Ceriatone Forum

I got my amp in 2009. It blew a transformer so I sent it to a authorized tech to fix while he had it he modded it but I don't know what he did, I trusted him. I got it back and I didn't like the sound so I just shelved it and used my other amps. I moved to Ca and after the move I fired up the overtone and it blew another tranny. I had it fixed here in Redding, Ca. and switched power tubes..I was using el34's now I am using 6l6's and am going to get some winged C 6l6gc's. I have no idea why I blew two tranny's the tech here who fixed it thinks there was a short. He broke my face plate and told me that someone else tightened the on light bezel too tight. I have had it with all these effing techs. Can you tell I am mad ha ha. Okay the tranny's never should have failed it is just my bad luck and that is not my point, my point is I have never heard my amp really so I don't know how it sounds. I am going to try a third time to find a tech who knows dumble amps and see if I can get it running  how I want which is to experience the rich tone this amp is famous for. I could care less whether I sound like Robben Ford or, Larry Carlton or anyone else you care to name. I don't give a shit I just want what this amp is capable of or as close as you can come. That first tech took out the negative feedback loop without even asking me. So here I sit with no real idea where to head because I don't know other than the feedback loop what the first tech did and i am trying to find a tech around here who knows these amps. I am electrically illiterate so I am at the mercy of these so called techs and my point in writing all this is to get some feedback from some of you and get a plan that actually will solve the problem and get me an amp that sounds good. I want to point out that this has nothing to do with Nik or ceriatone. He has treated me straight up. Anyway, sorry to be a bitch, I am just frustrated..so any ideas ha ha..and thanks in advance

Hey dude, I can relate.  Some techs are awesome, some are shite.  Hard to find a good one. 

So, I live in the the East Bay and I found a guy down in San Jose that builds his own D-clones.  Bill at Sebago Sound.  I had put some questions up on Amp Garage and he responded with a PM.  Did some great work on my Bluesmaster 100w and is just a good guy.  I'd suggest contacting him. 

http://www.sebagosound.com/

Thanks Rane. Coincidense Thanks Rane I will call him. There is a guy in Chico that might know dumbles too. Funny thing I am going to Los Gatos to see my ex mother in law..ha  ha, made myself  laugh thinking about mother in law jokes. She turned into a friend and in this life we can't be choosy where they come from, just grateful  that they appear.

 Not sure when I am going but soon for sure she is ninety and I am 71, an old grandpa. I want to do this fairly soon. Thanks for the reply.

Rock on wbfree! 71 and still rocking, good on you mate

Yep, d clones are more complex than the usual out there. Does pay off to send it to someone experienced and does what you want, not what they want...., like most hair dressers but that's another story

Ha ha thanks for making me laugh with the hairdresser analogy true dat. I talked to the amp guy in San Jose mentioned above and he knows dumble..just sent him some picks of amp guts. Take care @71 you figure out, or I did anyhow, what you should know when you are young, life is short then you die and go for it. Life is meant to be lived, there are no rules for what age you need to be to do or not do things. Just be kind and try not to hurt anyone.

I wonder if someone could tell me which amp I have, I bought it in 2008. I assume it is a non HRM  70's style but I am lame about electronics. My other question..sorry, is this..I ordered a matched pair of SED winged C 6l6gc's and they won't bias lower than 61 mv. The tubes I am replacing are JJ 6l6gc's and I set the bias way low to see if I was doing something wrong, at 18 mv to be specific, and the SED won't go lower than 61 mv. Are these SED's too hot, am I missing something because quite frankly I am ready to throw this amp in the trash. I have had nothing but bad luck. You guys talk about the great tone..I have no tone clean or OD. I can't turn the 100k OD pot underneath on the circuit board past 8:30 or it just gets too noisy, real noisy. I am ready to buy another amp from someone else..can you tell I am at the end of my rope. I wish I knew more about what is going on so I could fix it. My feeling is that I will get a Sebago Amp voiced 70's style and forget about this piece of shit, or once again is this all on me and just so you know I am quitting smoking right now and going crazy ha ha.

Sorry to be so pissed I apologize

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with your amp, unless someone has thoroughly messed up. If you don't know what might have been modded take it to Sebago Sound and have him tweak it to suit you. To be honest you are going round in circles, but you do need to be able to describe what yours is lacking and what you want from it for Sebago to be able to come up with the goods.

Thanks Hywelg you are probably right, circles. The bias thing is a mystery though, but I will call the tube guy and see what he has to say. I am in contact with Bill at Sebago already. I kind of know what I want the amp to do even if I suck as a guitar player, I have a good ear. Thanks for the input. We have both been around here for awhile so it really is good to see that you are still here as I said before. I will be getting another amp either the HRM or the 70's voiced DT50 from Bill..so I have a rough idea how I want things to sound.This will be the last amp I buy I hope ha ha.

