Ceriatone Forum

Hey All,

I've been lurking as I have a Marshall Combo on consignment... The plan is to take the cash from that and pick up a kit from Ceriatone Overtone FM50 Mod Eagle, but I'm wanting to go a little outside the box with this rig... You see, I play mainly in church settings and I typically will have my amp isolated out of sight and reach. I currently use a Bill M modded Blues Junior, but though a great little amp, it doesn't do anything but provide a nice clean warm sound... I use pedals to do the rest (this isn't optimum, but it is better than any modeler I've played through.) Because of where and how I have to use this thing, I thought about adding some extras to the stock amp.

First: It'll be a head with a separate speaker cabinet.  This is a no-brainer as I don't put the amp in an iso-cabinet (heat).  Even still, I won't be able to have my hands on the amp, so hence my "plans".

Well, these "extras" include the addition of an external footswitch for those switches typically on the faceplate... I have to "remote" them for use from the stage.  It'll likely be 15-20 feet of cable from my location of the stage to the amp plus another 10' to the speaker cab... I think it is easy to see why I need to have the controls outboard of the amp!

I've read of a number of mods on here, some of which I may have to try at some point once I get it "home".  I was going to order the complete 60W kit/Package 2 and do the rest myself.  I have some time, but I've read that there are many players on here that have substituted other trannies, tubes, etc.  If that is a common issue, please say so!!!

So: 1) Modding the switches, anybody done it?; 2) Are "factory" mods common, accepted, worth it; 3) Any advice of red flags from anyone?

Thanks for any advice or information!!!

Oh, and adding the Smartulator goes without saying.  That's a must.  All the positive aspects of the OTS, but no reverb... Some sort of delay and some 'verb now and then is a must with the music I do...

Hey man
I built the OTS FM50 Modern eagle as my first kit build.
Its a great amp, and I am still learning new uses for its settings all the time.

You should contact Nik by email and express your tonal desires, using as many descriptions you can think of.

As far as "modding switches" that is pretty vague ?
Lots of the guys on this site do all kinds of various mods as required. They are usually seasoned builders I would suppose.

What mods do you refer to?

Are you going to build this kit?Or pre-built?

Todd

Somewhere from all parts to assembled board, but no further.  I've done electronics work for years.  Trained technician in the army, even learned to solder in a military manner.  Not a problem there.

The switch mods aren't electronically involved at all.  I want to add footswitching capabilities/alternatives to the switches on the face (Bright, Deep, Rock/Jazz)... Since I haven't had the pleasure of test driving one of these amps enough to know the impact of these switches, I don't know how useful they'd be live. i know the existing footswitch is an OD/PreAmp(Mid)-Boost, but the other switch controls (if they are still on the amp) aren't going to be unusable in a live situation under the performance constraints. The "Rock/Jazz" switch seems like it might be handy for sure, but possibly all three would be handy to change in a live situation.  Our music has a lot of dynamic changes sometimes... Are switching any of these three "on the fly" useable sonically?  It may not be practical on the amp, but it might be useful for some songs...

Thanks for the heads up on things.  I've heard about Nik's great reputation for being pro-active and very helpful, but I always go to the players first... I guess I'm partial to opinions that come from people that have the shared experience of parting with cash.... ;D

The questions you ask are very common for 'new' users of Dumble style amps.

98% of all users have the switches set like this: Bright: Off, Mid Off, Rock/Jazz: Rock
Some people (me included) have put the mid boost functionality on a relay, so it can foot switched - I never use it.

As you know there's a lot of difference between playing at home situation, where you can experiment with all kinds of settings - and really hear every small difference in tone. However, at rehearsal with a band or playing gigs, take my word for it, you have more than enough options with OD and PAB footswitch. Dumble knew what he did - and his amps are designed for studio or live use. These are the situations where this amp shines - not home use.

Have fun with your amp!

