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Author Topic: Speaker Choice for 100w Bluesmaster 1x12cab  (Read 22786 times)
plasticvonaband
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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2011, 09:03:17 PM »
Quote from: Tone Control on April 22, 2011, 08:52:23 PM
Quote from: plasticvonaband on April 22, 2011, 06:59:19 PM
i don't think the Red, White and Blues sounds close to a G12-65 at all, in my opinion. although the design is similar with the ribs on the cone and the mesh dome, it is a different magnet structure all together, and has a higher wattage raiting as well, which effects the overall tone of the speaker. that being said, it couldn't hurt to try it, or its "cousin" as emience says, the governor.

In reality, it all comes down to what your ears like, and what tone you want to hear. Try out a bunch and see what ya like! ya never know, having a vast collection of speakers could come in handy one day, as they all sound different and may help you find a tone that is "in your head" down the road


Yes, keep a good range in stock. Tastes do differ, I definitely use my amps in my own way
But if you're buying a speaker  for a specific amp, my advice is to start with the speakers everyone else recommends.
As I say, I tried several with the BM, and was not impressed with the amp until I bought Celestion Golds, I might have even sold the amp and kept the Fuchs

I agree with that as well. I went with the G12-65's as that was what the majority of guys recommended for the OTS. I will be trying the EVM-12 and Celestion Golds as well, just to see what the sound differences are, and may even try mixing them up
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Tone Control
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« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2011, 09:42:49 PM »
Quote from: plasticvonaband on April 22, 2011, 09:03:17 PM
I agree with that as well. I went with the G12-65's as that was what the majority of guys recommended for the OTS. I will be trying the EVM-12 and Celestion Golds as well, just to see what the sound differences are, and may even try mixing them up

the majority said G12-65 for the OTS or the BluesMaster?
I can run my OTS with several speakers, but the BM is fussier

Mixing drivers is worth trying, but the results can be counter-intuitive, since with 2 in parallel, you usually don't just get 50/50 the characteristics of both, you get (like with having kids) chunks of each one's characteristics, since the inductance/reactance/impedance/whatever is not similar for 2 diff drivers, so a bright driver may sound dull, since the other driver had lower impedance for higher frequencies, etc.
I found running a Fane AXA12 and a Celestion Gold in parallel that the Gold was louder, even though the sensitivity indicates the opposite.
So - approach mismatching drivers without thinking the result is predictable.
If you do this, I'd start with the Matchless and Badcat pairings first, Mark Sampson put a lot of time and money into finding those combinations (which are much cheaper than alnico drivers too)
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
plasticvonaband
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« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2011, 10:24:45 PM »
Quote from: Tone Control on April 22, 2011, 09:42:49 PM
Quote from: plasticvonaband on April 22, 2011, 09:03:17 PM
I agree with that as well. I went with the G12-65's as that was what the majority of guys recommended for the OTS. I will be trying the EVM-12 and Celestion Golds as well, just to see what the sound differences are, and may even try mixing them up

the majority said G12-65 for the OTS or the BluesMaster?
I can run my OTS with several speakers, but the BM is fussier

Mixing drivers is worth trying, but the results can be counter-intuitive, since with 2 in parallel, you usually don't just get 50/50 the characteristics of both, you get (like with having kids) chunks of each one's characteristics, since the inductance/reactance/impedance/whatever is not similar for 2 diff drivers, so a bright driver may sound dull, since the other driver had lower impedance for higher frequencies, etc.
I found running a Fane AXA12 and a Celestion Gold in parallel that the Gold was louder, even though the sensitivity indicates the opposite.
So - approach mismatching drivers without thinking the result is predictable.
If you do this, I'd start with the Matchless and Badcat pairings first, Mark Sampson put a lot of time and money into finding those combinations (which are much cheaper than alnico drivers too)

absolutely! it's interesting that you found that the Celestion was louder than the Fane. I was thinking that if i went with the EVM it would overpower the Weber. Hmm.

As far as recommendations go, the 3 top recommendations I got were #1 EVM12, #2 G12-65, and #3 Celestion Gold. My final choice was determined ultimately by putting them in a hat and pulling out the 1265. I went with Weber because i have used their drivers before and have always been happy with em. So far, they seem to be a great match for my particular Bluesmaster, which doesn't seem to be as bass heavy as some of the others now that it has broken in and the OD channel defintely isn't since i bypassed the HRM tonestack. I def want to try the EVM's though. I think two of those will be my next purchase
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mustardcustard6
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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2011, 01:45:30 AM »
How about fane medussas, scumback m75-hdlc, or wgs blackhawks? Anyone have experiences with these who would like to provide tonal descriptions/opinions? Especially with this amp. I'm more concerned with the cleans and slightly overdriven blues tones.

