Ceriatone Forum

Hi Guys,

First off, I hate to create another one of those "NEED HELP" type emails, but I've trolled through many of the threads on this forum but cant quite get the answer I need. I've noticed a lot of supporting members on this forum, and I can say that not all forums are the same.

I'm just about to place my order with Nik on a 50w Bluesmaster with LNFB mod, Tonestack bypass with a port for volume adjustment once bypassed, PAB volume adjustment, 3 way mid boost with a Clator. Along with it, I'll be getting a WGS ET-65 for a 1x12 cab as well. I must say, Nik's customer service is second to none, and is super responsive. He's been great to deal with throughout the ordeal, and would recommend anyone to making a purchase with Ceriatone.

The tone i'm looking for is specifically the John Mayer "Where is the light" concert cleans with the overdrive from the song Belief, which is a thick and fat sounding. I think th BM will get me the cleans that I need, although I'm hoping the mods, particularly with the Tonestack mod will get me that traditional OTS dumble OD. Have you guys have any thoughts if this will get me what I'm after? Its interesting, because JM gets most of his tone from his amps, so I'm thinking that I need to get my amp setup right.

My other question is, is the WGS ET-65 suitable for this? I know the BM is bass heavy, and I'm afraid that in combination with this speaker, the bass might be a little overwhelming. Also thinking of the possibilities of getting a EVM12L instead if this will help me achieve the tone I'm after.

Another question, in terms of tubes to use, will the JJ's that come with the amp be alright to use? From my previous experience with JJ's, they are a little dark, but though I might use them as a baseline to start with. Was thinking the JJ's would be fine in the power section, but I've read that the pre-amp on the HRM BM is very picky. Not sure how the JJ's will be with the OD.....

A few clips to as what tone i'm after

Belief... after the OD from this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZHnVvy_Hxg

Slow Dancing in a burning room ....After the cleans on this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32GZ3suxRn4

Any feedback or advice would be appreciated!

First, let me say that those clips are perfect for conveying what you want. I'll try to answer some of your answers, but might not be able to get all of them. Also, this is coming from someone who owns a HRM 50, not Bluesmaster, but I don't really think in the grand scheme of things, it's a big difference.

The speaker issue. I have a 2X12 cab with a WGS ET-65 & Veteran 30. I chose that combo because I too was a little concerned about the ET-65 being too dark. While the two paired together is superb, I really don't think the ET-65 is too dark at all. It does have great bass response, but the top end is really nice. If I had to just use one of those speakers the ET-65 would be it. Now you bring up a EVM12L which is a sort of a whole new ball game. Up until recently, I have never played though one of these speakers, but got a chance the other day. While I still love the combo I have that speaker was really something to play. The efficency is really suited for a 1X12 setup and it has a clearness with just the right compression that really is suited for these amps. Your talking a different price range with the EV so that's something to consider.

As far as getting JM tone, I really think the amp your going for will get you what you're after. While I don't really ever try to sound like JM and don't listen to his music on a regular basis, everytime I hear clips like the ones above I hear my amp all over. In some ways, while Larry Carlton's tone can be considered classic D-style, JM's is classic D-style of a different sort. I think the HRM aspect is probably a part of it, along with the cleans being more blackface fender.

As far as tubes, if you know how to bias the amp I would get it with no tubes and choose something other than JJ's. But if you don't than letting Nik get it all setup with the tubes and then send it to you would probably be best.

I feel for your nervousness. It's about exactly a year ago I was going over and over which of Niks kits/amps to get. Don't sweat it too much it will be great.

Appreciate the feedback SoundPerf :)

It was one of your post and 212Mavrick(sp?) & plasticvonaband, that swayed me in getting the LNFB mod and Tonestack bypass for the OD. I Was thinking that should get me the overdrive in the "Belief" clip above with it? Hope I'm right about this one... 

It does help settle some of the nervousness I have. I'm certain that Nik's amps are going to be great, but it just makes it difficult to decide on which OTS/HRM is best suited for my sonic tastes. There isn't many clips on the Bluesmaster to listen to unfortunately. There was maybe 3 clips on youtube with the Bluesmaster OD being played, and they all sounded different. Again, it makes it hard to decide without being able to hear the amp and tweak it to taste, and decide if it is the right one.

I was thinking that With the ET-65, it might work fine with the Bluesmaster because of the brighter Fender Blackface cleans, but I do have the option of also getting a used EVM12L locally here in Australia for about $250AU. Would rather get the speaker choice right the first time rather than experimenting, and end up spending more money in the end.

In terms of the tubes, I dont know how to bias the tubes, but I can have this done by my amp tech. Tube selection is the more challenging part in trying to achieve the tones. Particularly since there are so many to choose from, with all their own characteristics.

I guess being located so far from Malaysia, I want to try get things done right the first time. Its tricky, because I know the BM has the right cleans for what I want, but I'm not entirely sure if the OD channel is the right one. To me, the purchase of a dumble clone is all about the dumble overdrive.....

So with all the mods that Nik is going to do does he think the BM will get you what you want?

I guess to simplify my opinion I should just state why I went with the HRM50 and not a regular OTS or BM. The main reason is I wanted to get as much OD gain as possible without going overboard. The fact that the HRM had a tonestack for the OD vs. the OTS seemed like what I would need because much of my playing is with OD.(although since getting the amp, it has opened up a whole new spectrum of clean playing) At the time with what little there was about the BM I did keep reading people elluding to not being able to get exactly the best OD with them. That sort of scared me and I didn't want bad OD. But like I said I was going on a few opinions that could have been accurate or not. Since then things I have read makes me think my fear was mostly unfounded.

All this was predicated on the fact that I have an electronics background and built the amp and knew I could change anything I didn't like. So I figured starting with a HRM would be a right fit. I think with all the mods you should have a huge pallete to choose from. I guess the thing to find out is Niks opinion on how much different the OD is on the BM from the regular HRM. I understand wanting to get it right the first time.

Also, it took some time to draw all the tone out of the amp. When I first fired it up, it sounded good and I could tell I had something special, but it took a good month or two to really start to squeeze out all the juice. In fact I'm still getting new flavors. I had modded a crappy Ibanez TS7 to be more TS9 like and paired that with a Xotic BB Preamp both as more boosts than OD and cascaded them into the HRM and was getting some awesome tones. Both on the clean and OD channel. A lot of tweaking these amps is using the "less is more" principal. Over doing any of the controls can get you in less than stellar territory fast.

Back to the speaker, if you can get an real EVM12L it's probably a good place to start especially since you just want a 1X12. The WGS's are awesome speakers, just the ET-65 is a different beast.

I think the best power tubes are ones that will get the closest to a RCA black plate sound. I really think the TAD WGC STR's are great. I'm still using the ones I started with. When it's time to replace these tubes I will mostly likely get the same thing. Unless I happen upon some great NOS at a great price. I don't see that happening though. Preamp tubes are probably more tricky. Have you been to visit http://www.ampgarage.com (http://www.ampgarage.com) yet. There's lots of info on tubes over there in the Dumble section. The one thing that got me some better tone than what I started out with was putting an RCA grey short plate in V1. This really was an eye opener about NOS. I'm still not someone who's going to go crazy with NOS tubes, especially since it seems like most the good supply have dried up unless you're willing to spend a truckload of money. I hope I can find a couple more NOS 12AX7's without emptying the bank account. It seems everytime someone has some at a good prices I just miss them and they are sold.  :(

I hope my long and rambling post is coherent enough to help.  :)

Well, I can tell you that the BM clean sound is a Blackfaceish clean, but not like what we are all used to. It is so much more alive and has a bigger soundstage than any Blackface i have ever played through. To me it is a healthy mix of Blackface and Tweed on the cleans. It really has alot of low end to it, and that makes it sound alot fuller than the standard Blackface. Some folks have gone so far as to change the slope resistor and bass pot value to lower the overall bass content, i just tend to keep the bass turned down lower.

I have mine driving two Weber 1265 Alnicos (Alnico magnet version of the G1265) and it sounds great to me. I had a pair of what were essentially well aged Eminence Delta 12As (lighter version of the 12A Pro which is Eminence's take on the EV12) for a while in there and sound really nice as well, very tight on the Bass and you could really turn the Bass control up and take advantage of it. so sweet.

As far as output tubes, i agree with Chris. I really dig the TAD WGCSTR shorties.They sound outstanding biased at the OTS's specified range, and stay pretty clean most of the way up, but give up the goods nicely when pushed hard via the clean channel and a lil clean boost or PAB (or both).

FOr preamp tubes, i have found that i like the ribbed Telefunkens so far the best, but they are pricey. For warmer sounds i like long plate GEs from the late 50's early 50's, but they are becoming extinct and pricey as well. thetubestore.com has their own "preferred series" of 7025s which i really like in V1 as well. I'm not sure who makes em, but they aren't sovteks, i'm thinkin there select chinese tubes like the TADs. The stock JJ does a nice job in V2 as well, actually. In V3 I like a nice strong well balanced russian tube, and i also adjusted the voltage swing between V3a and V3b to my liking. It was dead on the factory setting, but i found mine sings better at about 8 volts swing as opposed to 6 volts.

As far as the OD sound, i have found that there is such a wide range of tones available, that it is no surprise that no two clips sound alike. It isn't quite as compressed as the standard OTS or even the HRM which makes it sound (to my ears) a little more dynamic and doesn't sound like all the D-Style amps out there. It really has its own voice, and most importantly, you will probably find your voice, but it may take alot of twiddling to get it, but once you do, it's a beautiful thing. I will tell you that boosted cleans pushing everything to overdrive sound amazing on the BM, puncy and full, not compressed, it just sings. it's very addictive, when you finally get the amp and get it broken in, you will see what i mean,

Hope this helps!

Gregg

Thanks for spending the time to reply guys. It really has given me more of any idea what to expect. To explain tone over the Internet is certainly not easy, especially it being so subjective.

With the bluesmaster, I've heard that the cleans are definitely fender inspired, while the overdrive section is more marshall. After reading that description, I though "hang on, I want a dumble OD not Marshall!"

From the sounds of it, the bluesmaster will have plenty of tweak-ability on tone (with the mods included) which should be able to give me a wide sonic specturm in tone and hopefully get "that tone" I'm after. Although if I'm honest, I am after that thick & blooming typical dumble sounding overdrive... I was thinking if I needed more gain, I can always use my Zendrive, OCD or MI Audio Tubezone.

I've sent Nik another email to confirm a few things as suggested by soundperf above. I guess at this stage it's just a toss up between the hrm and hrm bluesmaster. I feel guilty bugging Nik all the time!

Out of curiosity Greg, why did you change your choicemin speakers?

Again, thanks guys... Any further feedback or advice would be appreciated!

