I will give you Mike Klein's email address.

You got a PM.

Thanks fior you offer Jack! It seems I might have found someone in Holland. Or better still someone has found me! :D

Well, power amps, by their very natural and design, are all neutral.  Voicing comes from preamps, power amps just...make bigger.  That's not to say they don't have their own behavior, that's why we like the crank Marshalls.

But I agree that everyones mileage will vary when matching POD and amp.

eriwebnerr have the correct setup for how to connect. 

What also has to be done is setting the amp bypass mode, there are 4...COMBO FRONT, STACK FRONT, COMBO PWRAMP, and STACK PWRAMP...I think it's self-explanatory which is used for which.  The manual goes into more detail.  And want to turn the speaker sims and AIR off.

What the OP needs to decide is what effect they will be using and how.  Very few pro and long-time players use reverb with distortion, only with clean to low gain tones.  So, will you need or want reverb after the preamp?  Maybe, maybe not.  In really dead rooms, a little slapback delay can be used, which works just as well in front of the amp as in the loop. 

Long delays would probably sound best in the loop, as would chorus and phase is used with heavy OD.  But compression may be too noisy there. 

I use a little reverb with OD sounds.

I just bought an old Rocktron intellifex and it sounds great in the loop.

Today I also ordered all parts to make a Klein-ulator just incase I
would like to use other effects with my Overtone.

my 2 cents - I have found anything that can handle rack levels (like the Glass Nexus, G-Major, G-sharp, and I'm sure the POD XT Pro [if connected coreectly]) works really well in the loop of the Overtone - no tone or signal loss ..

Another thought - if you want to buffer the loop would the VHT valvulator be a readily available viable option?

http://www.vhtamp.com/product-news/valvulator1.html (http://www.vhtamp.com/product-news/valvulator1.html)

I'm using one in front as a buffer and power supply for my effects. It is a stellar piece of gear! Its like night and day even though all my effects are true bypass. I also use it for recording before a Line 6 Tone Port. Its one of those things you think your over paying for, then you can't live without!

How about an integrated Dumbelator inside the amp? I wish the overtone special has more space for tubes or boards however... I have a schematic for a buffered effect loop using a 12AU7. Cost of parts is around 50 dollars. May be more cost effective for those limited on budget.

Nik also told me by putting in built in spring reverb after the effect pedal you kinda get a bonus effect loop boost which is same as a buffered loop. I wonder how it works. I know the reverb loop is kinda like a buffered effect loop because the signal that returns from the reverb tank is really weak.

You could use something like a Boss LS-2 or something which has a buffered loop.

Greetings to all on this thread. I just wanted to say that I had some anxiety about this whole passive effects loop issue on the Overtone. Now that finally have the amp, and have had a chance to check things out, I am  not sure what the fuss is. First, (this just my narrow opinion) I am not sure why somebody who was into using a lot of effects (or likes the POD XT) would want an Overtone Special. What makes it "special" is that it sounds so very good all on its own. It is hard for me to fathom why anyone would want to modulate that in some way. I do understand the use of a little delay and/or reverb. I run a Line 6 Verbzilla and a Visual Sound H20 Chorus Delay through the loop and they sound just fine. Neither of these are very sophisticated or top-rated.

That said, if you have found some way to improve the overall performance of the Overtone Special by using some kind of ***alator or other device I would be interested to hear about your experiences.

Makes for a nice change. My PODXT sounds pretty good and is very versitile. In tjhis case I only want to use the reverb, delay, chrous, leslei and volume pedal. I have it lying around so why bother with buying new fx.