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Author Topic: Power tubes  (Read 31180 times)
Emiel
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« on: April 19, 2010, 01:11:41 PM »

Hi,

I'm interested to know if any of you tried power tubes other than 6L6. Here and there I've read some views on 5881 and 6V6 but not here yet!
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KV
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 04:33:47 PM »

I am also interested in this subject.  Especially tonal/dynamic differences between 6L6 and 6V6.  There are just some gigs where the 6L6's are just too much - especially with 212's.  And I don't want to add another moving part (power attenuator). 

Thanks!





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bobgoblin
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 05:12:23 PM »

JJ 6v6's might be able to take the voltages the OTS will pump through them, but I wouldn't risk using them.

As far as tonal differences, in various amps, I've found that 6v6's are nowhere near as smooth sounding as 6L6's.  In fact, the ragged nature of 6v6 overdrive is such that I can't stand using them for anything but early tweed Fenders.

The OTS has a great master volume, though, and in my experience, even with a 2x12 you should be able to get a good, low volume tone.  Of course, your experience and mine are different, & I hope that you find a solution.
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JD0x0
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 08:41:26 PM »

EL-34's are the way to go IMO
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Emiel
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 08:47:01 PM »

As far as tonal differences, in various amps, I've found that 6v6's are nowhere near as smooth sounding as 6L6's.  In fact, the ragged nature of 6v6 overdrive is such that I can't stand using them for anything but early tweed Fenders.

It's all down to taste isn't it..! If I understand it correctly you find the 6V6 much too raw sounding in this amp?

EL-34's are the way to go IMO

Thanks! Could you tell us why? What did you attract to the EL34 tubes?
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JD0x0
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 03:43:41 PM »




Thanks! Could you tell us why? What did you attract to the EL34 tubes?

The first thing i noticed about them is that the low end sounded much tighter. Before the low notes were very mushy. Now instead of a big mushy mess on the low E string i get a nice warm twang.

to me the EL34's can put out a wider frequency range but the frequencies are more balanced giving a nice even tone without harshness but still get a nice bright sparkle on the high end. Where as the 6L6 has a narrower freq range but it has more of the highs and lows it can produce, which is why lots of people find them more sparkly (I find it harsh compared to EL34's) but also the lows are more boomy and muddy.


this weekend i got to crank my amp up with the 34's and it sounded perfect. To me with the 6L6's they sound worse as you turn them up because that loose flabby bas becomes much more pronounced and the sponginess of the 6L6 attack becomes too spongy. The EL34's have a snappier and faster attack especially at low volumes, which is why when you crank them up they sound perfect IMO


Just as a side note the EL34's im using are run of the mill Chinese branded sino/shuguang. biased at about 50ma
The 6L6's i tried were JJ's, A set of mesa 6l6GC's and also tungsol 5881's. IMO the EL34's blew them all away with stock bias (around 37ma)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 03:47:25 PM by JD0x0 » Logged

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Emiel
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 07:36:22 PM »

Thank you for your thorough reply! Couldn't be better Smiley

Sounds like EL34 is more in my ballpark! Last question: what do you think of the cleans now? I can imagine that without the 6L6, it would sound a bit more British(/Hiwatt?) and less American/Fender style?


To the others: don't forget to tell your stories about 6V6's, 5881's, KT66's...!
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Steven_nl
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2010, 07:46:02 PM »

I use 5881's (so does LC). I lioke the sound (not a specialist though)
 Unfortunatly it seems I have fried mine cause I blew my HT fuse.
I do have a pair of Winged C's lying around, but I felt they sounded a bit cold. Might try them again though
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KV
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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2010, 01:56:51 AM »

JJ 6v6's might be able to take the voltages the OTS will pump through them, but I wouldn't risk using them.

As far as tonal differences, in various amps, I've found that 6v6's are nowhere near as smooth sounding as 6L6's.  In fact, the ragged nature of 6v6 overdrive is such that I can't stand using them for anything but early tweed Fenders.

The OTS has a great master volume, though, and in my experience, even with a 2x12 you should be able to get a good, low volume tone.  Of course, your experience and mine are different, & I hope that you find a solution.