I hope you're not thinking that just because the term "more Marshall like" is used that it is not going to sound like a Dumble. My HRM is much more able to get a Dumble sound than Marshall. It's just that it is able to be pushed into that Marshall territory. I guess what I'm wondering is if you're suggesting that you are going to go with a straight OTS instead. Because IMO, if you're after that straight up Carlton/modern jazz tone an OTS is what you probably want to stick with, but for a bluesy JM type tone then a HRM type circuit is more like it. To me it would be more about a choice between an HRM or BM HRM. And more so about will a BM get a more "exact" OD tone than a HRM. Keeping in mind that based upon all the mods you're getting you going to have a heck of a versatile amp.

I hope this isn't serving to confuse you more. It probably would me... :-\  Mainly, if versatillity is anywhere on your radar in an amp choice, then a HRM type I would say is a must. Also, when I say versatillity, it doesn't mean that the amp lacks unique character.

Agreed. As Chris said. With the BM the more Marshall like tones can be there, but, really it's not like a plexi or JCM800 sound, at least to my ears. It's more of an early Marshall sound, or Tweed Bassman sound. It all depends on how you set your EQ, and what speakers you use, though.

That being said, if you turn the OD trim up and drive the amp hard, you can get more modern marshall sounds, hell even some early mesa sounds if you want, but it's not what the amp is best at.

To answer you question about my speaker changes; when i originally got the amp i had it hooked up to my 20 year old 4X12 with the 20 year old eminence Delta 12a's in it. It sounded ok, but i had originally planned to used the 1265 alnicos anyway, so when i got the combo cab and put em they sounded pretty good, but had a lil more bass than i was expecting and wasn't as tight as i liked, so i put the old Deltas in and was happy with the punchy bass. i actually considered selling the webers, but something told me to keep em. I hooked my mp3 player up to the amp and let it burn in while i was home and while i was sleeping to help loosen it up. The deltas sounded pretty good, but kinda sterile. I'm not sure if it was age or just the curve of the speaker.

Meanwhile, i had the webers in another combo, hooked up to a hifi playing music thru it about 8 hours a day for 3 days, then i put the webers back in the amp, and it was magic. They weren't flubby and they had nice smooth highs and mids. I like em for my sound, but that's not to say everyone will. A little bit of experimentation goes along way :)

Gregg

Great thread and great posts here!   The only thing I would add is not to get too terribly OCD-ish about nailing those tones your are seeking right away...get 100 hours on the amp first to break it in.  Not only do things like caps break in and form, as do new speakers and tubes, but the output transformer needs to season some as well.   So the tones will drift for a while until things settle in.

In 12 inch, some of my fave speakers are no longer made.  They are JBL G125A-8 and JBL MI-12.  G125 has 3" VC, rated 200w rms, heavy, MI-12 has 2"VC, rated for 150 watts and they don't weigh all that much either.    You can look them up in JBL's "obsolete" speaker brochures online.  They are wonderful for the tones you want.   Might be tough to find.  There is a custom speaker builder on ebay that does up some really nice hemp cone 12's too, and they are affordable.  Hemp speakers do that smooth OD and can do it at slightly higher gain settings than traditional speaker cone materials.  Harmonics ooze out nicely.  You might need to use increased treble/presence settings with hemp.  I also have a thang for using 15's...have some faves there, but not going to muddy up the water any more right now.

The best part is not in attaining JM's tones, IMHO, no, not at all...best is to get that personal "StratUltra" tone palette.  You certainly have a lot to play with!  Do some mad science experiments on your own, better than to just take everyone's word.  The results will satisfy your curiosity and you will know more! 

I agree 100% with this

Again, thank you all for the time taken to reply.

Completely agree with finding a tone of my own, it's just I'd like to start with a good tone as a foundation.

After much thought, I'll go with a BM and I initially thought. Granted, with the mods, I should have plenty of tweaking time to find what sounds best.

I can say, this amp has been the most difficult to decide on....that's only because Nik makes such an awesome d-clone range to select, with all the differing opinions on tubes & speakers etc.

Pulling some final finances together and I'll be making a purchase real soon.

Stay tuned guy, I'll keep you all posted with my thoughts on the amp.

Will surely be returning to the forum, because everyone's been so helpful!

You're going to love it.

Of all the music equipment I have purchased through the years there's been just a few that were something special. They are a few guitars and my Ceriatone HRM 50.

I agree.  You are gonna love it.

I also agree with Chris. My BM is probably the best tube amp i have owned. Even better than my old Blackface Princeton, and my Sovtek when it was new and functioning properly. In a way it is a combination of both of those amps, with built in fabulous OD to boot.

Today the FedEx guy brought me the Roland Jazz Chorus 90 i got off of Ebay. I'm sure it will be awesome. Now i will have the best tube amp i have ever owned and the solid state amp i have ever owned. what else could one ask for?

Gregg

Yup!! If there's one solid state amp to have, this is it.(and the JC120) That's really cool you got one. It will be a cool thing to play with. Have fun!! 8)

Yeah i'm lookin forward to it! After years od playing through JC-120s and JC-90s i picked the JC-90. I like the 2x10 config better, it's warmer and smoother than the 2x12 aluminium dome speakers; and it's a hell of alot more portable!

Gregg

Hi guys, I've finally got my cash-flow together and just made payment to Nik on my BM with mods plus wgs speaker with 1x12 cab.

Cannot wait!

Will post a review on how it tracks along

Man, you just started on a big-ass journey...hold onto yer butt!   There will be many new things happening to your playing.  Don't be afraid to test old and new ideas, then discard  "nonworkingforyou" and add "onesthatdo" as you explore.  One of the bennies from getting to know my 50w HRM was learning to set up the controls on a couple of other, very nice, amps to get some of that D-tone singing thang going on, for instance. 

Serious congratulations to you!

Yer gonna love it! I find i love mine more and more everyday. I finally got my Dano going again (needed a new bridge pup) and i have decided that one of the most magical sounds in the world is a Dano DC 59 with flatwounds through a BM. the clean took my breath away and the OD was mindblowing. I've never been so taken back by an amp before, and it just seems to get better with age!!

Keep us posted on your progress!

Gregg

I'm excited!

To be honest, I was already keen to get an amp of this calibre but what that's really adding to it, is the mods (tone stack lift etc with adjustment pots etc) that Nik will add to my BM which will hopefully open an array of OD sounds for me.

I must say, it's almost like getting a "custom shop" amp but without the associated price tag.

Can't express how outstanding Nik's customer service has been.

Just wanted to give the OP a shout out that John Mayer did not play a Bluesmaster Voiced Dumble amp nor did his two rocks use anything close to what the Bluesmaster tonestack consists of on "Where the Light is"

 He played the following amps:

  Dumble Overdrive Special (100w w/ EL34's) and a Skyliner Tonestack (serial # in the late 200's) used with a Dumbleator in the Loop

 Two Rock Sterling Sig. (100w w/ 6L6's, "Classic tonestack") A clone of Henry Kaisers serial #4 Dumble Steel String Singer with inductor hi & Low Step Filters and Post PI cathode Follower Driver Tube. Used with a Dumbleator in the loop.

 Two Rock John Mayer Sig. (100w 6L6's, "Classic Tonestack") A clone of his own Silver panel serial #2 Dumble Steel String Singer, with a Post PI Cathode Follower Driver Tube, and No Hi/Low Step Filters

 All these amps were ON at the same time via the CAE switcher.

 The Overdrive came from either a Klon, Tubescreamer TS10, or Keely Katana.

 If you want to replicate the "Where the light is" tone the following from Ceriatone will be a perfect fit:

 100w HRM Mk II (w/ Skyliner tonestack) with EL34's

Now that is a post of posts!  Yaaaayyuuuhh!!  Very ampgarage-ishly accurate. ;)

Indeed

Now the $100 question. Did the OP get this information in time to change what he already ordered, or did we just cause him a crap load more anxiety?  :-\

All in all, what it seems to me is that you can get there a mulititue of ways and unless you got super $$$ like JM it will be a good approximation in the end no matter what you get.

So, it looks like a nice OD pedal is part of the process too. That's what I've been doing.

Stratultra, Congrats on the new amp.  ;)

Ah bugger! This has indeed causes me more anxiety!

I suppose I could try change my order with Nik, however I've decided that the BM will do me more than fine with my search for tone.

Like very one else has stated, I need to search for my own tone and I think the BM will provide me that sonic palet to get there. If I keep changing my mind, I'll forever be changing equipment. Although I was looking at the JM tone, I like still am gravitating towards the BM because of it's cleans and wide selection of OD range with the mods. As they say, you can add the dirt, but you cant take it away!

In all honesty though, thank you to all for your input in getting me to decide.

Seems like a sane approach. I think you'll love your choice. Plus like you, I want to find my own sound. Relax, it will be great!  ;)

Ok guys, just posting up date on this

Received the cab and amp yesterday and I must say, the customer service and communication I've had from Nik, Lin and Sang has been amazing throughout this ordeal.

Amp looks great and all mods were done as per my specs. The amp itself isn't too difficult to dial in the cleans, but the OD is tricky at the moment. Hard to juggle volume and OD levels at present.

Right now, the OD sounds quite underwhelming, but I'm burning it in for the next day or so and hopefully the OD will be a little more crisp and dumble like. The cleans are quite darker than expected, because reading reviews and watching clips gave me the impression it would be on the brighter side, but this is easily remedied with the bright switches on either the amp or clator.

Ive only managed to play the amp through my strat ultra and yet to tried it with the gibson lp 59 yet, but I think it needs time for the amp to burn in, and also time breaking in the speakers.....

Just my initial impressions on the amp thus far.... I can tell you there is going to be a lot of time spent of tweaking her

Yes, it's best to save any conclusive opinions for a little while. These amps really do change as the break-in. I don't know if you mentioned it before, but what speakers are you using? I see you said WGS, just didn't read the exact model.

Oh, and try that Les Paul sooner than later. Don't get me wrong I love single coils through my amp, but humbuckers will make it sing a bit faster.

I ended up going with the WGS ET65, but I'm thinking maybe the EVM12L would be better choice. The bass on the amp is certainly on the heavy side.

I'm sure as time goes by, I'm sure the OD will be less fizzy. The cleans are good now,but I think they'll get even better once things settle down a little.

Will give the les Paul a go a little today!

Ok, after some burn in time (just leaving the amp on or about 24 hours), the cleans are definitely nicer now, but the overdrive from the amp and my overdrive pedals sounds less than good. Very fizzy and artificial sounding overdrive, which leads me to think that the new WGS ET-65 speakers needs some time to break in.

Just confirming if anyone else has had this experience before? This is actually the first time I've had new speakers before

Hey Strat!  Sounds like you are well on your way!!!

To answer your question, Yes the ET-65's will definitely benefit from some break in time. I have the Weber Alnico variety of the 1265, and even though they had the Pre-Rola doping and were chemically broken in, they needed some break in time for sure. I feel they are still breaking in and changing even now.

