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Author Topic: Stalking a new Ceriatone Overtone FM50 Mod Eagle...  (Read 56016 times)
Kevster
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« on: May 08, 2011, 11:11:47 PM »

Hey All,

I've been lurking as I have a Marshall Combo on consignment... The plan is to take the cash from that and pick up a kit from Ceriatone Overtone FM50 Mod Eagle, but I'm wanting to go a little outside the box with this rig... You see, I play mainly in church settings and I typically will have my amp isolated out of sight and reach. I currently use a Bill M modded Blues Junior, but though a great little amp, it doesn't do anything but provide a nice clean warm sound... I use pedals to do the rest (this isn't optimum, but it is better than any modeler I've played through.) Because of where and how I have to use this thing, I thought about adding some extras to the stock amp.

First: It'll be a head with a separate speaker cabinet.  This is a no-brainer as I don't put the amp in an iso-cabinet (heat).  Even still, I won't be able to have my hands on the amp, so hence my "plans".

Well, these "extras" include the addition of an external footswitch for those switches typically on the faceplate... I have to "remote" them for use from the stage.  It'll likely be 15-20 feet of cable from my location of the stage to the amp plus another 10' to the speaker cab... I think it is easy to see why I need to have the controls outboard of the amp!

I've read of a number of mods on here, some of which I may have to try at some point once I get it "home".  I was going to order the complete 60W kit/Package 2 and do the rest myself.  I have some time, but I've read that there are many players on here that have substituted other trannies, tubes, etc.  If that is a common issue, please say so!!!

So: 1) Modding the switches, anybody done it?; 2) Are "factory" mods common, accepted, worth it; 3) Any advice of red flags from anyone?

Thanks for any advice or information!!!
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Kevster
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2011, 01:07:14 AM »

Oh, and adding the Smartulator goes without saying.  That's a must.  All the positive aspects of the OTS, but no reverb... Some sort of delay and some 'verb now and then is a must with the music I do...
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2011, 03:34:18 AM »

Hey man
I built the OTS FM50 Modern eagle as my first kit build.
Its a great amp, and I am still learning new uses for its settings all the time.

You should contact Nik by email and express your tonal desires, using as many descriptions you can think of.

As far as "modding switches" that is pretty vague ?
Lots of the guys on this site do all kinds of various mods as required. They are usually seasoned builders I would suppose.

What mods do you refer to?

Are you going to build this kit?Or pre-built?

Todd


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Kevster
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2011, 04:09:57 AM »

Somewhere from all parts to assembled board, but no further.  I've done electronics work for years.  Trained technician in the army, even learned to solder in a military manner.  Not a problem there.

The switch mods aren't electronically involved at all.  I want to add footswitching capabilities/alternatives to the switches on the face (Bright, Deep, Rock/Jazz)... Since I haven't had the pleasure of test driving one of these amps enough to know the impact of these switches, I don't know how useful they'd be live. i know the existing footswitch is an OD/PreAmp(Mid)-Boost, but the other switch controls (if they are still on the amp) aren't going to be unusable in a live situation under the performance constraints. The "Rock/Jazz" switch seems like it might be handy for sure, but possibly all three would be handy to change in a live situation.  Our music has a lot of dynamic changes sometimes... Are switching any of these three "on the fly" useable sonically?  It may not be practical on the amp, but it might be useful for some songs...

Thanks for the heads up on things.  I've heard about Nik's great reputation for being pro-active and very helpful, but I always go to the players first... I guess I'm partial to opinions that come from people that have the shared experience of parting with cash.... Grin
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2011, 12:57:16 PM »

Somewhere from all parts to assembled board, but no further.  I've done electronics work for years.  Trained technician in the army, even learned to solder in a military manner.  Not a problem there.

The switch mods aren't electronically involved at all.  I want to add footswitching capabilities/alternatives to the switches on the face (Bright, Deep, Rock/Jazz)... Since I haven't had the pleasure of test driving one of these amps enough to know the impact of these switches, I don't know how useful they'd be live. i know the existing footswitch is an OD/PreAmp(Mid)-Boost, but the other switch controls (if they are still on the amp) aren't going to be unusable in a live situation under the performance constraints. The "Rock/Jazz" switch seems like it might be handy for sure, but possibly all three would be handy to change in a live situation.  Our music has a lot of dynamic changes sometimes... Are switching any of these three "on the fly" useable sonically?  It may not be practical on the amp, but it might be useful for some songs...

Thanks for the heads up on things.  I've heard about Nik's great reputation for being pro-active and very helpful, but I always go to the players first... I guess I'm partial to opinions that come from people that have the shared experience of parting with cash.... Grin

The questions you ask are very common for 'new' users of Dumble style amps.

98% of all users have the switches set like this: Bright: Off, Mid Off, Rock/Jazz: Rock
Some people (me included) have put the mid boost functionality on a relay, so it can foot switched - I never use it.

As you know there's a lot of difference between playing at home situation, where you can experiment with all kinds of settings - and really hear every small difference in tone. However, at rehearsal with a band or playing gigs, take my word for it, you have more than enough options with OD and PAB footswitch. Dumble knew what he did - and his amps are designed for studio or live use. These are the situations where this amp shines - not home use.