All of your inputs have been great so far. I'm leaning toward the Evm12l but I hear it can get kind of ice picky. 100w Fane axa is also in mind. For me the celestion g1265 is ideal, but can't run it in a 100w 112.
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2011, 03:52:37 PM »
Quote from: mustardcustard6 on April 23, 2011, 01:45:30 AM
How about fane medussas, scumback m75-hdlc, or wgs blackhawks? Anyone have experiences with these who would like to provide tonal descriptions/opinions? Especially with this amp. I'm more concerned with the cleans and slightly overdriven blues tones.

All of your inputs have been great so far. I'm leaning toward the Evm12l but I hear it can get kind of ice picky. 100w Fane axa is also in mind. For me the celestion g1265 is ideal, but can't run it in a 100w 112.

what was your final decision?
I have just bought a Fuchs EVM12L cab, so should have tried everything bar the G12-65 soon

btw does anyone know what drivers are in the Badcat 2x12? a v30 and something else with no label on it

cheers
Tone
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
sonicmojo
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« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2011, 04:44:48 AM »
I just picked up an older EVM-12L in a beat up 1x12 cab for cheap on CL, but the speaker is in excellent shape.  As a single speaker, it seems more defined and significantly louder than my WGS ET65.  If I were to run only one speaker, this is now it for me.  I'm thinking of pairing it with a Weber Michigan 12 (Weber's take on the EV) in a 2x12.  Has anyone compared the two?
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« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2011, 05:25:31 AM »
@Tone Control The amp is being built as we speak, but I'm gonna go with the EVM 12L as of now. The head will be a 100w hrm bluesmaster, so the speaker needed to handle that. Pretty much only the EVM can do that; without having to worry about it when pushed.

I'll let you know how it turns out (in about 6 wks). Anyone else have experience with the EVM's in a 1x12? Tonal descriptions would be nice/pros and cons of the speaker.
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212Mavguy
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« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2011, 12:09:06 PM »
Great thread... 

Here's 2 more:  JBL g125 and g135.  Not made anymore and hard to find.  Both have the same motors, 3 inch flat ribbon wire voice coil, 12 1/2 pound magnet.  They came from some of the same engineers that did up the Altec 417/418 and EVM 12l/12s/15l speakers.  g125 is rated at
102db 1 watt 1 meter, the 135 at 104.  Frequency response from both speakers is perfect for D-style tones. 

JBL took in most of the guitar speakers in the market over a 3 year period into their lab to do the research to come up with these, and they only sold them for a year or two.   

I have an ev 12s style speaker made by Altec before EV came into existence.  It is very similar to the 12l except for a slightly shallower cone.  Between the JBL and the EV type the JBL is darker and a bit smoother.  Both have big bottom, full mids, and top end capable of reproducing excellent harmonic detail.
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2011, 02:18:09 PM »
Agree with pickmaster about the FANE AXIOM STUDIO 12L. 200 w - Sensitivity: 102 dB - a classic speaker, that has been on the market in 20-30 years. Very similar to the EV12L, but without the icepick frequencies that the EV has.

Another fine speaker for Dumble amps is the old Eminence Kappa pro, which is also quite similar to the EV, but again without the (IMO) annoying frequencies that the EV seem to suffer from if you use it at home at lower volumes. It's way better when you play louder, IMO.

I use a TL806 type bas-reflex cabinet for these above mentioned speaker units.

My preferred speaker  - I must admit, is a Cel 12G65 in an open back cabinet - its portable and loud.

So I guess my 'hall of fame' or canon for Dumble amps would be:

1) Celestion 12G65 (either 1x12 or 2x12 in open back)
2) Fane Studio 12L (In ported TL806 cabinet)
3) Eminence Kappa Pro (In ported TL806 cabinet)
4) EV12L (In ported TL806 cabinet) - for live use (not bedroom practice)

Havent tried other 'open cabinet' speakers, but I'm sure a lot of the new'er Eminence speakers are god choices as well, such as the Emi tonker , tonker lite, swamp thing and cannabis rex.

Have heard a lot of positive things about the warehouse WGS speakers.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 02:32:21 PM by bluesfendermanblues » Logged
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boldaslove6789
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2011, 09:03:42 PM »
+1 I agree. Same config here but this instead:

1) Celestion 12G65 (2x12 open back)
2) Eminence Texas Heat (In ported 1x12 cabinet)
3) EV12L (2x12 cab)

Actually I've been digging a ported 2x12 with a Celestion g1265 and an Eminence Texas heat lately...
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2011, 12:20:32 PM »
Quote from: mustardcustard6 on May 11, 2011, 05:25:31 AM
@Tone Control The amp is being built as we speak, but I'm gonna go with the EVM 12L as of now. The head will be a 100w hrm bluesmaster, so the speaker needed to handle that. Pretty much only the EVM can do that; without having to worry about it when pushed.

I'll let you know how it turns out (in about 6 wks). Anyone else have experience with the EVM's in a 1x12? Tonal descriptions would be nice/pros and cons of the speaker.