Also, as far as burning the amp in goes, you are going to want to burn it in with some signal going through it. Just letting idle isn't going to do much to help form the caps, and won't help burn the tubes in either. I used the mp3 player plugged in to the amp, turned down about half way to avoid overloading the input section and played a nice selection of jazz at moderate volumes during the day while i was awake at home on my days off (i work nights) and at night i would play it at low volumes. i would normally get about 12 hours or so at a time, and i did this for 3-4 weeks. By then the amp, speakers, and tubes were nicely burned in.

Now, for the fizzy OD i have some tips and questions for ya. Be warned, this is ALOT of info which i have gathered over the last couple of years from a lot of helpful folks here on the forum. here we go!

1)What is your Bias set at? After much experimentation, i have found that the amp will sound best with recommended 55% Bias setting. the actual current level can vary depending on the actual plate voltage your amp has (mine runs at 445 volts, specs is 450, some run as high as 470!!) Check your actual plate voltage, and then set the bias to around 55% using the formula laid out in the manual. Just doing this may surprise you.

2) What is your OD trim set at? The urge is to crank it up, but i most cases the best sounds are attained by setting at noon at the highest.

3) When you use the OD are you using the PAB as well? On the HRM and The Bluesmaster, when you engaged the OD, both tonestacks, the normal external one and the HRM are working. This can make the OD sound pretty bad, as you are now going through two passive tonestacks.  If your HRM Tonestack IS NOT BYPASSED, the way it normally sounds best is to activate the PAB as well, and then adjust your internal trimmers to get the OD tone you want. If your HRM Tonestack IS BYPASSED then your OD tone is controlled solely by the main tonestack and you can adjust your OD tone that way. Be sure to mark the original position of the HRM trimmers with a pencil or a sharpie  before you move em in case you like the default sound

4)If your HRM Tonestack is bypassed you will find that you have a lot more gain (not drive but actual volume gain) available and that it can be hard to balance the volumes. If you have a C-Lator it isn't quite so bad, because you can turn your clean volume up, the OD volume down till they are balanced, and use the C-Lator as a master. There can still be a problem, though, because now the OD volume is so low that the bright cap on the OD level is active and can make the OD sound bright and harsh. There are several options to deal with this:
a) Clip or unsolder the bright cap
b) install a push pull pot in the Level spot and use it to switch the Bright Cap in and out (the standard HRM 50 has this option built in)
c) instead of just lifting the HRM from ground (or using a 22M resistor wired to an on-off-on switch, which ever method Nik used for your amp) use a 15k-30k resistor (suggested by boldaslove) or whichever value gets you where you want as far as HRM bypass and reasonable volume (i used a 68k, because i had one laying around). This will help with the volume jump, and you can have it on a on-off-on switch so you can have HRM engaged, HRM Full Bypass (loud) or HRM Mellow Bypass (Volume more normal)

5) What kind of tubes are you using in your pre amp section I have found that since the majority of the tone of these amps come from the pre amp section, the preamp tubes can make quite an impact on tone, especially the choice in V2 as it is the tube where the gain cascades (OD part of the circuit). There are no hard and fast rules on which sound "better" as tone is subjective, but the higher plate voltages the preamp sections deliver, generally the brighter the tone will be. I actually did some testing on some commonly used tubes and their plate voltages, mainly because there were no HRM Bypassed voltage charts on the ceriatone page, you can see the tests here----> http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=4054.0
Again, that's all just academic, and the only way to find that you like is do some tube rolling. I am currently using ribbed telefunkens in V1 and V2 and find them very well balanced and not fizzy, and a lil on the bright side, which can be good with the Bluesmaster and the 1265's. I did use and still do on occasion use late 50's early 60's GE long plates, they are nice and warm and not fizzy. Probably one of the most overlooked and important tubes in your amp is V3, the Phase inverter. It certainly works very hard, especially in the Bluesmaster due to the design of the PI, and a lot of techs will actually recommend changing it out every time you change your output tubes. A very stout long plate tube is best here, i usually use either a Sovtek LPS or a GT 12AX7R (Groove Tubes handpicked relabeled Sovteks) in V3. Speaking of the PI i have found that in regards to the PI trimmer, mine sounds best with voltage swing of about 7.5 volts instead of the standard 6 volts. Of course, the best and most proper way to set the PI trimmer is with an oscilloscope (it even says so in the manual), but you can also set it by the V3a vs V3b method, just know it isn't the most accurate. Also just as the manual states theres a lot of voltage in there so be careful!!

6) once everything is nice and broken in, try adjusting your internal HRM trimmers and see if you can get a tone that is more to your liking. Again, be sure to mark their original positions and BE CAREFUL. there's alot of voltage in there!!

Wow that is a whole lot of info i just spat out  :o  I'm gonna stop rambling now. Hopefully this will help you a bit. If i confused you or overloaded you i apologize i was on a roll!!!

Gregg

Hey SUltra,

Your concern is totally understandable.  From personal experience, I too had to wait for the amp to burn it before I could really bond with it.  Word on the forum from other folks trends the same.  

Since it's both the OD on the amp and your OD pedals, odds are that it is a speaker break-in issue.  I remember having a WGS 65 with a C-tone 36w clone and that the speaker did need some time to break in (I use EVs for the OTS).

I have pretty much exactly the same amp as you minus the mods.  Mine is a 100w too.  Here is some basic setup advice for yah:

Set your Master/OD level above 5 and use the C-lator as a Master.  Upping the signal into the power amp adds tons of sustain and creaminess to the OD.  It MIGHT (not sure) also help speed breakin.

Set the Input knob at around 5 - 7.  This may have been covered and you may already know this, but just in case, the input knob is your preamp vol.  It cascades into the tonestack and OD channel.  Setting this too low will give you grainy, fizzy OD.  In order to get the sustain you want, this needs to be up there.  It also warms up the cleans a lot.  

Set it to the Jazz channel, engage the mid-switch.  Trust me, this will get you a long way towards JM's sound.  

The Presence control not only sets chime, but also attack.  Fast attack when dialed up, slow attack when dialed down.  This can have a significant affect on your tone depending on your playing style.  

Do not set the OD trim above 11 o'clock.  After that (at least on mine), the OD gets fizzy with my LP.  Different with the strat, but I still don't go into any afternoon positions.  

If you can, put a NOS RCA into V1 and a JAN GE Phillips into V2.  V3 likes the Sovtek 12ax7LPS.  The first and last you can get from Mike at KCANOS Tubes for reasonable prices (get an A(lmost)NOS RCA from him, much cheaper, still great).  I like the TAD 6L6's in the Power section, but you don't need to switch out if you don't want to.  Likely the JJ in V1 is causing some of the darkness in the tone--I find them darker to the ear, others may not.  
Here's his site:
http://www.kcanostubes.com/
His prices may be a bit higher than other companies for NOS stuff, but I have to say that he knows his tubes, thoroughly tests, and is great at recommendations.  If you were to go through him, you could get the whole setup for around $200.  But again, you don't NEED to do this.  And I'm sure others can chime in with other tube recommendations.

2 years in and this is what I've learned with this amp.  And I'm still learning, which I think is great.  

+1 to all that Rane said!

I walked out to have a smoke and realized i kinda forgot about the Jazz setting, the pre amp volume, and the presence control. Doh!!

The only other things i can add are, keep the bass dialed down lower than you might on other amps, especially with the 1265's. The BM is very bass heavy, and while my Delta 12's take all the bass in stride (i can actually run the bass around 4'o clock with those) the 1265's definitely don't appreciate it! Also, believe it or not the Deep switch can be your friend. It doesn't add more bass or fatten it up, in fact, it tightens the bass up considerably. You can really notice this effect in Jazz mode, and with presence up.

Finally, here's a tip if you plan on running with the HRM bypassed. A JAN GE 5751 in V2 works very nicely with the HRM bypassed. It has a very warm, thick, fat, smooth sound, which really compliments the less compressed OD sound you get when you bypass the HRM. Also, it slightly boosts the upper mids nicely. The practical upshot of this is that your clean sound can now sound more BF fender because you can switch the mid boost off, and back the mids down. This way you can get those typical sparkly slightly scooped BF cleans and then when you switch to the OD you will have nice fat, smooth OD  with slightly boosted mids to help get that nice fat singing sustain we all want, no tube screamer required!

Gregg

I must say, the information that you guys gave me is worth it's weight in gold!

I've tried the suggested settings and the Fizzyness with the OD is almost all gone! Still need to tweak a little further, but it's getting close to where I'd like the OD would be. I found it a little odd, because when playing the amp today, my OD pedals seem to sound better than it did yesterday which prompted me to start tweaking the amp.

In terms of the tubes, i think I'll be looking at the suggested tubes because the JJ's are sure on the darker side, especially with the cleans. Right now, I'd like to change the pickups out of the strat first. One of the bright switches on the clator seems to remedy this, however it throws the OD off when on. Perhaps with further tweaking, I may not need to change the tubes.

My impression of the amp thus far, is that it is an amazingly complex amp with all the controls having a very close relationship with each other. Each control may seem subtle in the way it affects the tone, however a slight tweak on one, will open up a new range of tone when tweaking another control. Less is more on this amp.

Like many of you have suggested, it is going to be long journey ahead of me.... But a fun one at that :)

Thank you all again for taking the time to provide advice and suggestions on getting me started. Great to be apart of a forum where everyone is super helpful!

Hey Strat!

Glad you are getting closer to the tone you want! Yes indeed all the tone controls are very interactive with each other. I, much like everyone else, i'm sure learned very quickly that small changes in settings can add up to huge differences in tone. I, like you use the bright switches on my amp and c-lator, due to the fact that the 1265's roll off/disperse the highs so much. i have found that the first bright switch, the one next to the drive knob, works pretty well in conjunction with the bright switch on the amp IF you have the drive turned up past 2 o'clock. That's another thing, aside from keeping the "In" Knob on the C-Lator aimed, and using the "Out" as your over all master the Drive knob can either make your OD tone awesome, or crappy. If you have no effects in the loop, or ones that can take a higher signal level, keep the Drive knob on the c-lator at 2 o'clock or higher and you will be rewarded with great OD tone.

Here's something else about the BM that is nice... the OD tones you can by simply running the clean channel hard and using either the stock or modified MEGA PAB (22M resistor lifting the stack instead of a 68k one) or nice clean boost pedal are simply nothing short of bad ass. Very fat singing OD that is not as compressed as the OD on the drive side, and by using either the PAB or your boost pedal, you can get a lil more out of it for solos or chunkier rhythm passages. Just set your preamp volume to some where between 1 o clock and 3 o clock to taste, your master to about 4 or 5 o clock, and use your c-lator as a global master, and start playing! you can adjust your pre amp volume and tonestack the tone you want, and the whack it either the PAB or boost pedal and i guarantee you will be smiling ear to ear. I will admit that this usually sounds better through my delta 12 speakers than my 1265's... more on that in the next paragraph.

