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Author Topic: HRM Bluesmaster setup advice  (Read 131417 times)
StratUltra
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« Reply #90 on: April 21, 2012, 06:27:18 AM »

How mug longer till you get your speakers?

I just got the EV in a moment ago and its very true that the speaker does not color your sound. At this stage, there isn't too much of a difference but oddly the fizzyness in the OD isn't so apparent. It has brightened the amp a tad but it hasn't been too much of a dramatic change. The tubes come in next week so I'll get them in and see how it goes.

I only ended up getting preamp tubes because I don't know how to bias the power tubes. Will probably change them when I get the amp serviced.

I gave the les Paul a good playing today trough the amp an it does seem to like it more than the strat.
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #91 on: April 21, 2012, 06:20:15 PM »

How mug longer till you get your speakers?

I just got the EV in a moment ago and its very true that the speaker does not color your sound. At this stage, there isn't too much of a difference but oddly the fizzyness in the OD isn't so apparent. It has brightened the amp a tad but it hasn't been too much of a dramatic change. The tubes come in next week so I'll get them in and see how it goes.

I only ended up getting preamp tubes because I don't know how to bias the power tubes. Will probably change them when I get the amp serviced.

I gave the les Paul a good playing today trough the amp an it does seem to like it more than the strat.

Yeah, it took a lil while for the fizziness to go away on mine, it will, have faith  Wink

Not sure when my speakers are gonna get here. I called Weber yesterday hoping that they hadn't started building them yet, so i could ask their tech if maybe the Neo 12 might be a better choice. I left a message, but they never called back. I prolly shoulda emailed, em, i guess. I'm hopin they'll be here by next weekend, since i took vacation that weekend Wink

Good to hear that the Les Paul sounds better and that the EV sounds as prescribed. Where do you have the OD trim set? I know when mine was newer, i had to keep th trim lower or it would be fizzy.

Gregg
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
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StratUltra
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« Reply #92 on: April 23, 2012, 09:11:14 AM »

Okay guys, a status update...

So here we are, with a 50w BM with the following changes since it been shipped;

- EVM12L speaker
- Tung sol in V1 & V2
- Sovtek in v3

Wile changing the tubes, I did notice that in V1, there was a JJ whilst in V2 & V3 there were TADs there.

Once all in.... All I can say is wow! The cleans have brightened up a huge amount but still maintaining a certain warmth. The OD is no longer fizzy and just sounds smooth. While if I winds up the gain, it still gets fizzy, but it takes much more before it does now, where as previously it just sounded fizzy even on low gain settings.

Since changing the speakers and tubes, I know I'll need more time to tweak to get it perfect, but now I feel that I'm well on the way now. Only thing is, there isn't much much sustain to the OD as the OTS as ive seen on youtube clips, but then again I'm playing through the strat and there wasnt much sustain before either. Perhaps further tweaking will get me there.

All in all, these changes have really brought the amp to what I expected if not more.....

Oh and another observation, the input knob on the clator seems to have more of an effect on tone now. Winding it back seems to brighten up the amp now which is great. Also, the PAB switch previously seemed to muddy things up, but now it sounds nice and crisp but now just fattening the tone up a little.

Now....to find the time to tweak it....
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 11:57:05 AM by StratUltra » Logged
rvf263
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« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2012, 02:42:27 AM »

Are you using the EVM12L in a thiele type cab?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 02:44:01 AM by rvf263 » Logged

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StratUltra
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« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2012, 05:42:16 AM »

Just through a ceriatone can that I made up
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StratUltra
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« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2012, 10:38:02 AM »

That's an interesting observation Smiley

Having played the speaker a little more, I actually found it to be much nicer than the ET65. Much more note definition and it seems to tighten up the bass on the BM which I found muddy with the ET65. To me it seems to bring out the amps true sound without adding any additional coloring. Initally it didnt seem to change the tone too much, but after tweaking the amp some, i found that the tone controls seem to have a greater effect, opening the amps tonal range a little more. Shortly afterward, in addition to the tube change, it completely changed the amp, and to me seemed like a blanket had been lifted off of it. I too have heard that some find it too harsh, where as I actually find that it still maintains the warmth (naturally a dark amp) on the cleans, but brightening it up a little. Different strokes for different folks I guess!

« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 10:41:03 AM by StratUltra » Logged
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« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2012, 11:58:10 AM »

If your leaddress is not OK the EVM12L can be revealing; very harsh tones.
If your lead dress is ok it should sound good. Lots of highs and in your face sound is how some people describe it. Grin
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StratUltra
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« Reply #97 on: April 29, 2012, 12:33:21 PM »

There was some mention in another thread to adjust the internal HRM trimmers to get the most out of the OD, so i spent some time doing just that during this afternoon. Glad to report that it has certainly made a difference on the OD on the BM. No longer does it sound harsh and lifeless. Now it blooms the notes much more and has almost that OTS OD character but as some people have describe it, it has a marshall flavor to it, but can certainly be used or the blues. It's very good in it's own right where as previously it wasn't very boos at all. I'm thinking that, in addition to an EQ in the loop might even get me closer to OTS territory.
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StratUltra
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« Reply #98 on: May 01, 2012, 01:27:55 PM »

Okay, another update... Trying to keep my tone chasing progress in this single thread as I started wondering into other people's threads

In addition to the change of tubes, speakers as previously mentioned, know now done the following;

- adjusted the internal HRM trim pots
- placed a mxr 6 band EQ in the FX loop
- tested the LNFB switch which I actually forgot about!

Of all of the above, I must say that the HRM tonestack adjustment was the most affective. The change was rather big as I tested it with the PAB and OD channel on from time to time to listen for the changes. The EQ in the loop and in the front obviously changed the amps tone, but I found myself preferring the OD channel without it. Just sounded more "fat" as opposed to the EQ, it sounded either thin or too muddy because of the boost in mids. Just didn't sound natural to me, and it also messed around with them amazing cleans on the BM.

Played with the LNFB switch a little today, but the change was very subtle. Not sure if i need to retweak everything again to get the most out of it, but I might have more time this weekend to do so. As mentioned in another thread, I've found that tweaking this amp requires very small adjustments and some controls are very subtle. A good example is the presence and pull bright switch on the volume control. Winding the presence from nil to max doesn't immediately sound different on the clean, but you notice a certain brightness on the OD which can make it sound harsh.....

Not quite sure where to go from here in search of those dumble OD tones...

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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #99 on: May 01, 2012, 02:12:05 PM »

Okay, another update... Trying to keep my tone chasing progress in this single thread as I started wondering into other people's threads

In addition to the change of tubes, speakers as previously mentioned, know now done the following;

- adjusted the internal HRM trim pots
- placed a mxr 6 band EQ in the FX loop
- tested the LNFB switch which I actually forgot about!

Of all of the above, I must say that the HRM tonestack adjustment was the most affective. The change was rather big as I tested it with the PAB and OD channel on from time to time to listen for the changes. The EQ in the loop and in the front obviously changed the amps tone, but I found myself preferring the OD channel without it. Just sounded more "fat" as opposed to the EQ, it sounded either thin or too muddy because of the boost in mids. Just didn't sound natural to me, and it also messed around with them amazing cleans on the BM.

Played with the LNFB switch a little today, but the change was very subtle. Not sure if i need to retweak everything again to get the most out of it, but I might have more time this weekend to do so. As mentioned in another thread, I've found that tweaking this amp requires very small adjustments and some controls are very subtle. A good example is the presence and pull bright switch on the volume control. Winding the presence from nil to max doesn't immediately sound different on the clean, but you notice a certain brightness on the OD which can make it sound harsh.....

Not quite sure where to go from here in search of those dumble OD tones...



Sounds like you are on the right track!!
Here's a couple of things to consider. Most of the professionally recorded tracks we hear have gone thru post processing by the time we hear them. Compressors, EQ, etc. Even some of the member clips will be recorded with a compressor in front of the amp and quite a few have very short delay to fatten the sound up a bit. i have read that Ford, Carlton, and others use some type of OD pedal in front of the amp, so the sound we hear isn't fully Dumble.

As far as the BM, it has less mids than the rest of the OTS series. The HRM helps to make up for this, and you can boost the miss quite a bit with it, especially if you run it with the PAB as it was designed. The OD section is very different, though, different values and what not, no snubbers on V2, etc. Also the PI is different from the rest which makes it sounds differently from the rest as well.