BTW, the PAB sound really strange at home, but but but when you play with a band, its a different story...it actually help focus your lead tone and works fine for Blues, Rock and fusion.

You're speaking my language!!! Thanks for the insight. Yeah, that is the kind of answer I was looking for.  I suspeected that the sswitches weren't practical live or else they would have may them foot switchable already....

I'm looking forward to having the Smartulator with a good quality amp. The Marshall on consignment just didn't sound as good as it should when using the effects loop, and it sounds like this one will...

Yeah, I'm stoked.

Do most US buyers pick up the bulk of the parts over here to save on weight/shipping costs??? THe OT, PT, Choke, tubes, etc.?

Todd,

How do you like it??? Did you assemble it yourself?  What sold you on the Mod Eagle vs. the other options??

Thanks,

Kevin

The FM50 is great! I got it as a pack 2 kit in late Feb and it took under 2 weeks to build. I have only gone one day sine then without playing it and that was because I was too busy building my latest kit ( 2550 ), check the British section of forum for info on that!
Just replaced my K-lator with a C-lator on saturday. Much better.

You asked what sold me on the FM50 rather than the others.
Well I honestly was having trouble making up my mind, because every model looked good to me. I like some RF music but wouldn't even put him in my top 20 on favorite musicians, although I love the guitar tone he gets. ( Not to fond of his singing ).
It was really a throw of the dart.
If I had picked any other model I doubt there would be any regret!
Although HRM something is in the Horizon

I found my way into the D-style amps by reading a post on Joe Bonamassa's forum regarding getting the Big Reverbicated tone about 6 months ago. That led me to ceriatone, and from there its been 1 heck of a learning experience.
I too have been working in the electronics field since out of high school so the wiring and soldering was nothing to worry about, its learning what all the different components and what they do that can be difficult.

Until I played the FM50 that I built for the 1st time, I had never played another D-style amp so cant give any comparison between models.

Hope that helps a little

Todd

I live in Europe - and that's exactly what I did.
Bought the kit without tubes and trannies and bought these in EU to save import duties and freight cost.

Todd,

Cool... It's all good.  An educated risk that worked....

I guess I got to Ceriatone because of considering a Plexi about 4 years ago.  I was going to do a kit, but it wasn't the RIGHT amp for me.... It would have been a great amp that didn't produce MY SOUND.  That got shelved and I focused on the TONE I liked instead of just song based tone.  A lot of artists have good tone on a song or two, but other artists have great tone even if their styles were such that I wouldn't typically listen to them (like you with RF).  Warren Haynes tone with a Dumble probably got me interested, but it took a while for me to realize the value/cost of a Ceriatone OTS.  That is the bottom line.  I loved a tone that cost WAY too much to get the conventional way, and it seems like the value far outshines the cost.  If I can get 95% or more of that Dumble sound on a much smaller budget, it works!!!!

From everything I've read, the FM50 Modern Eagle sounds like it'd fit me the best.  

It sounds like you have my intended rig (amp and C-Lator/Smartulator).  I was going to try several different speaker options with the head before I pulled the trigger on a final speaker for it.  I was even considering trying out a few 15" speakers before I decided... We'll see...

Anybody tried a 15" speaker with an OTS?

Well in the Dumble community I might get burned at the stake for saying this, but I started with just 1 WGS ET-65 and it was a little Dark for my taste. I since got 2x12 cab and added a WGS Vet30 to the Et-65 and it sounds great IMO.
A majority of D-style players will say the V30's sound horrible with these amps, I do not agree!

Never tried a 15" but have heard one guy using a Jensen 15" and he said he's happy with sound.

The most recommended speaker will be the Celestion G12-65. The WGS ET-65 is a clone of that which cost's 1/3 of the price.

Then there is the expensive stuff ( Alnico's , EV12L )

Good day!

Todd

I haven't done too much digging, but I'm not finding truly good parts cheap enough to go that route... Of course, I haven't really started looking yet....