To be honest, as much as i like the 1265's i still feel that they are somewhat of a compromise and not the best match for the Bluesmaster. A few members on here tried to steer me away from em, but it was too late as i had already ordered em, so i carried on and figured i'd give them a try and break em in and see what happens. Overall i like em, but I think the main reason the 1265's aren't as good in the BM as the other OTS amps is that the BM has such a huge amount of deep and tight low and mid bass, and the overall soundstage is just way bigger, and  the 1265's and some of the other british style speakers just don't have the low end response to reproduce it and they get flubby, even with the deep switch and presence on to tighten it up.  I switched out the speakers again for my old Delta 12's yesterday, and despite the fact that they are right at 20 years old, dried out and a lil flat, the bass response is all there and it makes the overall tone SO much better.

My point is, that after the speakers are well broken in and you do a bunch of tube rolling and tweaking, and it still isn't quite where ya want it, don't get discouraged and sell the amp like i have seen a few guys here do. It may just be time to try out some other speakers. Even though some hardline D-style guys will say that the 1265 is the ONLY way to go, many members on this forum have proven otherwise. I know of at least one member here that used and may still be using a 4x10 cab. Quite a few BM owners have used the EVM12L, the Celestion Gold, Eminence Texas heat, Weber 12F150 or !2A150, etc.

My plan at the moment is to go with either the Weber Michigan Ceramic or the Eminence Delta Pro 12A, both of which are based off of the EVM12L (the alnico version of the Weber Michigan is said to be more like the EVM12S), and see if I can get more of what I am looking for.

Well, i made another long post  ;) have fun with the amp and let us know how things progress!!

Gregg

Gregg, a couple of quick things.

It was my understanding that on the clator, the drive knob controlled the overall master out.  On mine the order of knobs, from left to right, is drive, in, out.  Drive is the overall master for the unit, in sets the signal back down to avoid overdriving time based effects, and out is the output of the unit back into the effects. So drive is kinda of a volume recovery for any volume lost in the unit due to use of the in knob. This is how Nik explained it to me, but I could be wrong. 

Second, if you want to try an EVM, I would just sit and wait for a used one to pop up on my local craigslist. You can usually get them for $100 or so, they are pretty fully broken in, and it's the real thing. Another great option though is the weber Michigan 15" speaker. The 15 can handle bass like no other. Just a thought.


Stephen

Stephen

Actually there is more than one way to skin the cat on this one  ;)

Method 1: "drive" controls the signal going out to the effects from the c-lator, "In" controls the amount of signal returning from your effects to the c-lator, usually you would want this up full. "drive" and "in" basically control the level of signal being mixed to "Out" which controls the amount of signal returning to the amp from the c-lator. "Out" is what becomes the global master, should you choose to use the c-lator in that fashion. This is how it is laid out in the manual.

Method 2: you can also run "out" all the way up, and adjust "drive" and "in" and use the actual masters on the amp to control your volume. this method allows you to drive the PI harder, this is also in the manual.

Method 3: The method you use. Hey, if it works, and that's how Nik explained it to ya then let it ride!!

As far as the speaker goes, i may sit and wait, but knowing myself like i do, i prolly won't  ;D

Gregg

Just to clarify for future reference and to reiterate, for the most part Gregg's "method 1".

The "Drive" control adjusts the level of the signal coming from the preamp of the amp going to the effects input or whatever's in the Clator's loop. "IN" sets the level of the signal coming back from the effects and "OUT" is a tube gain stage that is used to make up any lost volume from turning down the volume at DRIVE or IN. It "recovers" volume, and is the global, "master" volume control for the signal coming out of the C-lator.

Thanks for wording it properly, Chris. It's been a long 3 days and i really haven't slept much  ::) 

You're quite welcome, although I mostly just copied and pasted how the manual puts it. ;) I mainly wanted to make sure that people know the "Drive" does not control the overall master volume. I feel it's easy to confuse the "Drive" knob due to the way it's worded. I built my Clator from scratch and like a big dummy never got a around to putting lables on the front, so for the longest time I needed to re-confirm just what each knob did.

Exactly. When I first got it, I just kept telling myself that drive drives the signal to the pedals, and out controls the overall output :)

Gregg

Well I'll be a sonuvabitch.  Ha! I've been using the drive as the overall master for like a year now.  Geez. About to fire the girl up so I'll let you know how it sounds when done correctly! Hehe.

Heh heh. Cool man! Wasn't yours sounding awesome already? It's prolly gonna sound godlike now!! ;)

Hey Guys,

So been searching/asking questions on ampgarage.com (which most of you probably know, but is a GREAT resource) and found this post by Ayan about setting the HRM trimmers, so I'm x-posting it here:


[Having built enough HRMs, I think I have some global settings that will probably work as a starting point for someone new to tweaking the HRM beast. To me, those controls proved to be almost as difficult to tweak as the PI trimmer. Let me qualify my answer below, my goal was to try to set the HRM tone controls so that the OD would be more or less an extension of the clean sound, and not sound buzzy when the gain was turned up. If, on the contrary, you want to dial a radical overdrive with tons of low end, the HRM will probably be much easier to fine tune. Having said this:

1. The bass trimmer is 1 Meg and linear which means most of your bass will come on all of a sudden as you turn up the trimmer. I think I found my sweet spot around 90-100 Ohms beween the wiper (which is tied to the CW end) and the CCW end. Some people set this higher, but I think in most cases replacing the 1 Meg trimmer with a 500K ohm one would make the range more usable.

2. The middle control is 20K and, IMHO, it can make or break the sound of the amp. I would set mine around 8 K between the wiper (again, tied to the CW end) and the CCW end. Now, the advantage of turning the bass up from my starting point is that you will have more of a usable range in the middle and treble controls before the amp sounds harsh. The problem to me was that turning the bass higher would make the OD sound less like the clean channel.

3. The treble control will adjust the overall brightness of the sound. The trimmer is 250K and I would set mine with about 100K between the wiper (not tied to the CW end) and the CCW end.

Mind you, speaker choice will change things radically, and my settings were tamer than everyone else I ever talked to about this. I use EVM speakers, which most people consider to be bright, and in 1x12 configurations. If you use a 2x12 or 4x12 cabinet with Celestions, you will probably be able to -- and need to -- turn all trimmers up, especially midrange and treble.

Agreed that, ideally, these controls would be outside the amp so that you could go for midrange heavy to scooped tonality at will. The most elegant implementation I have seen was by Gary Johnson, since he worked towards customizing the range of the controls to where there is not a bad sound to be dialed in on his amps -- can't say the same about some Marshalls, for example.

Hope this helps a bit,

Gil]

Now, I'm no electrical engineer, but I'm guessing that a decent tech could set this up for you.  Also, the goal on this was to get a smooth OD, so there you go.

Another thing: Checking the PI Trimmer is also a good idea to get your notes to bloom.  Run a search on the ampgarage for this and see what you come up with.

Last, (and Gregg, this is definitely for you), if you decide to go the EV route like me, I highly recommend a Thiele ported cab.  The ports allow great bass dispersion, keeping it from being boomy.  I can run my Bass up as high as 5 on my BM with the neck pup of my Les Paul, no boom-boom.  My recommendation re builder would be Alf Hermida at Hermida Audio.  Great prices, great work, light materials. 

Stephen

Edit: Here is the thread.  You need to create an account, but it's not a big deal.  Great guys on that forum.

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17550

Third Post in a Day!

haha

Dialing in the OD on ANY HRM is, well it's a bitch.  Too true, too many options.  So, let me offer this bit of advice that I just tested and found to be pretty awesome:
1. Turn on the PAB.  The tonestack passthrough is best for testing this.
2. Set the OD trimmer below 9 o'clock. 
3. Test all settings on the Drive Control.  If they don't ALL sound good AND give you the amount of drive you're looking for, adjust the OD trimmer appropriate.
4. Repeat until you get it set to something that does work.
5. Remain Awesome.

Here's the thing: that OD trim would be better left on the inside.  Like many other people, I thought you needed to set the trimmer at a respectable level to get a respectable amount of drive.  Not True.  You can get about as much gain out of the Drive control as you can out of the OD trim.  It's become a "set and forget" thing for me now.  Hope I don't bump it around on accident...

Let me know what you guys think of this. 

Just a little update,

The amp certainly sounds much better after some tweaks but admittedly I haven't had as much time to play it as much as I'd like as of late. Having a newborn and work has been taking up most of my time.

Gregg- like you, I've engaged the bright switch on the Clator which is closer to the drive knob which improve and brightens things up, but I'm finding that i need to wind the treble almost to 10 to get it sounding nice and crisp. The bright pull switch on the volume doesn't appear to do too much to help, and when engaging the secondary bright switch on the Clator next to the out knob, it causes a nasty hissing. The secondary switch does help brighten it up, but the hissing annoys me too much to use it. If I remember correctly, engaging all the switch switches didn't work well with the OD channel.

In terms of the OD, although it isnt quite where i want it to be, I think I'll eventually be able to tune this to my liking, but the next steps will be to change the speaker to a EVM to naturally brighten her up without having to set the treble at max to get those crisp cleans, and possibly replacing the tubes as suggested above to enhance the tones.

Hey thanks Stephen,

Ive been taking that same approach to dial in the OD, but it seems that the bluesmaster sounds best with very little drive on the OD trimmer about 9 and the gain set higher beyond 12 o'clock. Even at those settings, there isn't as such drive as I like, and Anythig beyond gets fizzy.... I'll keep a tweaking though!

Tube and Speaker change are your best bets, I think.  Seriously, check out Mike at kcanostubes.com.  Great guy and you can get what you need. 

A used EVM-12L shouldn't cost more than $120.  Keep checking local craigslists. 

Will do! Only problem with the EVM is that I'm in the land down under.... Shipping here would be a fortune and EVMs aren't readily available on the second hand market :(

In terms of the tubes, that shouldn't be an issue as he ships international :)

I haven't bothered with the internal HRM trimmers yet. Got too much knobs as it is ( no jokes please! Haha).

Hmm, one of the reasons why I went with a Clator was that I could drive the preamp for the OD but still be able to play at low volumes. Was I wrong in this assumption?

I haven't yet been able to play the amp at volume yet, but now I'm keen to. To be honest, I spend most of my time playing at low volumes, which makes me wonder if I made the wrong choice. YouTube clips are deceiving in the sense that you really can't get a feel for how loud the amps are being run at :/

You can get plenty of great tones off this amp at bedroom levels using the Clator.  Will it sound better at gig levels? Yeah it will, but you can still do some great work at quieter volumes.  The weber Michigan ceramic may be a good alternative to the EV for you.  Affordable and they ship internationally.

