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| | |-+  The Overtone Special... Worth the cash?
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Poll
Question: Is the Overtone Special worth the higher price?
100% Yes   -9 (81.8%)
Yeah, I guess   -2 (18.2%)
Not Really   -0 (0%)
100% No   -0 (0%)
Total Voters: 9

Author Topic: The Overtone Special... Worth the cash?  (Read 12955 times)
darkarbiter7
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« on: March 24, 2008, 11:06:21 PM »

Hey,
This summer, i'm gonna be getting jobs (i'm a teenager, and i'm looking for a nice recording and gigging amp for blues, jazz, and rock, and i've heard that these Overtone Specials are kind of based off of dumbles, which I adore the tone of). Anyways, since I don't have the patience or skill to build one from the ground up with a kit, i'm gonna have Nik build it, cab and all.
Well, if I get the Overtone built, and once I factor in the price for a cab, i'm gonna be spending around 1500 dollars. A decently steep price for a teenager such as myself who doesn't have a full time job (or a part time for that matter). But, if I were to get like a trainwreck clone, or a JTM45 BB built, the price would drop down to about 1000.
Would the overtone be worth the extra cash, or should I go for one of the tried-and-true JTM or Trainwrecks (or, even the matchless clones for that matter)?

Also, off topic... Does anyone know the wattage of the Overtone Special? I don't want too high of a wattage, nothing higher than 50, since I want to get plenty of power tube overdrive at small-gig volume without using an attenuator. And, is there some kind of warranty for amps when they're built by Nik?

Thank you!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 11:10:13 PM by darkarbiter7 » Logged
ChrisL
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2008, 12:10:22 AM »

Hey there,

   The amp is a value at the price Nik is offering them at...especially if you have experience building an amp of this complexity.  You will be able to shave a bit off the cost by finding a cab maker closer to home.  That in itself sounds like a good project for a highschool fella such as yourself.  Your Industrial Ed. teacher should be happy to contribute. 
  As for a TW,  45, or DC30 clone..really, you can't go wrong but be aware they are all very different beasts.  Set your sites on the one that really "speaks" to you and mow those lawns and pump that gas to get it. 

All of these amps are roughly in the same output range so if you are thinking you want get saturation out of the output sections...you are going to be LOUD.  The Overtone alone gets the majority of it's gain from the preamp and can sound equally great at low volumes to cranked up levels.  There are no warranties but should you have any trouble there are plenty of knowledgeable people here and "there" to help you out.
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darkarbiter7
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2008, 01:07:36 AM »

Well, do you think it's worth the extra cash to get the OS?
I'd just get the head cabinet built by nik, i'd actually buy a speaker cab when I get it.
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ChrisL
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2008, 02:29:16 AM »

Worth is deep concept...but, sure,..it's "worth it".
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wyatt
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2008, 07:21:29 AM »

You are really comparing different amps.  So, you need to decide what it is you are going for.  If you like Dumble tone, then they are probably the best pick, and the most versatile at covering clean jazz and modern, overdriven blues and classic rock.  The high-gain preamp is great for slide work. 

The Overtone Special is Dumble based (40 watts, BTW).  The Dumble design isn't about power tube distortion.  The idea behind the Dumble (like most preamp OD-based amps) is a high-gain preamp distortion into a clean power amp that keeps the sound tight and defined.  That's why these sound so sweet when used for clean, hey are optimized for a clean poweramp.  Most Dumbles were build around the clean Fender 85-watt Twin Reverb poweramp, and modern amps that use the high-gain preamp idea all keep using bigger and cleaner power amps.   Yes, you can crank the power amp, and being Fender based, you know it should sound nice and musical, just know the amp isn't designed around that idea.

The JTM-45/BB on the other hand is all about cranking.  The preamp is low-gain, the way to get OD is to crank the amp and get both the preamp and poweramp cooking.  Less saturated and less defined than the Dumble, it's going to have a bigger,  "browner," fatter power amp crunch.  Marshall!  Though, it's going to be bluesier, with less gain and more sag than it's tighter, hotter rock'n'roll cousin, the 50-watt Model 1987.

Now, the Expression, on the other hand, is based on an amp design for rock.  The goal Marshall pushed to the limited, but with more clarity and note definition.  It's all about a hot preamp with a power amp optimized for crunch. Personally, i think they sound too buzzy, maybe Fischer tried to get too much gain out of too few preamp tubes?

my own tastes?  The Dumble for jazz, hands down.  But I'll take a 1987 for rock (my tastes lean more to '70's/'80's hard rock).  For blues, I'm a Tweed Fender kind of guy (not a modern "guitar blues" fan, I like the early stuff), but I'm sure I could dial in fine tones on the Dumbkle too.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 08:18:11 AM by wyatt » Logged
mcinku
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2008, 07:46:32 AM »

If I would have to decide on one amp, it would be Overtone hands down.
This amp is the most versatile amp compared to others you mentioned.

It can do Fender BF clean and not to mention the famous creamy OD tone ... and all in between  tones as well  Wink

With all the switches and pots, OD and PAB selection you will find all the tone you need.

 Wink

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stevorc321
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2008, 10:39:08 AM »

You are really comparing different amps.  So, you need to decide what it is you are going for.  If you like Dumble tone, then they are probably the best pick, and the most versatile at covering clean jazz and modern, overdriven blues and classic rock.  The high-gain preamp is great for slide work. 