We'll see what I find when the time comes...

I'm going to use the speakers I have on hand in a couple of combo amps for starters... Just to test drive it.  I'll talk to the guys at my local shop and see what kind cabs I can test drive, etc....  I'll find the right fit.

If you get the PT from somewhere other than Nik or Mercury magnetics you will have to also add another small 6 volt trannie for the relay switching I believe!
I was going to get them somewhere else until I found this out!
Maybe Bluesfendermanblues can tell you exactly what you will need for this!
Just throwin that out before its too late!

I did get my trannies from Magnetic components for my 2550 build with no problems other than I am colorblind and hooked the primaries wrong the first time! A learning experience!

Todd

You won't need the extra 6V transformer if you use this:

http://www.classictone.net/40-18029.pdf

I built an OTS50 last month using it. The 5V winding works fine for the relay power supply. Delivers between 11.5V and 13.5V. The relay nominal pickup voltage is 12V but according to Nik it will work down to 8V. I wouldn't want to go that low but I think my range is good.

Funny thing is they don't have an equivalent for a 100W version.

Good Luck!!

Thank you
I just used MC iron on my 2550 build and it turned out very well!
Which OT did you end up using with your amp?


Todd

I used this OT

http://www.classictone.net/40-18001.pdf

And this choke

http://www.classictone.net/40-18003.pdf

Hey I was just looking up PT specs for that 40-18029

What did you do for the 50v bias winding?

I do not see a 50v tap on this PT

Todd

Sorry last post was directed @ MrGoldtop

Todd

Red/Grn-Red/Yel

WOW
one thing I do not like about MC is the way they do they're spec sheets.

Thanks MrGoldtop

Now I know what to use for my next OTS build ( someday )

Todd

Hi everyone,

Whats the difference between the FM and the FM "Modern Eagle Mod"? Or is it the same? ???

A few components were changed from the original FM to make it less bright!
Modern eagle will be just a hair darker than the regular FM
Couple caps and a couple resistors! Thats all

Todd

Negative feedback in the clean channel is switchable on the Modern Eagle Mod.

Less bright is good. I would use this amp with a 2x12" box, loaded with evm 12l's. Where is the switch for the negative feedback, inside? How does switch change the tone?
Thanks!
Regards from germany, Achim

It's between V1 and V2 on the underside of the chassis.

The change in tone is somewhat subtle when using the LNFB switch.
What I have noticed is with it off the amp is more dumbley sounding, and on its gives it a little more hair so to speak.
I like it better off, but its nice to have anyways.

Todd

Also here is a link to some technical data that possibly shows the LNFB plays a larger role when using a buffered loop like the d-lator. It's still subtle, but I did sort of notice that the difference with the LNFB was more pronounced once I had a buffered loop in place. http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14837 (http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14837)

Well, I've been reading through the forums, listening to sound clips, and watching video demos, and it hasn't really nailed down that this is THE BEST CHOICE.

I play contemporary Praise and Worship every week (3, and very soon 4 services a week).  The tones go from clean and chimey, to clean and benign (Jazz cleans), to mild OD, to power ballad OD, to cutting OD, to sustaining cleans for slide (once in a while), to you name it.  I know I'm going to use a Smartulator/C-lator because you HAVE TO USE DELAY, REVERB, and COMPRESSION (and sometimes a touch of something else) with the modern stuff.  I use the tone control a lot for some of it, but volume control is currently out of an expression pedal.  I have three different OD pedals: an OCD, A TS909 Reissue, and Zen 1 OD (mild/rhythm OD, Power OD, and cutting tone/boost respectively) into a Bill M modded Blues Jr (great and versatile version of a decent amp).  I know I can use all the effects in the loop of the new amp for sound options, but I would like to have a good amp driven tone from my OTS when I get it...  Not just have "clean monitor" on the back side of pedals.  I wouldn't need to spend the money for that...