Thanks Bobgoblin,

All this stuff is so subjective.  I was just looking to lower the power to turn up the amp.

JDOxO makes some interesting points about EL34's.  Somebody had said on some thread a while ago that the power tubes didn't matter tonewise because of the preamp design - which was the first time I'd heard that about a guitar amp.  That prompted my question.

Sounds like most people agree that power tubes make a tonal difference with the OTS?


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JD0x0
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2010, 02:38:00 AM »

I think they may have been mistaken. The power tubes certainly matter. I think the point the poster was trying to make is that you generally want the power section to stay clean (so your clean channel stays clean) Youre not really going to want to get power tube overdrive with this settup due to the two channel settup, which is probably why they said that. where as on something like an old Plexi you need the power tube overdrive to get that signature sound.
That being said each power tube has different characteristics when their clean too (although the differences between the tubes become more pronounced when you overdrive them. ex. 6L6 Looseness)

Not only is it the sound that changes but tubes can also change the "feel" of the amp. And IMO the "feel" and tone of an amp can sometimes change how the player plays, which will (again) change the tone to some degree since 75% of tone is in the fingers
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 02:43:29 AM by JD0x0 » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2010, 04:30:32 AM »

I think they may have been mistaken. The power tubes certainly matter. I think the point the poster was trying to make is that you generally want the power section to stay clean (so your clean channel stays clean) Youre not really going to want to get power tube overdrive with this settup due to the two channel settup, which is probably why they said that. where as on something like an old Plexi you need the power tube overdrive to get that signature sound.
That being said each power tube has different characteristics when their clean too (although the differences between the tubes become more pronounced when you overdrive them. ex. 6L6 Looseness)

Not only is it the sound that changes but tubes can also change the "feel" of the amp. And IMO the "feel" and tone of an amp can sometimes change how the player plays, which will (again) change the tone to some degree since 75% of tone is in the fingers

So JDOxO,

I read elsewhere that you were really into the kt88's...they still working for you or are you an el34 man?  How did the KT88's compare to the 6l6?

 I have el34's in my Juke 1210 and like them alot but bought the OTS for a different flavor.  Do you get that midrange thing with the el34's?

Thanks again
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Hayden
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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2010, 04:55:05 AM »

Noob question.
Is the structure of the OTS such that you can interchange just 6L6's with just EL34's at will or is this a decision that is made at the time of building the amplfier?

Eg I can't put EL34's in my Bassman as it is structured to only use 6L6's.

Thanks
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JD0x0
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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2010, 04:01:40 PM »


So JDOxO,

I read elsewhere that you were really into the kt88's...they still working for you or are you an el34 man?  How did the KT88's compare to the 6l6?

 I have el34's in my Juke 1210 and like them alot but bought the OTS for a different flavor.  Do you get that midrange thing with the el34's?

Thanks again

Well i have the KT88's in my other Dumble clone, which is what made me swap to the El34's in my OTS. I wasnt sure if my OTS could handle the 88's stock so i didnt bother.

The 88's are monsters compared to 6L6's way more bass and clean headroom with overall similar tone to the 34's. There are rumors of a KT120 coming out from tung sol in the near future that supposidly can get 160 watts out of a pair. That will be my next tube swap Grin

IMO the 34's did have a slightly different mid range characteristic. I think the biggest difference i notice though is the tighter bass and the highs that sound like the presence knob is turned up alot more
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JD0x0
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« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2010, 04:04:32 PM »

Noob question.
Is the structure of the OTS such that you can interchange just 6L6's with just EL34's at will or is this a decision that is made at the time of building the amplfier?

Eg I can't put EL34's in my Bassman as it is structured to only use 6L6's.

Thanks

They are swappable on both amps with a rebias. This can be done on most amps provided that the plate voltages are high enough for the EL34's but low enough that the 6L6's wont melt.

you'd probably have to swap thetube rectifier for a SS rectifier on the bassman which will bring the voltages up. Weber and a few other copanies sell plug in replacements
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Emiel
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2010, 08:38:43 AM »

Great replies! Many thanks for that. Keep them coming Smiley

Anyone tried 5881's or 6V6's?
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