Yes, I have to take exception to not getting good tones at bedroom levels. Of course the louder the better. But that is really all dependent on room size. Becuase "too loud" is possible too......Well, at age 47, it is. ;D

This is at very, very quiet "bedroom" levels. The amp had about 25 hrs. of playing time on it. If you listen close at the end you can hear me switching the footswitches to show how quiet it was.  http://home.comcast.net/~soundperf/myfilelocker/Music/HRM50_Jam_CAN.mp3 (http://home.comcast.net/~soundperf/myfilelocker/Music/HRM50_Jam_CAN.mp3)

I know having just a 1x12 setup is desirable, but maybe the reason why I never had any issues with speakers and getting a balanced sound was going with a 2x12 with two different speakers from the start.

I also disagree that the internal trimmers aren't important. I barely have the bass trim on, but I spent a good bit of time finding that "barely on" sweet spot. Also the treble is very sensitive on mine. Too much on that trim and it was crappy O/D. And while, I'm tempted to say not mess with the internals until the amp is broken in, that's not completely necesarry. It just may be necesarry to go back later on and re-tweak them. While, I have my amp pretty much "set & forget" now, I don't assume that I'll never have to go back and mess with things. Especially if I go with a completely different set of tube, etc.

I also agree with this. I have found that using the amp and the c-lator together, i can get awesome sounds at both bedroom levels and gig levels. Most of the magic in the D-Style amps is in the pre-amp, and they were designed to sound great at low and high volume. This is why they are so responsive to changes in preamp tubes and changes in preamp voltages. The output section sounds its best when biased colder than most rock tube amps (55% vs 70% or higher) and it's this fact that allows the amp, coupled with the c-lator to sound good at both low and high volumes. I am defintely going to order a Weber Michigan (or two) and see how it sounds. I think that the Alnico 1265 and the Ceramic Michigan will either sound pretty good together...or not lol. we'll see.


Gregg

Any updates, Stratultra? Getting any closer to the sound you are looking for?

Gregg

I've just had about 2 hours with the amp and I'm still struggling to get the OD right. At the moment, it's either too little gain or too it gets too fizzy. Even though the gain is set at about 6 or 7 and 10 o'clock on the back trim, it sounds at its best at those settings where there is a hair of overdrive and anymore seems to get fizzy. It seems I'm having some difficulties in dialing in that syrupy OD i was looking for. My v3 OCD sounds closer to what I'm after at the moment.

Not sure if I just need more time to tweak and wait for the circuit to break in (and speakers) or it is a limitation on the amp. Keen to get Gregg's and Stephen's feedback on this seeing that they have the same amp.

Hey Chris, thats some very tasteful playing there! Just got around to listening it now. In saying that, I'm not able to get anything close to the OD tones you're getting. Out of curiosity, didnthe characteristics of the OD on the amp change much after 25 hours of playtime? Sounds like it was played with some humbuckers.... Which makes me think, I've been playing the BM with my strat mostly because the 59ri needs a good setup and is with my luthier at the moment. Perhaps the BM is better suited with humbuckers?

Well, I can tell you it took me a little while to get the OD where I like it. I think some of was break in time on both the amp and speaker side, some of it was Bypassing the HRM (although now i can get pretty good tones with the HRM, as well), and some was some tube rolling and changes in my playing technique. I can tell you that i keep my OD trim at about 10 or 11 o clock most of the time, and depending on how i have the drive set on the c-lator and which guitar i'm using,  the drive on the OD channel can be set anywhere from 12 o clock to 3 or 4 o clock

The OD is about 85% where I want it now, and i am pretty sure it's the speakers that are holding me back.

That said, yesterday i ordered a ceramic paper dome California and a ceramic paper dome Michigan from Weber. I listened to quite a few clips and read quite a few posts saying that these two particular speakers play well together, and that The paper dome California is like a JBL D120, but without the ice pick, and handles overdrive tones better than the original JBL, and that the Michigan is similar to the EV, either the 12L or the SRO, depending on who you ask. Long and short of being, i should have a nice bright, yet warm and rounded clean and OD tone from the California and a similar sound with the Michigan, although not quite as bright as the California, but with nice tight, full, deep bass response and a "creamy" high end when the OD kicks in; in short they should cover everything the BM can throw at it.

I think the BM likes humbuckers or high outout single coils for OD, but at the same time, my Dano sounds awesome through it. Again, i think alot of the woes i have now are in the speakers. they are kinda middy, but they also want a lot of mids to sing, and to a degree it can make the OD sound kinda generic. My old Delta 12's sound much better than the 1265's as far as nice tight deep bass and the mids are better controlled, but they are so old and worn out that they struggle to reproduce high frequencies well, and i worry about blowing em. the other 2 drivers that were in the 4x12 have dry rotted, i'm surpised these are still around.

Anyway, i think time and some tweaking will help everything come together on the OD for ya. If not, i would suggest trying different speakers. in my case i figure even if i don't like the Cali and the MI i can flip em pretty quickly, and if i do like em, i can always sell the 1265 alnicos and make someone else happy!

Hope this helps!

Gregg

Thanks Gregg, it gives me some solace to know that over time it'll sound better. Oddly enough, all of my axes are low wound. The strat has some lace sensors in them at the moment, but I've managed to source some lollar blondes which I'll get then in next week. Probably won't help my cause with the lollars, but the 59ri and gretch have standard pickups in them which are low wound too.

Are you able to get Chris's tone as he's sound clip out of your BM? It's actually the tone that I'm after!

It might be a little impatient on my behalf, but I am trying to get my hands into a EVM. Might take me a while to get one used, but it just might give me the time got the wgs to break in till I make that decision. I think the tube replacement is in order rather sooner than later though, or I'll just wait till I get the EVM and order them at the same time.

Shame that the time isn't quite there now, has I have a few mates keen on checking the amp out! Hehe

Well, you can get those classic D-Style HRM sounds out of the BM, especially with the 1265's or with the speaker combo that Chris has, but it's a lil more agressive and "bigger" and "fatter" so to speak. In other words the BM is usually a lil less compressed, and less refined than the HRM or the OTS for that matter, mainly due to the design of the PI and the OD setup itself. To me the BM has always been more early Bassman/Early Marshall, especially when you drive the clean channel hard and then boost it. To me, the OD on the BM sounds much better with the HRM bypassed. It has much more of an overdriven/hot rodded Fender vibe to it than a hot rodded marshall vibe. Like Chris i found it very difficult, although, not impossible to find that sweet spot on the trimmers, and not make it sound like a totally different amp than the clean side.
One thing to remember is the HAD added the HRM to amps as a modification/upgrade AFTER they were built and it's possible that there were some amps he built with the Bluesmaster tonestack and no HRM and added then later, either as a result of  customer request or after suggesting it. Greg (boldaslove69) would probably be the best to confirm that. So bear that in mind.

Hey Strat,

So a couple of things:
1. I can get the sound that Chris is getting on his recordings pretty easy.  Using just a LP and the BM with the Clator controlling global.  Note, though, that it sounds like he's running a delay, so that will add to the dimensionality.  
2. Change the tubes sooner rather than later.  I'd definitely recommend an ANOS RCA in V1 for the clean side.  Makes a world of difference.  In V2 (gain channel), I've tried TAD 7025's, the JJ's, a JAN Phillips 5571, and the RI Tung-Sols.  Of all those, I like the Tung-Sol's best BUT you should only buy from a seller that tests the tubes well.  Unfortunately, the TSs are notorious for failing, but I got mine from a reputable dealer, and haven't had an issue.  Again, you could also go NOS or ANOS GE or Sylvanias in the V2.  I also have a Sovtek 12ax7-LPS in the phase inverter, and that sounds great.  Power tubes are TAD 6L6GC.  I may not change the power tubes, though, until you decide to take the amp in for a tuneup or to have someone get into the internal trims as you will need a rebias.  If you can do this yourself, good on ya.  I certainly cannot, hehe.
3. For me, making my strat sound good with the BM means I have to turn up the Input knob.  Right now, I plug into LO with the LP and HI for the Strat, unless I really want to push the preamps in clean mode.  Another option that many use is to get a good clean boost pedal (more money, I know).  The Keeley Katana and the Xotic EP-1 are known for sounding great.  I have been demoing the latter and it does live up to they hype.  Or you could get a Zendrive to use for clean and solo boosting.
4. Gregg is fully correct when he says this amp makes you learn to vary your pick attack.  So much control over the sensitivity is daunting at first, but with some practice, you can learn to tame her down some, but still get growl when you want.  In fact, for most of what I'm playing (save some alt-rock stuff), I've left the plectrum and gone back to finger picking.  
5. Just as a comparison, I'm running my OD trim at 8 or 9 o'clock, and with the above tube/speaker choices, have usable OD throughout the enter drive knob sweep, which with the PAB engaged easily gets into heavy distortion.  
6. This is just a heads up but a guy near me is selling 2x EV 12Ls for US$80/each.  Shipping would be about $60 via USPS.  I will be in the area by this guy sometime next week can could check them out, so I wanted to give you the heads up.  Here's the link:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/msg/2955324899.html

I agree with the idea of doing some tube rolling. The first preamp tubes i had in mine were from thetubestore.com's "preferred series". they were 7025's, which, of course are low noise 12AX7's. I have a snekay suspicion that these are relabled TAD's and are therefore either relabled Shuguang 12AX7-B or Sovteks, most likely the Shugaungs, since their internal structure is identical. They sound very nice and clear, but were a bit too sterile for my taste. I put one in my C-Lator in place of the stock JJ and it made a world of difference. It is much quieter, brighter, and has even more of that "3D"-ish sound that the c-lator is touted to bring. As far as V1 and V2 go, basically, experimentation is the way to go.

My two faves in V1 depend on which speakers i am using. With the Deltas, and prolly with the California and Michigan when i get em i love GE Long Plates from the late 50's and Early 60's. very nice and warm and detailed, and well balanced, ans a nice amount of drive when the clean channel is pushed. With the 1265's a like the Telefunken Ribbed plates. Also very nice and warm and balance, but with extended high frequencies to make up for the exterme warmth of the 1265's.

In V2 i also like the GE Long plates or the Telefunkens, depending on the speakers. When i was running the JAN Phillips 6L6WGB's in the power section, which sound awesome, but don't last long in the OTS :), i like the GE Long plates in V1 regardless of speaker choice, and a JAN GE 5751 in V2. This combo yielded the sweetest sound; full deep tight bass, nice singing but not overbearing mids, and enough highs to be present with the 1265's. Sadly, again the 6L6WGB;s just can't take the voltage of the OTS, more the Screen Voltage than the Plate Voltage, oddly enough. I have considered adding VVR to the power section of the BM just so i can run em, but that would be crazy, right??  ;D

In the power section i tried the aforementioned 6L6WGB's, some older Sovtek 6L6/5881's (which are neither 6L6's or 5881's), that i have a stash of from when i was running my Sovtek head most of the time, and TAD 6L6WGC's. So far i'm diggin the TAD's. Again, TAD's are relabled Shuguangs, but they sound great, have not drifted a bit, and are very affordable! I just ordered a set of Tungsol "Reissue" 6L6GC's, just to see what they are all about.