So here's the dilema... Of the Non-HRM OTS line I feel the Mod Eagle 50 head with C-lator is the way to go, but I've heard some equally good things about the HRM (BM and not) and the OD shaping options.

Question is:  With what I've described, which way would the folks with these amps lean?  HRM?, HRM BM?, OTS50 FM ME?

I'll be emailing Nik over the weekend to get his suggestions...

Thanks everyone~~~

Kevster

I dont think anyone will tell you which one to get.
This is your decision!

Now you got a couple weeks to ask as many questions, watch as many clips as possible to make up your mind if you want a kit.

Whichever one you choose will be a good choice

Todd

Todd,

I don't expect someone to make the decision.  I just hoped somebody had a chance to A/B the two and could give me perspective... I know any of them would be a great amp, I'm just thorough...

Since you won't be using your for about 6 weeks, is it OK if I borrow it? ;D :o ???

Im in sacramento or colfax CA actually
You are welcome to come by and play my amps anytime you want!
I saw McInku was here earlier he has had the HRM and Non HRM and could maybe atleast give you his opinion on which one he likes the most. There are a few others that have more than one OTS and can give comparisons.
I had the same trouble trying to decide, I know it aint easy but there also is no wrong decision so good luck man.
BTW the few clips I have heard on the FM do not do justice compared to the tone
Im getting or was getting when I had 2 working hands :D

Todd

Kevster,
I play weekly in a contemporary praise band as well, and I feel for your quest for the ultimate tone setup.  I have a 50W HRM-OTS and am very happy with the clean and singing lead tones.  What i find I miss the most, is all of the lightly overdriven tones or those with a bit of hair around the edges.  As you know, that is a lot of the tones today in worship tunes.  I currently use a very nice TW Express clone.  It is amazing how it changes from clean to mean just by rolling off on the volume of the guitar.  The downside is that it doesn't have an effects loop and I end up running a wet/dry setup.  That's a bunch of stuff to haul around and the sound guy normally complains about board inputs, etc.

I'm on a quest to integrate the HRM-50 full time into my worship setup and have played around a bit with some overdrive pedals to use on the clean channel and cover the light OD sounds.  My OCD seems to cover that ground pretty good.  I also am finding that the Ceriatone is very sensitive to how hard you play and attack the strings, so with some work I think I can cover the broad range of tones.  I wish I could try out a HRM-BM as it seems to cover some of the in between tones pretty well but not sure how much of the liquid lead tones you give up on that model.

Just thought I would give you my 2 cents on the HRM50-OTS.  Good luck, and as others have stated, there probably isn't a really bad choice :)
sean

The OCD is my "light OD" solution as well.  The TS is set almost wide open and the tone nearly off in order to get that deep heavy OD (ala Power Ballad...)  The Zen cuts through great.  I'm also tired of hauling it all around too, but that's a part of the package.

Thanks for the input.  The "sensitivity" of the HRM I've heard about.... That's one of my reservations.  We play multi-electrics every week and even with good monitors, articulation isn't always easy.  I want to be able to "coast" at times if the monitors aren't great.

I have found my modded 50w HRM Bluesmaster to be quite versatile. The clean channel has pretty spot on BF fender sounds and can be pushed into nice smooth overdrive or crunchy overdrive depending on your guitar setup. I also had Nik install a switch to the PAB circuit which allows me to switch between the stock 68k resistor and a 22M resistor. This allows the PAB to act as more of a true boost, really pushes the clean channel to smooth creamy overdrive and pushes the OD channel nicely and gives a beautiful singing sustain to the OD side. I also have the HRM tonestack switchable, which really adds to the versatility and gives more gain to the OD side. This amp takes fuzz pedals very well too, if that is your thing. As far as the bass issues some have mentioned with the BM, they will mellow out and can be easily controlled by simply adjuating your bass control as you normally would adjust your TMB controls for higher volume situations. The c-lator really really helps as well.

Hope this helps!!