I wouldn't, unless you play on one for a fair time. It might be that this style of amp isn't for you. The clean can be very revealing of poor technique and, depending how its setup the OD can be really poor for rhythm playing, its intended as a lead channel.

I understand all that, it is making me a better player and a lead channel is what I want, I am not trying to play rhythm on the overdrive. The clean channel is just not quite there yet. I will take it to Bill at Sebago and raise the heater wire and replace some stuff on the board,

Just out of curiosity what or how is you amp eq'd. You have the same as me I think an OTS non HRM
Thanks for the great feedback Hywelg I appreciate what you are telling me. I wont get hasty about buying another one if I can get the sound I am after which is always at its base a Dumble sound. Sorry to ramble on. I need a starting point that is why I ask you about your EQ. Damn smoking, quitting my little buddies aka cigarettes is really my problem right now ha ha.

I want to thank you again Hywelg. been listening to some sound samples of the OTS and I just need to have some patience because it sounded awesome. I would still be interested in your eq settings and where you have the 100k pot underneath set. I can almost get mine to feedback which is something I want even on the clean channel. It is hard to put in words but the clean feeding back sounds absolutely wonderful. I know I am crazy. Anyway thank you. Quitting smoking really is effecting my mental state right now and I don't always think clearly I want to smoke so badly, so I listened when you said I was going in circles, you are right. I have been chasing tone for a long time and I can tell I am almost there,... to the sounds I hear in my head. Music is the best-FZ

if you are in the Sacramento area ever let me know I would be happy to give your amp a thorough checkup.
Regarding your HRM thread I would suggest you be sure to get this OTS running correctly first before considering another D-style amp. The differences between HRM and non-hrm are more subtle than you may think!

Todd

Hi Todd,
I live in Redding right up the raod from SAC where are you located. I have been listening to all the great advice I am getting and have listened to some OTS clips..my amp has never sounded as good but I can now see where it could. I get your point. I was going to have Bill at Sebago amps work om it. I sent him some pictures and he said he could see a bunch of components that need to be replaced and the heater wires raised.
Bdog aka Wbfree

Not for nothin, but it sounds like the knob you are turning for the OD trim is actually the Bias pot. the Bias pot usually under the circuit board (the bulk of it) the shaft and knob usually pokes out the bottom. on most dumbles and clones, The OD trim will be a small trimpot basically sitting over V2 and its circuitry with the adjustment slot facing horizontal towards the front or rear of the chassis. There should also be another trimpot over V3 for the PI trim.

Agan, this could be the case and having the Bias too low can cause crossover distorion, and too high can make the amp muddy and undefined, and could burn the tubes up, shorting them out and causing your transformer woes as well.

Again this is just a theory, and i wouldn't be able to prove it without pics of what ya got.

Keep rockin, man! My dad is 72, still works a full time job and rocks as well!

Hope this helps!

Gregg

this is very true. i have gone back to using flatwounds and mostly fingerpicking since i got my BM. The darn thing picks up every lil noise :)

Gregg

Hi Gregg
Unless I am missing something which is always possible my bias pot is in between my 2 output tubes. I lowered it to 18mv with my JJ 6l6gc's in and then pulled them and put in the winged C's and got a reading of 61mv. Here is a picture of the pot..I hope this is correct. I could be wrong. My amp was made in 2008 so things could change.
Bdog
And you always help.

Yup that's it!!! Very odd that there is such a disparity between the two sets. Have you tried adjusting the pot up and down with the Winged C's in there? Are they both reading 61mv? If they are, and lowering the bias voltage doesn't help i'd say something is off with the tubes, the bias circuit, or the HT circuits somewhere. very strange. i'd try adjusting the bias pot with the winged c's and if that doesn't work try another set and if that doesn't work take her to the tech


Gregg

If you are reaching behind the amp and twisting a knob between the power valves you are indeed adjusting the bias. If however there is a knob on the rear fascia, that will either be the FET level control or the OD Trim. To my knowledge Nik has never put the bias adjust on the rear plate.

As regards my settings, not much point me passing them on as I have changed quite a few components and I run a 12AT7 in v2. I rarely use my clean channel on its own, I use it as a pedal platform so I like it quite neutral, ie not overly bright, mids backed off, bass not too prominent.

If you are getting feeback on the clean channel you are doing better than me or you have the master cranked.