One suggestion i can make is to try a 22M resistor on the PAB, it was how the BM was originally designed, and it sounds so much better with it. More signal gets into the OD section, and into the HRM stack and into the PI, really changes the OD as a whole. Since going back to the 22M resistor on the PAB, and using the HRM stack or bypassing it with a 33k resistor instead of lifting it completely from ground i hardly turn the drive up past 4 these days, and i just sings and sings, but it still sounds very bluesy, not overly crunchy or "metally" if that makes sense. It certainly makes the amp fatter and helps to tighten things up all at the same time.

Gregg
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
StratUltra
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« Reply #100 on: May 01, 2012, 11:13:36 PM »

Thanks Gregg,

I had my BM modded to have a 100k pot to adjust the PAB volume, so in theory if I crank it up at about 80%, that should get enough signal and produce the same sort of result? The boost in volume I'd imagine would be quite big.

I'll be tweaking the HRM trimmers this weekend a little more and I've made note to bump the mids and turn the treble down as silly me, I did all my sound checks only on the jazz setting. Sounds a little too trebly on rock.

The tonestack bypass mod I have on the amp too, but from the sounds of it, you're partially lifting the tonestack, where as I'm completely bypassing it. I might try put in either a 250k pot or 100k pot where the existing switch is, to try get it to partially lift and get it to middle grounds.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 11:15:40 PM by StratUltra » Logged
screamtone
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« Reply #101 on: May 02, 2012, 01:38:17 AM »



I'll be tweaking the HRM trimmers this weekend a little more and I've made note to bump the mids and turn the treble down as silly me, I did all my sound checks only on the jazz setting. Sounds a little too trebly on rock.

 

Can you share your trimmer settings and how you decided on them? I'm really struggling with the OD channel on my Bluesmaster. Thanks!
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #102 on: May 02, 2012, 02:37:50 AM »

Thanks Gregg,

I had my BM modded to have a 100k pot to adjust the PAB volume, so in theory if I crank it up at about 80%, that should get enough signal and produce the same sort of result? The boost in volume I'd imagine would be quite big.

I'll be tweaking the HRM trimmers this weekend a little more and I've made note to bump the mids and turn the treble down as silly me, I did all my sound checks only on the jazz setting. Sounds a little too trebly on rock.

The tonestack bypass mod I have on the amp too, but from the sounds of it, you're partially lifting the tonestack, where as I'm completely bypassing it. I might try put in either a 250k pot or 100k pot where the existing switch is, to try get it to partially lift and get it to middle grounds.

Well, you will get more gain than the stock 68k, but not as much as lifting the tonestack completely. It's a good start, though.

If i was to put a pot on the HRM bypass, i would put a 50k pot with a 100r resistor on one leg, that way you will have the stock 100r value and be able to adjust within a 50k range. as 33k seems to work pretty well
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
plasticvonaband
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« Reply #103 on: May 02, 2012, 02:39:59 AM »



I'll be tweaking the HRM trimmers this weekend a little more and I've made note to bump the mids and turn the treble down as silly me, I did all my sound checks only on the jazz setting. Sounds a little too trebly on rock.

 

Can you share your trimmer settings and how you decided on them? I'm really struggling with the OD channel on my Bluesmaster. Thanks!

The trimmer settings have to be set according to you ears and what you like. there is no standard setting per se


gregg
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
screamtone
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« Reply #104 on: May 02, 2012, 12:22:50 PM »



I'll be tweaking the HRM trimmers this weekend a little more and I've made note to bump the mids and turn the treble down as silly me, I did all my sound checks only on the jazz setting. Sounds a little too trebly on rock.

 

Can you share your trimmer settings and how you decided on them? I'm really struggling with the OD channel on my Bluesmaster. Thanks!

The trimmer settings have to be set according to you ears and what you like. there is no standard setting per se


gregg

I can dig that, just hoping for some advice with a starting point. I bought by Bluesmaster used, so I'm not really sure that the trimmers were set anywhere in the ballpark of a usable tone in the first place. It doesn't sound very good right now. It's pretty harsh and constricted, with out the normal controlled feedback I'd expect from a D-style amp.
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