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Author Topic: OTS clean channel not very loud  (Read 18673 times)
nickm57
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« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2009, 02:20:36 PM »
Guitar players are always too loud ask any sound guy....

Point the amp at your head, stand in a place were you are getting the full throw of your cab, don't stand over the top of your amp it's not what your audience or a microphone is hearing.
A mic will let you be heard out front. Unless you are playing a bar room jam then turn up a little more, but walk out front and see how loud you really are in the crowd.

I've used a 50watt OTS on many gigs. My experience has been that that the master vol does not need to go over 3-4 to balance with a good drummer (he sets the dynamic level of the band) maybe a max of 5 in a loud band. At that level I'm not enjoying the gig or my sound it's too loud, and if it too loud for me it's too loud for my audience.

Rehearsal rooms are a confined space and with bass and drums and keyboards in there it's sometimes hard to here yourself and how loud you really are.
I've use many higher powered amps, a music man hd 130, fender twins, 100 watt marshalls etc and the OTS is  loud enough on it's cleans.

If you find your cleans are not in the mix ....it's the mid range of your sound were it's at. It can give you presence in the band without volume.

Remember that a guitar is not a bass it does not need to reproduce it's frequencies  so in isolation your sound maybe a bit thin etc... but in a bands mix it will sit.



Nick
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 09:28:29 PM by nickm57 » Logged
JohnE
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2009, 05:57:27 PM »
I am going to vote with Nick. My OTS is very loud with G & M set at 3-4. It is always mic'd at gigs, so crowd volume is set at the board. You absolutely cannot judge how you sound standing directly in front of, or over, your amp. Especially if it is on the floor projecting parallel to the floor. You have to stand back at least 15 feet depending on the room. I rehearse using  a Fender super champ (15W) in 20' x 25' space with a drummer who beats the hell out of his kit and it will be too loud if I crank it above 5 or 6. It is hard for me to imagine the sound levels of an OTS at 7 in a small closed room.
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Alpedra
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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2009, 09:44:56 PM »
Quote
Hmmm... My Ceriatone JTM-45 Bluesbreaker set sligthly above 2 is as loud, if not louder, than my OTS set at V 7 and MV at 5.

Same experience here. My 36W feels much louder than the OTS on the clean channel. I also feel that the difference in volume, comparing the clean to the overdrive channel volume is a BIG one. There are a lot of people reporting this. I think it´s not a problem, but the character of Nik´s circuit instead.
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docmh
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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2009, 06:55:52 PM »
My amp is newer version. I bought it in Oct. 08 and got it in late November.
I'm wondering if those experiencing volume problems have the newer amps with the Zucker/ Ayan changes. Do you guys with loud amps have the older S&M version
or newer ones?
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hywelg
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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2009, 08:51:05 PM »
I have an original and did most of the Zucker mods and it didn't change the volume that I noticed. I also did some of pickmasters mods, still no change.

When you have master at 3 o'clock and the volume at 12 oclock, what do you have to have the OD level and ratio at to achieve the same audible volume ?
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ampkits
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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2009, 08:43:02 AM »
Hi,

  Max clean headroom is usually achieved with Vol set high, like 2-3 o clock, and master set low, 11 o clock or so.

  This'd depend on the guitar/setup used as well.

  If it's not loud or sounding weird, a check is needed. A preamp tube might have failed.

  A failed preamp tube doesnt mean no sound, the amp'd work still as sometimes, only 1 side of the triode (12AX7 has 2 triodes) has died, or not working correctly.

  The best way to verify is by looking at voltages. The plate and cathode voltages will be quite way off than usual.

  Sorry to say, but Tungsol reissue 12AX7s had a lot of issue with 1 side failing, for some reason.

   We did use some before, so if your amp has Tungsol 12AX7s, and sounding weird, this is to be checked.

  I am not sure if the new ones are fine, could have been a bad period / batch from them.

Thanks!

nik
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mcinku
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2009, 08:56:18 AM »
My amp tech feels the same about Tungsols.
For some reason these tubes are not very reliable, actually all tubes coming from that particular plant.
He actually prefers JJ, much more reliable tubes.
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JohnE
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2009, 05:08:41 PM »
Quote from: ampkits on January 07, 2009, 08:43:02 AM
Hi,

  Max clean headroom is usually achieved with Vol set high, like 2-3 o clock, and master set low, 11 o clock or so.

  This'd depend on the guitar/setup used as well.

  If it's not loud or sounding weird, a check is needed. A preamp tube might have failed.

  A failed preamp tube doesnt mean no sound, the amp'd work still as sometimes, only 1 side of the triode (12AX7 has 2 triodes) has died, or not working correctly.

  The best way to verify is by looking at voltages. The plate and cathode voltages will be quite way off than usual.

  Sorry to say, but Tungsol reissue 12AX7s had a lot of issue with 1 side failing, for some reason.

   We did use some before, so if your amp has Tungsol 12AX7s, and sounding weird, this is to be checked.

  I am not sure if the new ones are fine, could have been a bad period / batch from them.

Thanks!

nik

Although they sound pretty good, I have had about 3 newer Tung Sol 12AX7s crap out on me in the past year.  Having used JJs for about 4 years now, I am pretty much convinced that they are, on average , the best sounding and most reliable tubes out there, for the price.  Both pre-amp and power tubes. There are other good ones , but I am always satisfied with JJs. Bob at Eurotubes sells only JJs and does the best matching I have seen.

As to the low Clean volume phenomena on the OTS... My OTS was shipped late April 2008. I have no idea what version that is, maybe s&m because it can be pretty bright. Now if all the switches are down, the clean volume is anemic (very weak). When in  the Bright and Rock positions it is very loud and actually can be louder than the OD mode depending on how the OD and ratio are set. One of the tricks for this amp is figuring out how to manage volume between the clean and OD modes. As the sole guitarist in a band that plays blues & blues rock I have to change tones frequently, and this has been a challenge with the OTS, but I have it fairly well figured out now.
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hywelg
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« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2009, 03:57:21 PM »
I was disappointed with the tone of the amp when first built, though the volume was fine. It took quite a few hours for the character to 'emerge'. It was 'dead' to begin with, now it is bright and toneful.

For a little light crunch I'd recommend a Menatone Red Snapper and I also believe  the Xotic RC Boost to be very good though I haven't had one to try, I intend getting one asap. Klon Centaur very highly rated but original examples are expensive.
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BustedWah
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« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2009, 05:30:34 PM »
Burning in is NOT a myth! My father and I are into audiophile speaker equipment because he's a top notch speaker builder and I see first hand that everything needs to be broken in. It's not as apparent in guitar equipment but it's incredibly obvious in a very high end stereo setup. The wires, the wire jacks, the caps, all components, the speakers... EVERYTHING has the be broken in. If we change an interconnect wire, sometimes it'll sound bad until its broken in... if we use an input we didn't use before on a new DAC, we have to break that in. It took us a while to learn our lesson. Things would sound bad without explanation, even the vendor would say there's no break in period so that he could sell the product. I swear, I'm not the type to be biased or hear things lol...
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