Like Stephen i tend to buy all my tubes from Mike@ kcanostubes.com. He is a great guy, and tests his tubes well, and can even give you advice on what you may like based on your tastes and setup. I've only had one tube go bad from him, but in fairness it was an ANOS (used) tube from the 1950's, and it had been in my Ampeg Jet, which is a great amp to find if your tubes are microphonic, have a tendency to be microphonic, or to make your tubes microphonic  ;D it's so bad i call it the tube eater, and i think that it contributed greatly to that tube's demise, so you can buy from Mike without worrying too much  ;D


Gregg

+1 on the TADs.  I actually put a TAD 7025 in the Clator too!  Does in fact sound good.  I prefer the Tung-sols for cost effective choices for the V2.  The TADs I have in the power section have been there for almost 2 years, daily playing, running pretty hot.  Really good choice.

Boy, you guys have been busy typing. ;) Also, thanks for the comments on my clips.

To give some specifics on the setup at the time of the clip I posted. I plugged directly into the amp. It was done before I had the C-lator and I was using a Kleinulator. It has a delay in the loop and a reverb pedal. But no post processing at all. At that time I didn't have any NOS tubes and it was just Tung Sol 12AX7's in the preamp and TAD 6L6 wgc str's. I find these tubes to be quite nice and would recommend them as a great cost effective meat & potatoes tube set. I have since put a RCA Grey Short Plate in V1 and that really made things nice. The clip is using a combination of single coils and humbuckers (PRS 513) and yes, the "creamier" the O/D the "humbuckier". That's not a word, but it is now. :) I would suggest playing with some humbuckers sooner than later. Not so much that great sounds can't be achieved with single coils, in fact there's certain tones that can only be gotten with single coils. It's just that you will get a taste of just how sensitive the front end is to different signal levels and how this drives the amp.

As far as the amp getting smoother after 25 hrs, yes it has, but it has always been a subtle thing at most. One thing that I have always said is "less is more" with these amps. But another thing I had to break myself of, was thinking that using other O/D pedals or whatever would somehow be sacrilege or something. Basically, I'm not beyond wanting some over the top distortion now and then, which the HRM by itself is not exactly going to get without getting into the fizzy area. (although, I have gotten it to be damn close to over the top without fizzy's at higher volumes) My setup now consists of a Compressor > Xotic BB preamp for a clean boost or a bit beyond that > modded tube screamer > Univibe > Amp. I use the gain/drive pedals to cascade along with the amp O/D to get every level of O/D I want.

Another thing that helped me was when I stopped trying to get it to sound like clips I heard and just let it sound like the the amp it is. There are so many variables that play a role in duplicating certain sounds that it can be overwhelming. Once I did this I all of sudden realized it was sounding a lot closer to that Dumbly sound than I had thought before.

I agree with the others that if you're using all JJ's that it could be some of the problem. I have always felt the JJ's were a bit too gainy for this amp. When I first built the amp and didn't want to waste brand new tubes in case I blew it up, I put some older Mesa Boogie tubes I had from a Rectifier, which I assumed were higher gain Chinese preamp and power tubes. It was impossible to get it to not sound harsh. Now I will admit it was brand new, but as soon as I felt it was safe, I put the tube I use now and it immediately was on the right road. 

Stick with it, and try some different guitars if you can, just to get more of a feel for the subtle differences things can make.

P.S.
oh, and on the EVM12L or S. I got to play through an EVM12S a while back and I must say that is was a really nice sound and I see why so many like them. They really can handle anything these amps can throw at them and they also compress (or something) in a very musical way. It wasn't enough to make me run out and have to have one right that minute, but someday I probably would like to have a cab with one or two.

+1 on the use of drive pedals.  John Mayer, for instance, rarely uses the OD channel on his Two Rocks or Dumbles.  Often, it's a modded TS-808 (or -9, whatever) that he uses with a pushed clean and PAB engaged.  I have found that this amp + a good rangemaster clone (Keeley Java Boost, Analogman Beano, D*A*M Red Rooster) is about all you need for a multitude of tones.  I also have a germanium fuzz in the chain in case I need it... and a DS-1.  I love the DS-1.

I'm glad i'm not the only one who drives the clean channel and boosts it on the BM. To me, the OD channel is like an added bonus, but i really like using a clean boost on the clean channel driven hard. quite a sound!

Thnaks for the advice guys, makes me think how great of a bunch we have on this forum!

I've got my eyes on some tubes which are RCA Long grey/black plate 12ax7 for V1 and SOVTEK 12AX7LPS
 For V3. I might go for the Tung sol for V2.

Stephen, thanks mate and really appreciate it. I might see if I can contact the seller and see if he will ship the speaker for me. If I can possibly bother you to inspect them it would be awesome!

With these tubes and speaker changes, hopefully that will get me in the right ball park on the OD. Keen to get the 59ri back to give it a good tweak

Just managed to source a EVM12L thats been reconed.

Looking forward to picking up the speaker up this weekend!

The Tubes are soon to be purchased.

Sweet!!! Let us know how it goes!!

Ahh, that sounds like a good direction to head. Keep us updated.

Well, it changes the character of the OD, but I wouldn't necessarily say it makes it sound more or less like a typical d-style amp. It makes it sound more "open" if you will, less compressed, and more like an overdriven fender than an overdriven marshall. It's an easy one wire mod to see if you like it or not. There is quite a volume jump if you simply unground the stack, so be prepared for that. With the HRM engaged I usually keep the master on the OD side at 5/10 with the HRM ungrounded I keep it at about 3/10 to have the same volume level. This means that you are sitting on the bright cap of the OD master, so it can be a lil bright, but you can clip the bright cap for the test and resolved it later, or put it on a push pull like the standard HRM has, or put a 20k-68k resistor on the HRM ground instead of just ungrounding it, so there will be less of a volume jump.

Gregg

Hmm, did you have Nik install a half power switch on yours? On a 100w the half power works really nicely, as it drops two of the tubes out instead of being pentode/triode. If not you can pull two of the tubes, either the inside two or outside two, I can't remember which, this can take some of the loud out.

Also, do you switch your PAB all the time when you used the OD? If not you are going through both tonestacks and can make the HRM trimmers seem like they are less effective.

As far as the conversion goes, I'm not sure how simple it is, because the OD section and PI of the BM is a lil different, so bear that in mind. Just food for thought.

Gregg

Indeed, the BM has a lot of bass response, but one thing to remember is that the tonestack is very much classic fender, and Leo designed his amps for his guitars, which had less bass output than Gibson's and others, so his amps have more low end. Using the deep switch can help, because it tightens the bass response up, and makes the amp less boomy.  You can also switch out the slope resistor to a higher value (68k seems to work well) and switch the bass pot out to a 250k to change the bass response.

Gregg

Cool. Just out of curiosity, what kind of speakers are you running with your BM?

Gregg

To be honest I had a few thoughts that I should of went for the classic OTS non HRM instead of the BM when I first got the amp. I've been looking for that syrupy type OD that's associated to dumbles, but so far it's been closer to a fender hybrid with marshal type drive. It's not that it's bad and is actually good, but it's just different to what I expected.

Its a complex amp and I'm still learning it, so it maybe just a combination of me learning the amp and not having the right speaker and tube combination, not allowing the amp to sound it best. The advice I've received from this forum has been encouraging, and the general consensus has been the BM will get me that well sort after dumble OD.

I'm going to try different tubes and a EVM12L to see if that changes things, but I'd been keen to see if you do take on the HRM conversion and would follow that very closely......

On a side note, I'm getting awfully close to getting the right tones on the OD channel, and I think the speaker change with the tube rolls will get me even closer. Not having much joy with the PAB engaged with the OD at the same time though. Sounds flabby/muddy with it engaged..... Also struggling to keep the cleans good while I'm happy with the OD. Much of the OD tone shaping comes from the drive from the clator which smooths out the OD when rolled up, but it also affects the clean channel. Odd, as I though this affected only the input signal going into the pedals via the FX loop?

the c-lator affects both the clean and drive channels. The Drive knob controls how much signal goes thru the send and return going to your effects, but it also affects how much signal is finally output as well, just as rolling your guitar's volume up and down would.

it shouldn't sound more muddy with the PAB engaged, if anything it should sound less muddy. hmm now i'm curious

Oh sorry, let me retract that comment

 PAB + OD it sounds fizzy and harsh. PAB + clean it sounds muddy

i wanted to post a few youtube clips from forum member mckinku and a live clip i found from a guy named sam berce. i kinda wanna show the Bluesmaster doing what its best and, how it truly sounds, to kinda get everyone on the same page. These clips, to me are very representative of the Bluesmaster, and how mine sounds with the Deltas in it and hopefully how it will sounds with the California and Michigan in it. With the 1265's it is not nearly as punchy and well defined.

The Bluesmaster really has a voice that is different from the rest of the OTS series, and while it can get close to the others, it just is not what it's best at. Of course, these are with the HRM engaged. I have yet to find any clips with it bypassed, and i don't have any decent recording equipment...yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7oXAKpokaQ&feature=channel&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2beFti9-LM&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12exqebEo8A&feature=channel&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhtwRZWTmQQ&feature=channel&list=UL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PthPfrZ8YCo

ah, ok. That actually makes more sense. Mine was like that at first, and after a while the harshness and fizziness went away, and the clean channel doesn't sound muddy with the PAB either. The clean channel can get muddy with the PAB engaged depending on how you have the input and master volumes set, and if you have the bright switches on or off, and depending on where you have the presence set at. How to set the controls depends alot on your guitar, and which input you are using. Personally, i never use the low input; i found it made all my guitars sound muddy. The way you have your c-lator set can affect all of it as well. It can be tricky and frustrating to get it right, believe me i went through it  ;), but when you get it right, believe me, you will be in heaven!

Gregg

The 7025 is a total game changer for the c-lator. Every other tube i stuck in there produced alot of hiss. I can see why fender recommended them for a while.

Thanks for reminding me why I choose this amp Gregg!

Now I remember, this amp sounds a little more versatile to me, whereas the OTS sounded very particular in it's tone.

I'm sure all the hard work will pay off :)

Glad i could help! I am sure it will pay off. I am even more convinced after the little experiment i just finished up.

On a whim i decided to hook the BM up to the speakers in my JC-90. Wowsers!!! I know i am going to be very happy when the Cali and the Michigan get here! I have been a/b'n the 1265's and my old deltas, just to make sure i wasn't hearing what i wanted to hear. The final result is that the 1265's just can't handle all the low end that the BM has, and aren't quite as bright as i like and the deltas can handle the lows, but they are so old and worn out that they really can't get the mids or highs like the should.

The JC-90 speakers, which are 10" eminence speakers (i don't know which line) handle all the lows, mids and highs perfectly and the amp sounded perfectly balanced on both the clean and OD side for the first time!I really think that the Cali with its JBL heritage and the Michigan with its EV heritage may end up being the perfect combo for this amp! I am the most stoked i have been since i first got the amp!  :chairdance:

So, Strat, i am positive that your hard work will pay off, and that when you get the new tubes and the EV in there, you will be ecstatic!

