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Author Topic: New OTS 50W  (Read 21552 times)
exocet
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2010, 10:18:20 AM »

Bluesmaster's have limited headroom because of the PI they use (Marshall/Fender PI),especially the 50w BM.

I don't see the BM breaking up @ around 2 o'clock. On my 100w amp the only thing that's bluesmaster spec is the phase inverter (The Clean tonestack is a Skyliner and the HRM  is just standard HRM) and it breaks up (with the Master) @ 12 o'clock and the (Pre amp Vol) @ 6 o'clock. And the amp is pretty friggin loud @ that point. With those settings the amp feedbacks into itself (of course I use a D-lator as the Final Master too).

 I recommend finding someone to mod your PI to Skyliner specs and keeping the BM tonestack if you don't dig the sound now and if your not getting enough headroom.

Some folks don't have headroom problems with the 50w OTS although...?

my BM50 starts to break up at 2 (as in 2/10), not 2 o'clock (and 3 o'clock with a quieter strat SC pickup). I run the master vol at 8 (3 o'clock)
both OD at noon (i.e. 5/10)
tbh, most of my amps do break up at 9 o'clock, I'm talking about breakup rather than overdrive. I run my Fuchs ODS30 at 10 o'clock, and that's very fendery clean there. I'm just wondering if anyone's tried different tubes in the BM50. I do like its sound (although it's a little dark, even with a Celestion Gold I'm setting the presence and treble very high, which is very unusual for me), so I'm not looking to mod it (other than to reverse the deep switch and lower the PAB gain)

Cheers
Tone

That sort of breakup would be consistent with the BM Phase Inverter configuration. The 'standard' OTS PI has a bit more headroom....too much for many. Combine that with the fact that the Master Volume is Pre Phase Inverter and I was initially confused as to why I couldn't get any dirt out of my clean channel (standard OTS).
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chrisrbr
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2010, 06:23:19 PM »

Well, here's what I've done so far.   I adjusted the PI trimmer--was only 2 volts delta, correct to 6.

Then I ordered some Tung Sols.  So in the mean time I tried some tubes I had.  First I took out the JJ 6L6's and put in JJ KT77's.  Much better, not as dark.  Then replaced the JJ on V1 with a Sovtek.  Much much better, richer sound.  (I have EH in V2, V3).   Then I had a couple of spare/new Mesa Boogie labeled 6L6's from when I used to haul around a Nomad---a stupid heavy amp, now sold.  Wow what a difference. 
Starting to like it, do think that the Tung Sol's will help the most since this is more of a preamp voiced amp.  The amp has no longer has that "blanket over the speaker" sound any more. 

Will post as progress is made.

thanks for the ideas! 

Will try speakers last--tube are cheaper to start.
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hywelg
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2010, 07:53:50 PM »

How many hours do you have on it now?
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Tone Control
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2010, 10:25:16 PM »

I too felt a bit cheated that I was supposed to buy Alnicos to make my BM50 work. Why make an amp with a response that needs a pricey speaker?
Now I have finally put a single Celestion Gold in front of the BM50.
Result = amazing, the BM50 with a 1x12 Celestion Gold now sounds much better than my Fuchs ODS with Fuchs 2x12
Just bite the bullet and get some Celestion Golds (even though I keep unluckily getting buzzy ones). You'll need them for other amps at some point anyway
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
chrisrbr
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« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2010, 01:23:20 AM »

In terms of number of hours on the amp---had it a week -- so less than 5 hrs.
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fatfretter
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« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2010, 04:55:42 AM »

I got my HRM 50 from Nik ready to plug and play a week ago and have about 5 hours of playing time on it. I bought a hermida 1x12 closed back with ported front  cab and put an EVM-12L in it. My general impression is this amp is a great product.  Incredible sustain and lead channel. Not sure about head room yet or how to use all three footswitch positions with regard to just the super clean power amp on and no gain Its chrystal clear. Im not using any effects at all yet and havent dimed it yet. Its sounds better than any other amp Ive had at low volume
I think a EV12L or a G12-65 is a good choice as Robben Ford uses g12-65s and Carlton and SRV used EVM 12Ls....thats good enough for me.THere are used ones available at resonable prices and warehouse speakers makes a g12-65 clone that is 89 dollars.
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hywelg
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« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2010, 09:08:06 AM »

In terms of number of hours on the amp---had it a week -- so less than 5 hrs.


Then I'll go back to what I said earlier. Don't spend too much time analysing it now, burn it in properly before making any decisions.
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rane008
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« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2010, 04:41:04 PM »

@ ToneControl, regarding early breakup, what are the other settings you are using?  Are you speaking of 2 on the Volume (first knob) or Master?  If you are running the preamp vol high, that *could* account for it.  But I'm thinking it may be a bad preamp tube.  It shouldn't break up that low.  I have a 100w w/ a 1/2 power switch, and I still just get saturated, compressed cleans when both the Vol and Master are at 5 on the 50w setting.
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rane008
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« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2010, 04:43:54 PM »

@ Chris, I agree with hywelg, just keep playing it.  When I got the amp, I turned it on, set it on standby, and went to bed.  Next day, I played the hell out of it, and I can speak for the amp rounding out and settling in.  It's amazing the difference.
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Tone Control
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« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2010, 09:25:38 PM »

@ ToneControl, regarding early breakup, what are the other settings you are using?  Are you speaking of 2 on the Volume (first knob) or Master?  If you are running the preamp vol high, that *could* account for it.  But I'm thinking it may be a bad preamp tube.  It shouldn't break up that low.  I have a 100w w/ a 1/2 power switch, and I still just get saturated, compressed cleans when both the Vol and Master are at 5 on the 50w setting.