Take it to Sebago, have it checked over, not only as a tech can do, but also someone who has an ear for how these are supposed to sound. Then talk to the guy about what you want from this amp. Bear in mind you should take your guitar with you as pups make a big difference. And I think you'll find its not always possible to set it up to be perfect for both H/B's and single coils.

a
I think it is the winged C's can't get the voltage lower than 61 mv when I go to the low limit of what the pot will do. If I set the bias at 40mv on the JJ's the bias on the winged C's gets so hot I have to shut down the amp so methinks it is the tubes. I want to say thanks to all of you for the great advice, wish I could return the favor I will post again after I go to Sebago and get this worked on. I also have new tubes coming. Mr. T Wilcox you are invited for a beer anytime you are in Redding. My ph # 541 480 1726

Hey Bdog

If I ever am in the Redding area I may just take you up on that beer. I actually live in Colfax but commute to Sac M-F for work. I am sure Bill at Sebago will make that amp sound the way it is supposed to sound.  Could you post the pic of your amp guts that you sent Bill, I am curious as to what would be different in your amp compared to the current OTS layout.

Todd

It would work better forwarding these through email if our are willing to do that.
Bdog

Here is one of eleven I sent

two more..Let lno if these sre good I'll drnf more

bfog

Hey Bdog

I sent you a PM with my email!
I've been looking at the second picture you posted and it appears it is something between the OTS and the OTS SM50.
There are a few suspect components for example the 2 large orange drop caps on the far right ( input side ) are 715p caps rather than 6PS I cannot see the value of each cap from the pic but they appear to be the same size and they shouldnt. There is what looks like a tantalum capacitor paralleled across a resistor towards the bottom middle of the board that has no place on any D-style amp so that one has me scratchin my head.
I'll have to go back to your previous posts but did you buy this amp new from Nik in 2008?

Todd

?My computer won't let me sens a thing it keeps coming back to me. don't know what is going on. I give up for tonight. But thanks Todd. It ccomes back using he secoumd emiail withe 9 in it ?????

Sure thing,
Yeah on the other pics you sent me I noticed some other strange components that to be honest I dont know what the tech was trying to achieve by installing. If I had that amp on the bench I would go through it and revert it back to the original OTS 124 specs to start.
Why did the tech make all these mods? Other than the PT blowing were you unhappy with the sound prior to it blowing?

Todd

I wasn't hearing what I wanted to hear I had no good tone in the overdrive. I know so little about how to achieve what I want, so I depend on others to do mods and I really should go to someone who understands these amps. I don't know what you do but if I had known that you work on Dumbles I would have called you. As it is I plan on seeing you when I get it back from Bill and I thank you for spending the time you have to try and figure it out. You are not that far away. I sent more pictures so let me know if you got them.

I understand, for me this ampbuilding thing is a hobby. Bill has made a career out of it and I believe he's even spent some time with real Dumbles so I am sure you will be in good hands. BTW got the pics and no problem going over them. I was an electronics/fire alarm systems service tech for 10 years before I changed careers a little over 2 years ago so troubleshooting electronics is fun for me.
Anyways hope to here from you once you get the bugs worked out in that amp

Todd

Sent amp to Bill at Sebago sound will report back when I get the amp back. I have so much noise now anything will be an improvement. Heater wires will be lifted for one thing. It will be a bit before I get it back.
Bdog aka wbfree

The OTS is being workd on in San Jose by Bill Dunham ( Segao Amps). It is being set up as a Robben Ford 102 and will have a baseman transformer The heater wires are lifted..Thanks Hywelg for the tip. I should get it next week. I run two winged c 6ld gc's in the power side and three telefunken 12ax7's in the preamp.
I am excited I have not heard a real decent overdrive sounds yet.
The icing on the cake is that I am buying a new guitar, an epiphone casino thin line hollow body. None od this is here yet but will be soon and it is red woot!!.

Very Nice! you're gonna love it!

Gregg

Thanks plastic..as an aside how did you get name Ha ha, not laughing at you but me it is sort of a tongue twister. Don't know if you were referring to amp but assume you were. The guitar in combination with this amp ought to be awesome. I have wanted a thin line for a while and though I haet to admit it..Gary Clark Jr. plays the shiite out of one at  stage volume and it sounds Terrific. Clean for Jazz.. I post here when I get it all back. Thanks for the suggestions and help. I wish I could help but my knowledge of electronics is limited
 

Oh ya, that casino will sound great thru the OTS for sure. Actually, the name is one of many band names we used in high school. My last name is Vona, so we kinda a did a play on the Plastic Ono Band. We also had VonanovA as a name at one time. Yeah, those were the days.

Gregg