Gregg

Thanks man...

I don't know that it helps me because you are speaking my language and you're doing what I want to do...  I often like to push things into a more gainy, but still natural OD.  I like going in the Santana Smooth direction with some of my lead sounds. Sustain, harmonics, etc.  What you describe sounds like it goes into my territory when I want to go big and gnarly. That is what appealed to me about the FM50 ME.  A little darker in color.  Plenty of OD without getting truly distored....

Still on the fence...

Awaiting a reply from Nik.

Reply received from Nik...

It'll be the OTS 50 FM ME with C-Lator. My gut was right, but now I feel even more comfortable with it.

Package 1, assembled board, domestic cab, trannies, and tubes. C'lator as a kit.

Should order it in the next 10 days.

A freestanding reverb unit is off in the distance, but first I've got to get done with this amp.  Nik didn't say he had any reverb units in the pipeline, but he did say they might very well do one in the future.  I would love to have a unit right within a single cab.... I might just see about a custom cab with some extra space inside....

I sense that Nik might be coy about new products so as not to spoil a surprise.  If so, he might have a reverb unit available at any time...

Very cool! You will enjoy it!

I should be enjoying a new OTS very soon.... I JUST ordered it.  Nik says it'll probably be here in about two weeks.

BTW, I'm still looking at some options for an oversized head cab... I'm doing the C-lator in the cab, but I might get it large enough to handle two single-space rack units... One for the C-lator and one for a reverb unit.  The two I'm considering is the Lexicon MX200 if I go digital, or the Peavey Valverb if I go tube.  I've never played with a Valverb, but what I've heard sounded pretty good.  It's a tube reverb that fits in a rack slot...  If it works, I'd use it.

Anybody got any other suggestions or comments on either of these two reverb units?  Anybody ever done the two slot deal in the bottom of the head cabinet?

Thanks everybody!!!

Did you end up getting the FM?

Todd

FM 50 ME with C-Lator.  Nik agreed to do what we talked about before the suspension of selling kits.  I'm doing a quasi-kit.  No tubes, no cab, no trannies, but assembled/wired.  The C-lator is going to be complete.

The cleans are exactly what I want, but the OD is where there was any question... I like what I hear out there, but it sounds like the ME will have all the characteristics I want.  A shade darker, but hopefully still creamy.  That may be a matter of picking the right tubes. 

How's your amp burning in?  Pros/Cons?

What do you think about the extra slot/reverb idea?

Well as far as burning in goes I did not notice as much tone change as others here.
I liked the sound from day 1. But when I put new speakers in my cab, it took a week or so to get them sounding theyre best.
Since I've gotten it so much has changed from the tubes I used to the speakers, settings, etc. I cant really tell what burned in.
The only thing I've noticed degraded the tone was when I put my JJ 6l6's back in to save my ANOS Sylvanias some play time. The Sylvanias are so much warmer, creamier. They are off by a few Millivolts on the bias so that may contribute to the sound I like as well. The JJ's are just much stiffer sounding.

You'll like it either way, Im sure

Todd

Todd or Anyone Else,

I want to price out a cab, but I don't have all the info I need...

What is the clearance of the either the tubes or trannies and the bottom of the standard cab?? I know that the C-lator fits in the taller cab with little clearance from the amp components, but I wanted to make sure I had eonough inside clearance for an extra 1u rack space below the C-lator.

Anyone know the inside clearance on standard cab?

Thanks everyone!!!

I'll measure mine this afternoon and get back to you!

The lowest part under the chassis is the tubes, so if you took the height of a 6l6 and then add 1 1/2" under it for clearance than add the height of 2 rack units you would be fine as well.

I will get back to you with exact dimensions though

Todd

Thanks Bro!!!

