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Author Topic: overtone  (Read 24414 times)
plasticvonaband
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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2013, 02:20:00 AM »
Quote from: hywelg on February 08, 2013, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: wbfree on February 08, 2013, 11:02:56 AM
I will be getting another amp either the HRM or the 70's voiced DT50 from Bill..

I wouldn't, unless you play on one for a fair time. It might be that this style of amp isn't for you. The clean can be very revealing of poor technique

this is very true. i have gone back to using flatwounds and mostly fingerpicking since i got my BM. The darn thing picks up every lil noise Smiley

Gregg
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2013, 07:49:53 AM »
Quote from: plasticvonaband on February 09, 2013, 01:38:32 AM
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My other question..sorry, is this..I ordered a matched pair of SED winged C 6l6gc's and they won't bias lower than 61 mv. The tubes I am replacing are JJ 6l6gc's and I set the bias way low to see if I was doing something wrong, at 18 mv to be specific, and the SED won't go lower than 61 mv. Are these SED's too hot, am I missing something because quite frankly I am ready to throw this amp in the trash. I have had nothing but bad luck. You guys talk about the great tone..I have no tone clean or OD. I can't turn the 100k OD pot underneath on the circuit board past 8:30 or it just gets too noisy, real noisy

Not for nothin, but it sounds like the knob you are turning for the OD trim is actually the Bias pot. the Bias pot usually under the circuit board (the bulk of it) the shaft and knob usually pokes out the bottom. on most dumbles and clones, The OD trim will be a small trimpot basically sitting over V2 and its circuitry with the adjustment slot facing horizontal towards the front or rear of the chassis. There should also be another trimpot over V3 for the PI trim.

Agan, this could be the case and having the Bias too low can cause crossover distorion, and too high can make the amp muddy and undefined, and could burn the tubes up, shorting them out and causing your transformer woes as well.

Again this is just a theory, and i wouldn't be able to prove it without pics of what ya got.

Keep rockin, man! My dad is 72, still works a full time job and rocks as well!

Hope this helps!

Gregg
Hi Gregg
Unless I am missing something which is always possible my bias pot is in between my 2 output tubes. I lowered it to 18mv with my JJ 6l6gc's in and then pulled them and put in the winged C's and got a reading of 61mv. Here is a picture of the pot..I hope this is correct. I could be wrong. My amp was made in 2008 so things could change.
Bdog
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* IMAG0078.jpg (1226.99 KB, 3264x1952 - viewed 662 times.)
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2013, 08:02:40 AM »
Yup that's it!!! Very odd that there is such a disparity between the two sets. Have you tried adjusting the pot up and down with the Winged C's in there? Are they both reading 61mv? If they are, and lowering the bias voltage doesn't help i'd say something is off with the tubes, the bias circuit, or the HT circuits somewhere. very strange. i'd try adjusting the bias pot with the winged c's and if that doesn't work try another set and if that doesn't work take her to the tech


Gregg
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hywelg
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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2013, 09:49:54 AM »
If you are reaching behind the amp and twisting a knob between the power valves you are indeed adjusting the bias. If however there is a knob on the rear fascia, that will either be the FET level control or the OD Trim. To my knowledge Nik has never put the bias adjust on the rear plate.

As regards my settings, not much point me passing them on as I have changed quite a few components and I run a 12AT7 in v2. I rarely use my clean channel on its own, I use it as a pedal platform so I like it quite neutral, ie not overly bright, mids backed off, bass not too prominent.

If you are getting feeback on the clean channel you are doing better than me or you have the master cranked.

Take it to Sebago, have it checked over, not only as a tech can do, but also someone who has an ear for how these are supposed to sound. Then talk to the guy about what you want from this amp. Bear in mind you should take your guitar with you as pups make a big difference. And I think you'll find its not always possible to set it up to be perfect for both H/B's and single coils.
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« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2013, 08:21:50 PM »
Quote from: plasticvonaband on February 09, 2013, 08:02:40 AM
Yup that's it!!! Very odd that there is such a disparity between the two sets. Have you tried adjusting the pot up and down with the Winged C's in there? Are they both reading 61mv? If they are, and lowering the bias voltage doesn't help i'd say something is off with the tubes, the bias circuit, or the HT circuits somewhere. very strange. i'd try adjusting the bias pot with the winged c's and if that doesn't work try another set and if that doesn't work take her to the tech


Gregg
a
I think it is the winged C's can't get the voltage lower than 61 mv when I go to the low limit of what the pot will do. If I set the bias at 40mv on the JJ's the bias on the winged C's gets so hot I have to shut down the amp so methinks it is the tubes. I want to say thanks to all of you for the great advice, wish I could return the favor I will post again after I go to Sebago and get this worked on. I also have new tubes coming. Mr. T Wilcox you are invited for a beer anytime you are in Redding. My ph # 541 480 1726
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T Wilcox
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« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2013, 12:27:40 AM »
Hey Bdog

If I ever am in the Redding area I may just take you up on that beer. I actually live in Colfax but commute to Sac M-F for work. I am sure Bill at Sebago will make that amp sound the way it is supposed to sound.  Could you post the pic of your amp guts that you sent Bill, I am curious as to what would be different in your amp compared to the current OTS layout.