Have fun with your amp!

BTW, the PAB sound really strange at home, but but but when you play with a band, its a different story...it actually help focus your lead tone and works fine for Blues, Rock and fusion.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 12:58:49 PM by bluesfendermanblues » Logged

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Kevster
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2011, 05:30:26 PM »

Somewhere from all parts to assembled board, but no further.  I've done electronics work for years.  Trained technician in the army, even learned to solder in a military manner.  Not a problem there.

The switch mods aren't electronically involved at all.  I want to add footswitching capabilities/alternatives to the switches on the face (Bright, Deep, Rock/Jazz)... Since I haven't had the pleasure of test driving one of these amps enough to know the impact of these switches, I don't know how useful they'd be live. i know the existing footswitch is an OD/PreAmp(Mid)-Boost, but the other switch controls (if they are still on the amp) aren't going to be unusable in a live situation under the performance constraints. The "Rock/Jazz" switch seems like it might be handy for sure, but possibly all three would be handy to change in a live situation.  Our music has a lot of dynamic changes sometimes... Are switching any of these three "on the fly" useable sonically?  It may not be practical on the amp, but it might be useful for some songs...

Thanks for the heads up on things.  I've heard about Nik's great reputation for being pro-active and very helpful, but I always go to the players first... I guess I'm partial to opinions that come from people that have the shared experience of parting with cash.... Grin

The questions you ask are very common for 'new' users of Dumble style amps.

98% of all users have the switches set like this: Bright: Off, Mid Off, Rock/Jazz: Rock
Some people (me included) have put the mid boost functionality on a relay, so it can foot switched - I never use it.

As you know there's a lot of difference between playing at home situation, where you can experiment with all kinds of settings - and really hear every small difference in tone. However, at rehearsal with a band or playing gigs, take my word for it, you have more than enough options with OD and PAB footswitch. Dumble knew what he did - and his amps are designed for studio or live use. These are the situations where this amp shines - not home use.

Have fun with your amp!

BTW, the PAB sound really strange at home, but but but when you play with a band, its a different story...it actually help focus your lead tone and works fine for Blues, Rock and fusion.

You're speaking my language!!! Thanks for the insight. Yeah, that is the kind of answer I was looking for.  I suspeected that the sswitches weren't practical live or else they would have may them foot switchable already....

I'm looking forward to having the Smartulator with a good quality amp. The Marshall on consignment just didn't sound as good as it should when using the effects loop, and it sounds like this one will...

Yeah, I'm stoked.

Do most US buyers pick up the bulk of the parts over here to save on weight/shipping costs??? THe OT, PT, Choke, tubes, etc.?
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Kevster
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2011, 05:33:23 PM »

Hey man
I built the OTS FM50 Modern eagle as my first kit build.
Its a great amp, and I am still learning new uses for its settings all the time.

You should contact Nik by email and express your tonal desires, using as many descriptions you can think of.

As far as "modding switches" that is pretty vague ?
Lots of the guys on this site do all kinds of various mods as required. They are usually seasoned builders I would suppose.

What mods do you refer to?

Are you going to build this kit?Or pre-built?

Todd



Todd,

How do you like it??? Did you assemble it yourself?  What sold you on the Mod Eagle vs. the other options??

Thanks,

Kevin
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2011, 06:18:37 PM »

The FM50 is great! I got it as a pack 2 kit in late Feb and it took under 2 weeks to build. I have only gone one day sine then without playing it and that was because I was too busy building my latest kit ( 2550 ), check the British section of forum for info on that!
Just replaced my K-lator with a C-lator on saturday. Much better.

You asked what sold me on the FM50 rather than the others.
Well I honestly was having trouble making up my mind, because every model looked good to me. I like some RF music but wouldn't even put him in my top 20 on favorite musicians, although I love the guitar tone he gets. ( Not to fond of his singing ).
It was really a throw of the dart.
If I had picked any other model I doubt there would be any regret!
Although HRM something is in the Horizon

I found my way into the D-style amps by reading a post on Joe Bonamassa's forum regarding getting the Big Reverbicated tone about 6 months ago. That led me to ceriatone, and from there its been 1 heck of a learning experience.
I too have been working in the electronics field since out of high school so the wiring and soldering was nothing to worry about, its learning what all the different components and what they do that can be difficult.

Until I played the FM50 that I built for the 1st time, I had never played another D-style amp so cant give any comparison between models.

Hope that helps a little

Todd
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2011, 07:22:20 PM »

Do most US buyers pick up the bulk of the parts over here to save on weight/shipping costs??? THe OT, PT, Choke, tubes, etc.?

I live in Europe - and that's exactly what I did.
Bought the kit without tubes and trannies and bought these in EU to save import duties and freight cost.
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Kevster
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2011, 07:23:04 PM »

Todd,

Cool... It's all good.  An educated risk that worked....