The Overtone Special is Dumble based (40 watts, BTW).  The Dumble design isn't about power tube distortion.  The idea behind the Dumble (like most preamp OD-based amps) is a high-gain preamp distortion into a clean power amp that keeps the sound tight and defined.  That's why these sound so sweet when used for clean, hey are optimized for a clean poweramp.  Most Dumbles were build around the clean Fender 85-watt Twin Reverb poweramp, and modern amps that use the high-gain preamp idea all keep using bigger and cleaner power amps.   Yes, you can crank the power amp, and being Fender based, you know it should sound nice and musical, just know the amp isn't designed around that idea.

The JTM-45/BB on the other hand is all about cranking.  The preamp is low-gain, the way to get OD is to crank the amp and get both the preamp and poweramp cooking.  Less saturated and less defined than the Dumble, it's going to have a bigger,  "browner," fatter power amp crunch.  Marshall!  Though, it's going to be bluesier, with less gain and more sag than it's tighter, hotter rock'n'roll cousin, the 50-watt Model 1987.

Now, the Expression, on the other hand, is based on an amp design for rock.  The goal Marshall pushed to the limited, but with more clarity and note definition.  It's all about a hot preamp with a power amp optimized for crunch. Personally, i think they sound too buzzy, maybe Fischer tried to get too much gain out of too few preamp tubes?

my own tastes?  The Dumble for jazz, hands down.  But I'll take a 1987 for rock (my tastes lean more to '70's/'80's hard rock).  For blues, I'm a Tweed Fender kind of guy (not a modern "guitar blues" fan, I like the early stuff), but I'm sure I could dial in fine tones on the Dumbkle too.

Hey Wyatt - that's a really cool post.  Sums the models up nicely!!
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darkarbiter7
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2008, 03:22:18 PM »

All right, i'm leaning toward the overtone now.
Just one more question:
How much gain could the OS get? I do play stuff like Santana and Eric Johnson sometimes, and some of their stuff needs a fair amount of gain.
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Alpedra
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2008, 07:12:56 PM »

Well.. Santana and Eric Johnson both used Dumbles in their career. Don´t know if they still do, but I think Santana´s still playing Dumbles...
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Overtone + 36W ef86 TMB = Tone Heaven
darkarbiter7
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2008, 08:06:32 PM »

Oh, how much would Nik charge for shipping of a completed overtone (if I knew how much they weighed)?
I am leaning more towards the overtone more because I heard a few of the clips and thought it sounded excellent. Well, if the overtone has BF-like cleans, that's gonna be a deciding point for me, because I must have good cleans.
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wyatt
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2008, 08:46:56 PM »

Oh, how much would Nik charge for shipping of a completed overtone (if I knew how much they weighed)?
I am leaning more towards the overtone more because I heard a few of the clips and thought it sounded excellent. Well, if the overtone has BF-like cleans, that's gonna be a deciding point for me, because I must have good cleans.

It's right on his site.

Look up the weight.

Go to "Shipment Table," and select "USA."  I believe you'll go by the DHL pricing, which would be $185 for the OS with cab. 

You save $70 on shipping without the cab, but at Nik's prices $200 (for cab) + $70 (for shipping)...you are coming up close to what a US-built cab would cost.  A cab in the states will run $200-250, depending on options/builder and probably $20 to ship.  So, worst case scenario, you're paying $50 extra in shipping, best case...you're breaking even. 

Now if you were going for a combo, I would buy the cab in the States, the combo cabs add ~35kg to the weight and the shipping runs almost as much as a domestic-built cab. 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 08:53:55 PM by wyatt » Logged
rahimiiii
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2008, 02:41:18 AM »

I been looking at the dumble too as I really want a clean amp as well. I have a Plexi 50 right now by the way I replaced the phase inverter to a 12AT7 for more clean headroom but distortion doesn't sound as good in that case... so I guess its hard to have one amp that can have both. While the dumble looks complex the turret board is pre assembled you just need to wire the tranny and all off board stuff like sockets and pots together so it's probably not that hard if you can break the work into sections. I am sure an Industrial Ed teacher will help you out in that case too... You only need to watch out for high voltage so keep the amp unplugged and wear shoes while messing with the amp, and drain the filter cap too (check with a multimeter).

Maybe you could leave out the extra stuff like foot switch until you get a working amp.

Or if you want something with good clean tone look into Fender, they are simple.
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darkarbiter7
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2008, 06:55:37 PM »

Any more opinions?
Is there a song by someone (not the sound clips) which the tone is easy to get with the OTS?
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wyatt
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2008, 07:34:14 PM »

Any more opinions?
Is there a song by someone (not the sound clips) which the tone is easy to get with the OTS?


Go to you tube and search Robben Ford and Larry Carlton, there are tons of clips, many with both together, playing their various Dumble (often you can see the amps right behind them in the videos.  Those are the tones the ODS/OTS are really sought for.  I would be surprised, considering the music you are interested in, if you didn't already have exposure to these artists, their are big in the jazz-blues fusion scene.

Much of Texas Flood used a Dumble, but I can't comment on which songs (I'm no SRV fan).

Lowell George used a Dumble for most of his years in Little Feat, the saturated preamp keeps his slide tone balance and compressed, it inspired many slide-based artist, like Bonnie Raitt, to use higher-gain amps for their slide work.
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darkarbiter7
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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2008, 10:11:51 PM »

alright, I'm a major SRV fan, and the tone from Texas Flood is one of my favorite tones of his.
Thanks for all your help!
I'll probably order it in April, but I need to find a good cab for it.
I know I want an avatar, but what speaker config and what model of speakers should I get in it?
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