Hey Kevster

My cab right now is 11" top to bottom. The OT is actually the lowest part of the amp! It is 7" from top of cab to OT.
My cab is built from 3/4 ply. My C-lator is approx 1 3/4 in height.
If I was to have this same cab built for 2 rack units with plenty of room for tube removal it would be 14-15" from top of cab to bottom of cab, hope that helps somewhat

Todd

Many thanks man!!! Yeah, I thought the standard cab was supposed to be 10" high.  At 7" for the bottom of the transformer, the interior of a standard cab should have about 2" clearance.  The C-lator and a rack shoul add 3 1/2", but a minimum of 14" is a safe bet.

Thanks again.

No problem at all

Heres a pic of my 11 incher :o

Add 3 inches and your good to go

Mine is not a standard Dumble cab but actually a 2Rock style which I guess is just 1" taller.

Todd

Cool! Thats very nice lookin setup!

very nice! i'm thinking about building and attaching a little enclosure to the top of my combo for my c-lator. i like the one built in the head, though

Wow, great looking rig Todd!! Cool to see a little amp porn!!!

Thanks again!

Now where are the audioi clips of it?

Thanks guys

Well just got my cast off my right hand yesterday, so Im learning how to play guitar again. Been a thumbpicker for the last six weeks.

I have spent too much money on amp kits to be able to afford a proper recording device at the moment as well. ;D

I promise eventually I will get something posted, but it may be a while. Man it's hard to compete with some of them clips by Sami and Mcinku though, I actually have been modifying my style to fit these amps. Everything I played before was more high gain and hid the mistakes that I constantly make ;)

BTW credit for the Head cab and 2x12 go to Henry, username: Tenguitars. Found him in the classified section here. Great guy to deal with. As soon as I build my HRM I plan on getting him to build me another one.

Thanks again guys

Todd

FM50 ME and C-Lator in transit as of today...

Officially joining the club very, very soon.

sweeeeett!!! :chairdance:

Yeah, I'm in the club, but it'll be a few weeks before I can do anything much with it.  I just got a big job in that'll keep me busy for a bit, and then I've got several music projects that require attention over a couple week stretch.

I'm building cabs too, so it is a little bit more involved.

I have a FM-50 ME that is now up and running on the bench and I've put about 6 hours in it. What a change, or series of changes, those 6 hours makes. I'm using the C-lator as is common/recommended. Here's the progress so far:

Fire-up: After I got it going (thanks to Todd for the assist), I had two overdrive channels. Literally, both channels were overdrives. I started out without the Dumbleator in the loop, but even with it both channels were overdriven. I had the "Volume" on the clean channel at minimum and still getting the OD above about 5 on the guitar volume. The OD channel sounded best with the OD Trimmer on about 2:00.

Two-Three Hours: The loop has been added and I've got all the knobs in the 9-11 range. I can turn the "Out" to 5:00 for more volume, but no need (I'm married... ;D). Starting to see some harmonics coming out, and the clean channel is losing the "overdrive". The overdrive is becoming "grittier" and I'm backing down the OD Trimmer.

Five-Six Hours: I have a clean channel. I turn it up to max and I get cleans until the guitar volume knob is above 7, and above that it is all about pick attack. The break-up is minimal. The OD is gaining in harmonics and I now have the Trimmer at about 9:00...

I'm using Magnetic Component trannies and the PT has an extra 15V on the mains, but I don't know if this is normal or not. I don't know for sure that there is a real normal... Anyway, my plate voltage is 458V and 468V respectively. I haven't touched that yet as it isn't too far off optimal (1.5%). My bias is at 37.x and 38.x with my bias pot at minimum, but at fire-up it was more than double that. I don't know how to get it below that without modding the amp.

My test speaker is a 4 Ohm Crate speaker in a combo SS amp my wife bought for $20 at a yard sale. Obviously, this is not an optimum speaker for a D-style amp, but I'm just testing at low volumes right now and it is nothing more than a functional test speaker.