Gregg

That's great news! You sure sound excited about getting the new speakers.

On my end, I've just picked up the EV today and should be able to get it in this weekend. Need to head out and buy a new speaker cable as the WGS came with one soldered on.

Will probably order the tubes tomorrow....all on track!

Very cool!!
Yes i got a lil to excited yesterday, lack of sleep will do that to ya  ;D

Just a lil tip for ya, you can always just de solder the leads from the warehouse speaker, and then slide em in to the posts of the EV, which, if memory serves, should have the heavy duty binding posts like a JBL. That can save you a few bucks!!

Looking forward to hearing how the EV sounds in your amp!

Gregg

Thanks Gregg, I was thinking that myself :)

The person I bought the EV from had an amp with other EV in it. He offered for me to try play and have a listen and I must admit, the clarity and bass response was great! Although it probably isn't a good comparison being the speaker was in a different type amp, but I think the speaker will be a great match with the BM. Nice and bright with a tight bottom end.

On another note, the amp I tried out was a Seymour Duncan, which sounded surprisingly good.

Tubes should be arrive sometime next week, and I've also picked up the les Paul from the guitar tech today as well. Should have everything together ready for testing by next weekend I'd say...

Sweeeet!!! What tubes did you end up going with? I can't remember if you said or not yet  ;D

Gregg

This thread is sure getting mighty big :)

Ive got my eyes on some NOS RCAs for V1 on eBay Australia
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160782194100?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_922

V2, I'm going for JAn Phillips

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160782194100?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_922

V3, I'm going For the sovteks
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160782194100?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_922

Also getting the TAD 7025 or the clator. I think it's clear that I'm taking onboard with the advice on this forum :)

Nice selection! I have always been wary of buying tubes off of ebay. partly because they are so many forgeries floating around, and partly because alot of them are untested. the prices aren't too bad on em, which is good, since you won't be out much money, but also makes me a lil wary of em, since usually those run between $50-$80 US, so they may or may not be the real deal, but like i said it's only about $30 so at least you aren't out much.

One suggestion for you, if you haven't bought them already, is that i would just buy a matched pair of the RCA's and run them both in V1 & V2 for now. I was playing through the JC-90 speaker yesterday and found that the JAN 5751, while sounding goo thtough the 1265's by taming the mids a bit, didn't sound nearly as good through the more neutral speaker, just FYI

Gregg

Okay, I missed out on the NOS RCA's, so instead I've bought 2 Tung Sol for V1 & V2, with a Sovtek for V3.

Bought the TAD's for the Clator also..... should all be here mid next week. By then, I'll have the EV in and all ready to be tested with the tubes.

Really hoping the speaker and tubes will brighten her up, and help the OD.

Very cool!! Sounds like it is all coming together! I'm getting anxious for my speakers to get built and shipped out. I'm really hoping i made the right choice after reading about and listening to clips of Weber's NeoMag 12. It is supposed to sound even closer to the JBL than the Cali AND you can get with a paper dome and a cloth surround so it won't be so ice picky and will have tighter and fuller low end. I guess i could just order a set of those later if i'm really curious, since that aren't terribly expensive.

I feel like i', thread jaclking  :-[

What did you end up getting for power tubes?

Gregg

How mug longer till you get your speakers?

I just got the EV in a moment ago and its very true that the speaker does not color your sound. At this stage, there isn't too much of a difference but oddly the fizzyness in the OD isn't so apparent. It has brightened the amp a tad but it hasn't been too much of a dramatic change. The tubes come in next week so I'll get them in and see how it goes.

I only ended up getting preamp tubes because I don't know how to bias the power tubes. Will probably change them when I get the amp serviced.

I gave the les Paul a good playing today trough the amp an it does seem to like it more than the strat.

Yeah, it took a lil while for the fizziness to go away on mine, it will, have faith  ;)

Not sure when my speakers are gonna get here. I called Weber yesterday hoping that they hadn't started building them yet, so i could ask their tech if maybe the Neo 12 might be a better choice. I left a message, but they never called back. I prolly shoulda emailed, em, i guess. I'm hopin they'll be here by next weekend, since i took vacation that weekend ;)

Good to hear that the Les Paul sounds better and that the EV sounds as prescribed. Where do you have the OD trim set? I know when mine was newer, i had to keep th trim lower or it would be fizzy.

Gregg

Okay guys, a status update...

So here we are, with a 50w BM with the following changes since it been shipped;

- EVM12L speaker
- Tung sol in V1 & V2
- Sovtek in v3

Wile changing the tubes, I did notice that in V1, there was a JJ whilst in V2 & V3 there were TADs there.

Once all in.... All I can say is wow! The cleans have brightened up a huge amount but still maintaining a certain warmth. The OD is no longer fizzy and just sounds smooth. While if I winds up the gain, it still gets fizzy, but it takes much more before it does now, where as previously it just sounded fizzy even on low gain settings.

Since changing the speakers and tubes, I know I'll need more time to tweak to get it perfect, but now I feel that I'm well on the way now. Only thing is, there isn't much much sustain to the OD as the OTS as ive seen on youtube clips, but then again I'm playing through the strat and there wasnt much sustain before either. Perhaps further tweaking will get me there.

All in all, these changes have really brought the amp to what I expected if not more.....

Oh and another observation, the input knob on the clator seems to have more of an effect on tone now. Winding it back seems to brighten up the amp now which is great. Also, the PAB switch previously seemed to muddy things up, but now it sounds nice and crisp but now just fattening the tone up a little.

Now....to find the time to tweak it....

Are you using the EVM12L in a thiele type cab?

Just through a ceriatone can that I made up

That's an interesting observation :)

Having played the speaker a little more, I actually found it to be much nicer than the ET65. Much more note definition and it seems to tighten up the bass on the BM which I found muddy with the ET65. To me it seems to bring out the amps true sound without adding any additional coloring. Initally it didnt seem to change the tone too much, but after tweaking the amp some, i found that the tone controls seem to have a greater effect, opening the amps tonal range a little more. Shortly afterward, in addition to the tube change, it completely changed the amp, and to me seemed like a blanket had been lifted off of it. I too have heard that some find it too harsh, where as I actually find that it still maintains the warmth (naturally a dark amp) on the cleans, but brightening it up a little. Different strokes for different folks I guess!

If your leaddress is not OK the EVM12L can be revealing; very harsh tones.
If your lead dress is ok it should sound good. Lots of highs and in your face sound is how some people describe it. ;D

There was some mention in another thread to adjust the internal HRM trimmers to get the most out of the OD, so i spent some time doing just that during this afternoon. Glad to report that it has certainly made a difference on the OD on the BM. No longer does it sound harsh and lifeless. Now it blooms the notes much more and has almost that OTS OD character but as some people have describe it, it has a marshall flavor to it, but can certainly be used or the blues. It's very good in it's own right where as previously it wasn't very boos at all. I'm thinking that, in addition to an EQ in the loop might even get me closer to OTS territory.

Okay, another update... Trying to keep my tone chasing progress in this single thread as I started wondering into other people's threads

In addition to the change of tubes, speakers as previously mentioned, know now done the following;

- adjusted the internal HRM trim pots
- placed a mxr 6 band EQ in the FX loop
- tested the LNFB switch which I actually forgot about!

Of all of the above, I must say that the HRM tonestack adjustment was the most affective. The change was rather big as I tested it with the PAB and OD channel on from time to time to listen for the changes. The EQ in the loop and in the front obviously changed the amps tone, but I found myself preferring the OD channel without it. Just sounded more "fat" as opposed to the EQ, it sounded either thin or too muddy because of the boost in mids. Just didn't sound natural to me, and it also messed around with them amazing cleans on the BM.

Played with the LNFB switch a little today, but the change was very subtle. Not sure if i need to retweak everything again to get the most out of it, but I might have more time this weekend to do so. As mentioned in another thread, I've found that tweaking this amp requires very small adjustments and some controls are very subtle. A good example is the presence and pull bright switch on the volume control. Winding the presence from nil to max doesn't immediately sound different on the clean, but you notice a certain brightness on the OD which can make it sound harsh.....

Not quite sure where to go from here in search of those dumble OD tones...

Sounds like you are on the right track!!
Here's a couple of things to consider. Most of the professionally recorded tracks we hear have gone thru post processing by the time we hear them. Compressors, EQ, etc. Even some of the member clips will be recorded with a compressor in front of the amp and quite a few have very short delay to fatten the sound up a bit. i have read that Ford, Carlton, and others use some type of OD pedal in front of the amp, so the sound we hear isn't fully Dumble.

As far as the BM, it has less mids than the rest of the OTS series. The HRM helps to make up for this, and you can boost the miss quite a bit with it, especially if you run it with the PAB as it was designed. The OD section is very different, though, different values and what not, no snubbers on V2, etc. Also the PI is different from the rest which makes it sounds differently from the rest as well.

One suggestion i can make is to try a 22M resistor on the PAB, it was how the BM was originally designed, and it sounds so much better with it. More signal gets into the OD section, and into the HRM stack and into the PI, really changes the OD as a whole. Since going back to the 22M resistor on the PAB, and using the HRM stack or bypassing it with a 33k resistor instead of lifting it completely from ground i hardly turn the drive up past 4 these days, and i just sings and sings, but it still sounds very bluesy, not overly crunchy or "metally" if that makes sense. It certainly makes the amp fatter and helps to tighten things up all at the same time.

Gregg

Thanks Gregg,

I had my BM modded to have a 100k pot to adjust the PAB volume, so in theory if I crank it up at about 80%, that should get enough signal and produce the same sort of result? The boost in volume I'd imagine would be quite big.

I'll be tweaking the HRM trimmers this weekend a little more and I've made note to bump the mids and turn the treble down as silly me, I did all my sound checks only on the jazz setting. Sounds a little too trebly on rock.

The tonestack bypass mod I have on the amp too, but from the sounds of it, you're partially lifting the tonestack, where as I'm completely bypassing it. I might try put in either a 250k pot or 100k pot where the existing switch is, to try get it to partially lift and get it to middle grounds.

Can you share your trimmer settings and how you decided on them? I'm really struggling with the OD channel on my Bluesmaster. Thanks!

Well, you will get more gain than the stock 68k, but not as much as lifting the tonestack completely. It's a good start, though.

If i was to put a pot on the HRM bypass, i would put a 50k pot with a 100r resistor on one leg, that way you will have the stock 100r value and be able to adjust within a 50k range. as 33k seems to work pretty well

The trimmer settings have to be set according to you ears and what you like. there is no standard setting per se


gregg

I can dig that, just hoping for some advice with a starting point. I bought by Bluesmaster used, so I'm not really sure that the trimmers were set anywhere in the ballpark of a usable tone in the first place. It doesn't sound very good right now. It's pretty harsh and constricted, with out the normal controlled feedback I'd expect from a D-style amp.