I like my amps to be just on the edge of breaking up, and I use the pick to vary the tone
It's a 50w BM / HRM
With normal strat SCN pickups, well the neck pickup usually, I run it at (these are the numbers, not o'clocks):
vol 3
deep off, mid off
Rock
Treble 8-9
Mid 5
Bass 2-3
OD 5
OD level 5
master 8
Presence 8
halfpower not on
OD trim, about 2 o'clock
with this I can get clean , then add grit with the OD or PAB
any more than 3, it's saturating (and I like that, but I use a 5E3 or quad 6L6 5x3 for that
It just seems odd that some amps break up at 7 (jtm45 clone), but many at just 9 o'clock (5E3, dz30, Fuchs ODS30). My real DC30 works for me between 9 o'clock and 11 o'clock on the EF86 channel & the ecc83 one
Maybe I should fot a treble bleed cap on my guitars and take the volume down on them, but I do like the full tone from a guitar on max

Anyone tried diff valve types in a D-Clone?
This BM50 sounds in the same league as my DC30 btw.
DC30 does a few other tricks too though to be fair. It's the only loud amp  I've found can sound OK at low vol just using master vol

Cheers
Tone
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
Nairbr
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« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2010, 11:58:31 PM »

I play mostly Strats through mine and I set my volume around 7 and my master at 2-3 and my volume is around 5 for a Les Paul.

Your v1 tube must be faulty if you are getting too much breakup with your vol set on 3 with a Strat.

I have had mine for about 1 1/2 years and I still reckon it sounds the best after it has been switched on for an hour or so, before that it still sounds a bit muddy. But a burn in period is a must for these amps, I left mine on for 2 days and it made a huge difference.

As for tubes. Tung Sol's seem to one of the popular choices (haven't tried them personally but they're on the shopping list) but I have tried a old Mullard in V1 once (it was in an old Marshall Plexi a friend of mine found at the recycling depot), loved it, smooooooth everything. That would be my tube of choice if you could find one and it didn't cost an arm and a leg.

I do find this amp easier to dial in a good sound with humbucker guitars than single coil's but once you find that sweet spot it sounds good with anything.


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Ceriatone 50 watt HRM + C-Lator
Ceriatone Stray Cat 30
Marshall 4 x 12 cab WGS ET-65's
Fender Custom Shop Rory Gallagher Strat
Fender Custom Shop "Kosmic Music 40th Anniversary" Ash Strat
Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul R9 VOS
Gibson Les Paul Traditional Plus with WCR Darkbursts
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2010, 01:13:22 AM »

Fully agree with Nairbr regarding amp settings for both Strats and les paul guitars.

However, if the amp in question is a BLUESMASTER, early breakup will happen if the BASS POT is above 2½-3 (8:00-8:30 o'clock). The Bluesmaster amps are bass monsters, so you have to keep that pot way down.

There seem to be some confusion regarding the Bluesmaster, people tend to believe that the PI (Phase inverter) and/or poweramp is the reason for ealy break up in Bluesmasters. It all comes down to excessive bass in the Bluesmaster preamp. Period :-) If you want a balanced tone from the Bluesmaster preamp, you have to keep the Bass (and mid) control really, really low.

If you are in doubt about this, make a search for a picture of Matt Schofield or Larry Carlton's Bludo BLUESMASTER settings, and you will see that both players have the tone control settings close to:

- treble at '5' (12 o'clock)
- mid at 3 (9 o'clock) and
- BASS at 2½ (8:30 o'clock).

You might argue that a stellar player like Scott Lerner, who use mostly Bluesmaster amps (Glaswerks and Bludo's) has his tone controls at noon?? Yes, but Scott Lerner almost always plays lead guitar on his clips - with OD and PAB on. AND Scott use MAGA BOOST, which in effect means that in his clips the tone controls are not active at all.

Hope this helps
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 01:14:56 AM by bluesfendermanblues » Logged

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hywelg
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« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2010, 09:18:29 AM »

Matt Schofields settings on Larry Carltons amp, November 2009


* IMG_2099.JPG (96.43 KB, 1000x601 - viewed 753 times.)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 09:26:39 AM by hywelg » Logged
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2010, 10:12:01 AM »

And here is Larry Carlton's settings


* P8240186[1].jpg (150.89 KB, 800x600 - viewed 724 times.)
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Steven_nl
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« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2010, 11:05:42 AM »

Hopefully (snow conditions) I can pick up my amp tomorrow. I'll post my settings. (BM pre amp with OTS PI and power amp.
Greets and happy Hollidays
Steven
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