I have an really old EVM12L which I use in a slightly oversized 1x12 (Zilla Cabs Mini Modern) with my Bluesmaster 100. Initial impressions at home volume were that this amp has a serious amount of bass end which was hard to dial out - opening the cab back tamed this slightly but the amp is not as bass heavy at gigging volume. I haven't noticed any ice pick tendencies - maybe because of the speakers age?

I'm liking the amp better with the bright switch on ATM so it may be worth considering changing or modding this at some stage. The amp can sound quite muffled with it off but I'm still experimenting with adjusting the presence (currently set high) and treble (set around 4/5) controls.

I've had this speaker up against a loud 4x12 and it actually cut through better than the half stack! These speakers seem to be bomb proof so I think you're making a good choice.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 12:36:21 PM by citizen » Logged
Tone Control
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2011, 07:43:10 PM »
Quote from: citizen on May 15, 2011, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: mustardcustard6 on May 11, 2011, 05:25:31 AM
@Tone Control The amp is being built as we speak, but I'm gonna go with the EVM 12L as of now. The head will be a 100w hrm bluesmaster, so the speaker needed to handle that. Pretty much only the EVM can do that; without having to worry about it when pushed.

I'll let you know how it turns out (in about 6 wks). Anyone else have experience with the EVM's in a 1x12? Tonal descriptions would be nice/pros and cons of the speaker.

I have an really old EVM12L which I use in a slightly oversized 1x12 (Zilla Cabs Mini Modern) with my Bluesmaster 100. Initial impressions at home volume were that this amp has a serious amount of bass end which was hard to dial out - opening the cab back tamed this slightly but the amp is not as bass heavy at gigging volume. I haven't noticed any ice pick tendencies - maybe because of the speakers age?

I'm liking the amp better with the bright switch on ATM so it may be worth considering changing or modding this at some stage. The amp can sound quite muffled with it off but I'm still experimenting with adjusting the presence (currently set high) and treble (set around 4/5) controls.

I've had this speaker up against a loud 4x12 and it actually cut through better than the half stack! These speakers seem to be bomb proof so I think you're making a good choice.

There are 2 reasons I can think of for why you get less bass live
(A) any speaker put near a wall or corner will get reinforcement of bass frequencies. Small hifi speakers depend on this. On stage, you lose this completely
(B) The BM amps vary in trebly-ness hugely depending on whether you run the input vol high and the master vol low (brighter), or the input vol low and the master vol high (darker) Do you run it quieter with the input vol or the master? I have to use very high settings on the treble and presence, and very low on the bass.
I think this is a dark amp, which may well match the EVM12L well, I'll tell you when I collect my EVM12L soon. It sounds as if an EVM12L is a very useful addition to anyone's tone pallette anyway, so it should be low-risk
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
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« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2011, 01:54:49 AM »
The way I've been using my Bluesmaster sounds messed up - Settings are usually in an around the following: volume 5, treble 4, mid 4, bass 2, master vol 5, overdrive trim 12 o'clock, overdrive 4, overdrive volume 4.

I've been using the overdrive channel for dirty rhythm sounds and switching to the clean channel (sometimes with a slight boost along with the clean PAB, for solos.. The clean channel seems to cut through and emphasise each note much better than the O/d channel, which no matter how much I tweak, just seems to have washed out mids...

@ Tone - u said the amp gets brighter with the input volume pushed and the master kept low.. Does this not overly compress or saturate the O/D channel or do you set the o/d trimmer pretty low...

Do you gig your Bluesmaster?
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« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2011, 05:25:38 AM »
Quote from: citizen on May 16, 2011, 01:54:49 AM
The way I've been using my Bluesmaster sounds messed up - Settings are usually in an around the following: volume 5, treble 4, mid 4, bass 2, master vol 5, overdrive trim 12 o'clock, overdrive 4, overdrive volume 4.

I've been using the overdrive channel for dirty rhythm sounds and switching to the clean channel (sometimes with a slight boost along with the clean PAB, for solos.. The clean channel seems to cut through and emphasise each note much better than the O/d channel, which no matter how much I tweak, just seems to have washed out mids...

@ Tone - u said the amp gets brighter with the input volume pushed and the master kept low.. Does this not overly compress or saturate the O/D channel or do you set the o/d trimmer pretty low...

Do you gig your Bluesmaster?

there's no one way to use these, so you can use clean as lead if you want.

I have clean as a nice clean channel, and loud (gig volume). OD just adds a little grit
For a strat, Vol=2-3
Treble=8-9
Mid=3-4
Bass=2
Drive=3
Level=5
Master=7-8
Presence=8-9
HRM set to roll off the treble a lot
OD trim around 12 oclock

My point was that it's a dark amp, and at gig volume, the way I use it is darker still, so to avoid using the bright switch, I dial up the treble and presence a lot
With a humbucker, I do use the bright switch instead
I haven't really used the OD much with input Volume high

Make sure you have the deep switch right (Up on mine)
Nik's layout diagram is reversed (and he was building them reversed too), so deep is on when down on mine, which would add to your bass problems
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
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