I guess I got to Ceriatone because of considering a Plexi about 4 years ago.  I was going to do a kit, but it wasn't the RIGHT amp for me.... It would have been a great amp that didn't produce MY SOUND.  That got shelved and I focused on the TONE I liked instead of just song based tone.  A lot of artists have good tone on a song or two, but other artists have great tone even if their styles were such that I wouldn't typically listen to them (like you with RF).  Warren Haynes tone with a Dumble probably got me interested, but it took a while for me to realize the value/cost of a Ceriatone OTS.  That is the bottom line.  I loved a tone that cost WAY too much to get the conventional way, and it seems like the value far outshines the cost.  If I can get 95% or more of that Dumble sound on a much smaller budget, it works!!!!

From everything I've read, the FM50 Modern Eagle sounds like it'd fit me the best.  

It sounds like you have my intended rig (amp and C-Lator/Smartulator).  I was going to try several different speaker options with the head before I pulled the trigger on a final speaker for it.  I was even considering trying out a few 15" speakers before I decided... We'll see...

Anybody tried a 15" speaker with an OTS?
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2011, 01:54:56 PM »

Well in the Dumble community I might get burned at the stake for saying this, but I started with just 1 WGS ET-65 and it was a little Dark for my taste. I since got 2x12 cab and added a WGS Vet30 to the Et-65 and it sounds great IMO.
A majority of D-style players will say the V30's sound horrible with these amps, I do not agree!

Never tried a 15" but have heard one guy using a Jensen 15" and he said he's happy with sound.

The most recommended speaker will be the Celestion G12-65. The WGS ET-65 is a clone of that which cost's 1/3 of the price.

Then there is the expensive stuff ( Alnico's , EV12L )

Good day!

Todd
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Kevster
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2011, 03:01:30 PM »

Do most US buyers pick up the bulk of the parts over here to save on weight/shipping costs??? THe OT, PT, Choke, tubes, etc.?

I live in Europe - and that's exactly what I did.
Bought the kit without tubes and trannies and bought these in EU to save import duties and freight cost.
I haven't done too much digging, but I'm not finding truly good parts cheap enough to go that route... Of course, I haven't really started looking yet....

We'll see what I find when the time comes...

Well in the Dumble community I might get burned at the stake for saying this, but I started with just 1 WGS ET-65 and it was a little Dark for my taste. I since got 2x12 cab and added a WGS Vet30 to the Et-65 and it sounds great IMO.
A majority of D-style players will say the V30's sound horrible with these amps, I do not agree!

Never tried a 15" but have heard one guy using a Jensen 15" and he said he's happy with sound.

The most recommended speaker will be the Celestion G12-65. The WGS ET-65 is a clone of that which cost's 1/3 of the price.

Then there is the expensive stuff ( Alnico's , EV12L )

Good day!

Todd
I'm going to use the speakers I have on hand in a couple of combo amps for starters... Just to test drive it.  I'll talk to the guys at my local shop and see what kind cabs I can test drive, etc....  I'll find the right fit.
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2011, 03:35:27 PM »

If you get the PT from somewhere other than Nik or Mercury magnetics you will have to also add another small 6 volt trannie for the relay switching I believe!
I was going to get them somewhere else until I found this out!
Maybe Bluesfendermanblues can tell you exactly what you will need for this!
Just throwin that out before its too late!

I did get my trannies from Magnetic components for my 2550 build with no problems other than I am colorblind and hooked the primaries wrong the first time! A learning experience!

Todd

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Plexi bass 1986 ( build #6 )
Ceriatone Ultra Champ ( build #5 )
TW Express clone ( build #4 )
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Ceriatone 2550  ( Build #2 )
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EBMM Steve Morse original
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MrGoldTop
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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2011, 10:16:45 PM »

You won't need the extra 6V transformer if you use this:

http://www.classictone.net/40-18029.pdf

I built an OTS50 last month using it. The 5V winding works fine for the relay power supply. Delivers between 11.5V and 13.5V. The relay nominal pickup voltage is 12V but according to Nik it will work down to 8V. I wouldn't want to go that low but I think my range is good.

Funny thing is they don't have an equivalent for a 100W version.

Good Luck!!
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2011, 02:21:15 PM »

You won't need the extra 6V transformer if you use this:

http://www.classictone.net/40-18029.pdf

I built an OTS50 last month using it. The 5V winding works fine for the relay power supply. Delivers between 11.5V and 13.5V. The relay nominal pickup voltage is 12V but according to Nik it will work down to 8V. I wouldn't want to go that low but I think my range is good.

Funny thing is they don't have an equivalent for a 100W version.

Good Luck!!

Thank you
I just used MC iron on my 2550 build and it turned out very well!
Which OT did you end up using with your amp?


Todd
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Plexi bass 1986 ( build #6 )
Ceriatone Ultra Champ ( build #5 )
TW Express clone ( build #4 )
Ceriatone HRM MK2 ( build #3 )
Ceriatone 2550  ( Build #2 )
Ceriatone OTS FM50 Modern Eagle Mod (Build #1)
EBMM Steve Morse original
50th anniv American Strat
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