I'm using two Winged C 6L6GC's (matched), a JJ 12AX7 Long Plate Gold Pin in the PI, and two Sovtek 12AX7s in the V1 and V2. I couldn't go NOS right off the bat...

So, anything sound abnormal here? Is the Plate Voltage a big issue? I'd like to get the bias down to about 35mV, but I wouldn't think the extra 10% should be too bad.

I will say that this amp's clean channel is probably on par with my best Fender right now and still improving fast. The OD is the "sound" I go for with a Zen and a Fender, but I'm looking for more harmonics and bloom as it continues to evolve. I feel like the burn-in is still ongoing and significant changes as each hour progressed. I know that 25+/- hours has been stated here numerous times, so it may still be a while.

Does the description sound "typical" for these amps?

Thanks guys for all the info that helped make this a reality!!!

On this link at the bottom click on voltage chart!
On the excel file go to the FM50 and check every mentioned voltage while writing down your readings.
Since your PT is a higher secondary I would expect some minimal difference in voltages. Let us know if anything is way off

http://www.ceriatone.com/tlbrBorderSub/link.htm

Todd

I have to go out of state to testify in court re: a real estate foreclosure... I leave tomorrow morning and will be gone a couple days.  I'll check these when I get back.  I'd forgotten about the Voltage Chart... Thanks Todd!!!!

Do most of you use a Zoom or a Tascam device for recording your clips and putting them on here?

When I do post them in the future, I'll use none of the above... I've used a cheap DAW software and the standard microphone jack on my PC with a SM58 dynamic mic and gotten good results.  The software is old and cheap, but it gets the job done. I used the software and a DAW hard disc recorder to do a few demo's for a local guy a couple of years ago. I used a combination of a condenser mic and a dynamic mic on the guitar, a dynamic on the vocal scratch, and a condenser on the final vocal.  Here's a link to Turn The Page:

http://www.myspace.com/waynetibbles/music/songs/turn-the-page-bobsegar-50881732 (http://www.myspace.com/waynetibbles/music/songs/turn-the-page-bobsegar-50881732)

Just him and an acoustic.  Vocal scratch during the first take then a vocal final to his acoustic from the first take.  The guy nails it everytime like a machine.  Whether he does it like the original or not, he is consistent with himself....   

I've got the FM50 ME that I'm finishing up and going to be taking public in the next month or so... I've voiced it a little different thanks to some serious help around here.  Thanks SO MUCH!!!!! So I'm going back to the well again.... ;D

I'm using the C-lator, and I'm going to have a G Major II in an extended, two-rack space head cab (just got the cabinet joints glued in the garage yesterday).  I got the G Major II about two weeks ago, and I DO hear the impact of the "digital" in the effects. On the advice of some around here, I've been looking at the Suhr Minimix II since I'd decided to go with a rack effects unit. So before I pulled the trigger on the Suhr, I wanted to see if anyone had any opinion on either the Minimix II or the Xotic X-Blender. The $50+/- difference in price makes it worth asking about. So....

I know that a number of players use these effects interfaces, so anybody have any good or bad experiences with either? Are the extra X-Blender features worth getting it? I've not heard any negative reviews of either, but I leaned toward the Minimix II because Suhr has an amazing reputation.

If I go with the Minimix II, it'll go in the bottom rear of the head cab. The X-Blender would have to go on the floor (size and to access the controls).

I'm also looking forward to a Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro in the new year. If anybody would recommend something different on the midi foot controller front too, please do...

I'm going to be pulling the trigger on either the MinimixII or the X-Blender in a couple of weeks. I'm planning on a January 1 debut for the rig. Then I'll probably add and/or subtract some pedals over the next six months to a year, so then I'll be able to integrate the midi controller once the rig is stabilized.

Wow, talk about being efficient with my posts!!! One thread for everything.

Thanks everyone!!!!

I looked at both the Mini-mix and the x-blender when i was considering going Parallel, and I liked both of em. The X-blender has the nice abilty to go from series to parallel at your toes which i found appealing, plus the added touch of the boost, phase, and the bass and treble tone stack.