Todd
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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2013, 03:38:26 AM »
It would work better forwarding these through email if our are willing to do that.
Bdog
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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2013, 03:42:43 AM »
Here is one of eleven I sent

* IMAG0071.jpg (1086.49 KB, 3264x1952 - viewed 637 times.)
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« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2013, 03:48:25 AM »
two more..Let lno if these sre good I'll drnf more

bfog

* IMAG0068.jpg (1357.49 KB, 3264x1952 - viewed 628 times.)

* IMAG0075.jpg (1243.74 KB, 3264x1952 - viewed 620 times.)
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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2013, 06:07:42 PM »
Hey Bdog

I sent you a PM with my email!
I've been looking at the second picture you posted and it appears it is something between the OTS and the OTS SM50.
There are a few suspect components for example the 2 large orange drop caps on the far right ( input side ) are 715p caps rather than 6PS I cannot see the value of each cap from the pic but they appear to be the same size and they shouldnt. There is what looks like a tantalum capacitor paralleled across a resistor towards the bottom middle of the board that has no place on any D-style amp so that one has me scratchin my head.
I'll have to go back to your previous posts but did you buy this amp new from Nik in 2008?

Todd
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max
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« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2013, 06:16:56 AM »
Quote from: T Wilcox on February 10, 2013, 06:07:42 PM
Hey Bdog

I sent you a PM with my email!
I've been looking at the second picture you posted and it appears it is something between the OTS and the OTS SM50.
There are a few suspect components for example the 2 large orange drop caps on the far right ( input side ) are 715p caps rather than 6PS I cannot see the value of each cap from the pic but they appear to be the same size and they shouldnt. There is what looks like a tantalum capacitor paralleled across a resistor towards the bottom middle of the board that has no place on any D-style amp so that one has me scratchin my head.
I'll have to go back to your previous posts but did you buy this amp new from Nik in 2008
Todd
?My computer won't let me sens a thing it keeps coming back to me. don't know what is going on. I give up for tonight. But thanks Todd. It ccomes back using he secoumd emiail withe 9 in it Huh???
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« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2013, 06:51:05 PM »
Quote from: wbfree on February 11, 2013, 06:16:56 AM
Quote from: T Wilcox on February 10, 2013, 06:07:42 PM
Hey Bdog

I sent you a PM with my email!
I've been looking at the second picture you posted and it appears it is something between the OTS and the OTS SM50.
There are a few suspect components for example the 2 large orange drop caps on the far right ( input side ) are 715p caps rather than 6PS I cannot see the value of each cap from the pic but they appear to be the same size and they shouldnt. There is what looks like a tantalum capacitor paralleled across a resistor towards the bottom middle of the board that has no place on any D-style amp so that one has me scratchin my head.
I'll have to go back to your previous posts but did you buy this amp new from Nik in 2008


Todd
[/quote

Yea I did get it nw in 2008 and then I smoked a transformer and sent it to a listed repair man. He modded it but I don't know everything he did. I will try to get my phone fixed so i can send pics. But what ever happens I will stay i touch and thanks for the effort and trying to figure this out. I have some really old 6l6 tubes frm my silvertone amp I would like to try but that will have to wait to do.
 
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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2013, 10:46:25 PM »
Sure thing,
Yeah on the other pics you sent me I noticed some other strange components that to be honest I dont know what the tech was trying to achieve by installing. If I had that amp on the bench I would go through it and revert it back to the original OTS 124 specs to start.
Why did the tech make all these mods? Other than the PT blowing were you unhappy with the sound prior to it blowing?

Todd
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max
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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2013, 02:21:36 AM »
Quote from: T Wilcox on February 11, 2013, 10:46:25 PM
Sure thing,
Yeah on the other pics you sent me I noticed some other strange components that to be honest I dont know what the tech was trying to achieve by installing. If I had that amp on the bench I would go through it and revert it back to the original OTS 124 specs to start.
Why did the tech make all these mods? Other than the PT blowing were you unhappy with the sound prior to it blowing?

Todd

I wasn't hearing what I wanted to hear I had no good tone in the overdrive. I know so little about how to achieve what I want, so I depend on others to do mods and I really should go to someone who understands these amps. I don't know what you do but if I had known that you work on Dumbles I would have called you. As it is I plan on seeing you when I get it back from Bill and I thank you for spending the time you have to try and figure it out. You are not that far away. I sent more pictures so let me know if you got them.
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« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2013, 04:34:39 AM »
I understand, for me this ampbuilding thing is a hobby. Bill has made a career out of it and I believe he's even spent some time with real Dumbles so I am sure you will be in good hands. BTW got the pics and no problem going over them. I was an electronics/fire alarm systems service tech for 10 years before I changed careers a little over 2 years ago so troubleshooting electronics is fun for me.
Anyways hope to here from you once you get the bugs worked out in that amp

Todd
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Plexi bass 1986 ( build #6 )
Ceriatone Ultra Champ ( build #5 )
TW Express clone ( build #4 )
Ceriatone HRM MK2 ( build #3 )
Ceriatone 2550  ( Build #2 )
Ceriatone OTS FM50 Modern Eagle Mod (Build #1)
EBMM Steve Morse original
50th anniv American Strat
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