In the end, i wound up sticking with the c-lator only as the only two effects i use in the loop, the RE-20 space echo and the Holy Grail Nano don't sound overly digital, sound very good in serial mode, and don't suffer from tone suckage when bypassed.

What really stinks is that i believe the original G-Major was able to be run as serial and parallel. Although I did a little reading on a review on the G-Major II at musicplayers.com and found something you may find interesting.

"As with both the classic G-Major and the modern G-System, TC Electronic provides a few preset routing options for the chain of effects: Serial, Semi Parallel, Parallel, and Serial 2. In all cases, the filters and compressors come first. The signal is then routed as illustrated": (i'll attach the images to the post)


"While users of the older TC Electronic G-Force will once again lament the absence of completely programmable routing options (as they did with the G-System’s similar scheme), we have no issues with it. The partially fixed signal path ensures seamless patch changes with delay and reverb tail spillovers, which you don’t typically get from gear that allows for the full re-ordering of a signal chain".


"The Serial 2 Routing option is similar to the Serial option, but it places the entire modulation effect block in a return loop of the delay block in order to create modulated delays. With this approach, you can add any type of modulation to any of the delay types, which is far more flexible than simply having a Rate and Depth chorus option tacked onto the end of a single delay line."

I don't know of you have messed sround with routing the effects internally in a parallel function and if it will help or not, but if you haven't give it try! Who knows, it could save you from having to buy a parallel mixer.

Hope this helps!

Gregg

Thanks Gregg!

I've got it in "parallel" now.  The G Major II does NOT go parallel in the true sense of the word.  It will stack several effects in parallel so as to remove (or inversely, add) the cascading effect on the signal, but it does not operate in parallel in the sense of signal throughput.... It still goes through a digital box and comes out the other side.  I'd looked at the routing options when I was shopping and thought that might be a big plus, but it ended up not being a solution...

Either the X-Blender or the Minimix II should sound OK I would think... I don't know that I want the new pedal on my board!!! I'm trying to thin the herd with the rack unit!!!! LOL

Thanks for the feedback!

No prob! If i recall, most of the guys using the minimix just put it near the amp with short run cables and run it parallel all the time, if that helps your decision any ;)

OK... My 50W OTS FM ME has been up and running for a while now and it is in the now finished cab. I need to do a couple of tweaks to the electronics still so I'm not really "done with it", but I've been using it at church for a couple weeks now.  This weekend I use the onboard G Major II for the effects...

So I had a question about one of the mods I'm considering.  I'm thinking about eliminating the PAB "manual" option and switch on the back and (in its place) I thought about putting in a rotary switch instead.  The switch would be wired with resistors ranging between the stock 10M (about parity for volume with Rock and Deep engaged) and 22M as you find with the Mega-PAB mod.  The reason to do it (at all) is obvious, to increase the boost from the stock level.  I really think the appropriate amount of "boost" isn't static to all playing situations or songs, so having options might be good.  I feel like whatever value (or boost) I chose would always be a compromise.  I really don't like to settle on anything with this rig....

So, if I did the mod using several different values, it would work for now to give some time to find the "right value". I do plan to add a midi foot controller next year, so that brings me to another set of dynamics effecting my options.  If I like the variety and feel of the multi-value/boost mod, I might create an external midi-controlled "boost module" that would give me outboard contol of the boost rather than using a manual switch.  Too soon to say on that though... I want to see how it works out first.

So here are my questions for the resident experts...

Has anyone tried this or something similar? 

What do y'all think?

Thanks for any feedback.

have you thought about using a 10M pot instead? in series with a 10M resistor so you can have variable PAB gain?

I'd thought about both, but I'm not quite sure how I could make that work with midi... Defined values I can do, but a variable value I haven't got a clue.  It may be doable and I just have to find the right info...

Is this something you've heard done?