Well, set your OD trim on the rear to between 10 o clock and noon. Set the HRM tonestack to default values which would be bass barely on, and treble and mid to between 10 o clock and 11 o clock. Set your clean tonestack to taste, and be sure to use the PAB when you use the OD. This is how it is designed to be used. Adjust the drive, OD trim, and HRM stack to taste.

Gregg

I wasn't going to post this because it will probably just csuse more questions than solutions, but here it is. I didn't write it, and forget who it's from, but I pretty sure I copied and pasted it from a post over at TAG and it's was from an experienced builder. So if you have the know how it may be useful.

Hey guys,

Had the amp opened up to play with the trimmers again and noticed the mids trimpot is at 25k instead of 20k, the bass at 250k instead of 220k and the same for the treble. Is this likely to be an issue?

No issue...have fun!

Is it possible to have the footswitch for selecting between Clean & OD automatically engage the PAB when the OD is selected?

I am sure you could have a tech wire the relays up that way. The only problem is that then the PAB would be hot wired to the OD and vice versa, so the PAB couldn't be used separately. A tech could rewire the whole switching system, though. I think two rock and others have 3 and 4 button footswitches and i have heard of one that had adjustable PAB level in the footswitch as well.

 One of these days i'm gonna have a tech rewire mine and have a footswitch pedal that controls the OD, PAB, Bright Switch, Mid Boost, Deep Switch, and rock/jazz, Maybe even the HRM Bypass. London power sells the relays and little boards, it's just knowing how to wire it, and having enough power from the tranny to do it. I would prolly need a separate tranny, or most likely just build another 1 rack sized box like the c-lator, and build the system in that, and put the c-lator, relay unit, and a rack power unit in a 3 rack box and set it on top of the amp. that's gonna be pricy, though,  and a long way off.

For now as far the OD and PAB together, I usually just stomp both switches at the same time, just turn my foot 90 degrees and stomp, kinda like heel toe driving ;)


Gregg

Sweet! Glad you found a way to find the sound you were looking for. FWIW I am known to take non traditional approaches to get tones I'm after with the OTS as well. Sometimes it's fun to run the bias hot and really go for that tweed sound. I ran a set of JAN 6L6WGB's at 425 volts and 50ma via the sag switch yup, 50ma! Sounded sweet and even meaner than standard bias, but it was a one trick pony. No clean what so ever, but oh man!!! I wouldn't recommend it, though, at least with those 23 watt tubes. Could cause damage if they red plate and short. But man, what a sound!!!


Gregg

I said it wasn't loud? I don't remember that lol. It's plenty loud. Loud enough that I shook some plaster loose in my guitar room yesterday, and my house is concrete block and plaster!  I think I may have said it can be quiet using the c-lator as a global master

Hi guys,

Just an update on the amp.

Nothings been changed with the exception of some tweaking and a few emails back and forth with Nik.

Turns out the volume adjustment I had for the tone stack bypass was actually a pot for the lift to adjut how much I wanted it to actually bypass. I've since had this cranked up and the OTS OD tones are there. At the moment, having this pot and the PAB adjustment pot cranked seems to be where the OD channel sounds at its best. I've tested the bypass pot by havin it cranked to full, which completely bypasses the HRM stack and have tried adjusting the internal trim pots to check, and yep, it is completely unresponsive when engaged. And all this time I thought it was to just level the volume out!

Must say, the amp certainly had the John Mayer cleans and has a very smooth d*type OD now. Need more time to tweak it further (and I suspect I'll forever will be) but the amp no longer has me scratching my head. Very pleased with it and the mods that Nik did on it for me.

This amp is going no where...

Hey All,

Well, I thought I'd bump this thread, since I have been interested in it from the beginning.  I was in a similar situation as StratUltra, just not getting the sounds I wanted out of the amp.  As you guys can see from my posts, I tried a lot of things to switch up the sound and they worked, to varying degrees.  So here is the thing, though.  I felt the OD on the amp was flubby and boomy.  The bass was out of control. 

So, a couple weeks back.  I ask the dudes at The Amp Garage what mods I should consider for the amp, given what I was looking for.  I told them I intended to drop the amp at King Amplification near San Jose (California).  So one of the forumites drops me a message, saying he builds these amps, is in San Jose, and will open her up and do some tuning for free if I want to stop by. SCORE.

I show up with a 6 pack of good beer and a clean boost pedal with a loose solder joint to offer in trade.  Totally surprises amp dude.  He was just going to do it for the hell of it, and get to jam out some.  Well, he drops the amp out of the cab, and starts going through the HRM trims (mines a 100w Bluesmaster).  Bass is really boomy at this point.  He notes the bass trim is all the way off.  Huh, interesting.  As he's adjusting the trim though, we hear some crackle and hiss.  Thinking that there may be a loose solder joint on the trim, he pulls the board and retouches the joints.  Brings it back and holy shit guys, totally different amp.  It is now everything I want it to be.  It can Rock or it can RAWK, yah know?  Dude also tunes the PI for more bloom and harmonic content (very key, guys), and checks my bias.  Turns out, after 2 years of running her with the Master at 7 (Clator for meta-master), the TAD 6L6's were still balanced and matched.  I recommend these tubes to everyone, so I'm glad they are working well.  Anyway, that's about it, just a show of great karma from a fellow Dubmele devotee.

Very cool! Glad you got it running the way you like! After 2 weeks or so of having mine out of the cab and tweaking the trimmers i have the HRM just the way i like it. I can now say that i am fully satisfied with my BM, so much so that i am not even going to bother changing the speakers out. Between changing the output tubes to the tung sol 6L6GC-STR's, rediscovering the full lift PAB, and tweaking the HRM, i can now get those early jimmy page (think BBC Sessions, Zep 1&2) and early clapton (bluesbreakers, yardbirds) that i so dearly love with the HRM side. It really brings out the early overdriven Marshall sound. I am very, very pleased  ;D

Did you build it or buy it pre-made?  There could be a problem with the wiring or you could have some loose soldering joints.  On mine, they all work well, save for the mid being pretty subtle. 

I agree. Can't hurt to check those solder joints if the trimmers don't seem to be working.

Gentlemen,

I ordered the 100W Bluesmaster with a few mods. Won't get it for a few more weeks.

I REALLY appreciate your posts and the time you spend informing people like me of your experiences.

I'm sure we will be talking soon. Now I have to be patient.

thanks,
Mike

Congrats on the purchase Mike and welcome to the forum!

Do tell us more about the mods!

You'll love the amp!

I thought John Mayer didn't use the OD channel on his Dumbley amps at all, and used a Klon for OD. Isn't the 2-rocks single channel?
http://www.two-rock.com/products/limited-edition-a-discontinued/john-mayer-signature.html (http://www.two-rock.com/products/limited-edition-a-discontinued/john-mayer-signature.html)

For my BM50, preamp vol at 2.5-3, master vol at 6-8 does it for JM cleans - low bass and high treble and presence
input a Honeybee or Klon klone for the OD, although you can get nice JM-style OD from the BM, drive=2, level=5

Just received the HRM BM 100 watt. Ceriatone built.

Mods: Treble bleed, 3-way mid-boost, 1/2 power switch, tomestack bypass.

Speaker cabs: assortment of 2x12, 1x15, 4x10 - all Weber speakers (alnicos and ceramics)

Axes: Strat (linday fralin pups) and Les Paul (seymour duncan pups)

Note: Only 8 hours of break in so far, I'm sure things will change.

Clean channel: It did not take long to dial in a great sound for the strat and LP. Amazing - the clarity and string separation, never played through anything like this. This is what I bought this amp for. I assume it will just get better after break-in. Seems to want to be bassy, but with the right settings it is controllable. Also found that it sounds best with the 2x12 - 4x10 configuration. The 1x15 cab may be too deep for this amp.

Pedals (Thru Clean channel): I use Fulltone boost pedals (FD-II, OCD and Plimsoul). The OCD (18v) sounds fantastic through it with the strat. The Plimsoul works better with the LP. With my other tube amps, I always left the FD-II engaged with no gain, just as a nice boost to add some sparkle that this pedal is great for. This is not needed with the BM amp, in fact it seemed to get in the way of the great sound. The PAB switch is a nice boost for solos on the clean channel. The Fulltone mini-deja vibe sounds great through this amp.This amp takes pedals very well on the clean channel.

OD channel: If I had any hair on my head, they would be gone by now. This is going to take some time, but I am patient. Sounds fizzy and it appears to need to be extremely loud before the you hit the sweet spot.Hoping that the break in will help this and lots of setting experiments. I'm not keen on popping it open to mess with the interal trimmers, but I will if I have to.

Hey Mike,

Funny that, I think I may have finally sorted my OD channel and the advice has always been on the board but finally managed to get around to it today.

The trick is to change the V1 to a RCA short grey plate. Simple as that...

I order a pair and tried running them both into V1 and V2, but prefer the tung sol RI in V2. The RCA in V1 made a heck of a difference on the OD channel for me, and the cleans seemed a little more 3D if that makes sense. Also, I noticed that the OD now doesn't need to be high volume to hit that sweet spot now.

Hope that helps and all I can say is this amp is a keeper for sure. It's been hard work through trial and error but it's certainly been worth it.

Funny how different people have different approaches tube wise to get the results they want. For me, It's a Telefunken Ribbed Plate in V1 and a JAN GE 5751 in V2. A close 2nd is GE Long Gray Plates from the late 50's/early 60's. Glad you got the sound you were after!

Gregg

I was after a dumble type OD which the RCAs did deliver. It's amazing how much these amps change with different tubes rolls

Indeed it is. I was going for the more raw, heavy, thick Fender/Early Marshall sound, and the Telefunken/JAN GE 5751 combo along with the Tung Sol 6L6GC-STR nails it, especially with the Weber Alnico 1265/Weber Neo 12 speaker combo. The GE Long Plate tubes and the TAD 6L6WGC-STR bring out the more Dumbly sound especially when i run the two Weber Alnico 1265's. Incredible how versatile the Bluesmaster is.

I'm actually so pleased with the results that I've ordered another pair of RCAs lol

Guys, thanks for the great advice. The amp is burning in superbly. The OD is very very nice now that I've played thru it long enough to hear the dramatic improvement.

The RCA tubes... 12ax7 grey short plate... is the 12ax7a effectively the same? Seems to be more of those available.

thanks,
Mike

Latest test results (and I am having a blast doing this, this amp is fantastic):

V1 and V2: TD 12AX7 that Nik supplied. Since I haven't ordered any tubes yet, I thought I would poach my small inventory and see what happens.

- Found a Mullard 12AT7 laying around from an old Earth B2000 I still use, tube must be ~30 yrs old cuz I bought the amp in '79 and I knew the original owner who said he never changed the tubes. Put it in V1. The OD was smoother than the TD but the dynamics were lost so back into the B2000 you go.

- Tried a JJ 12AX7A pulled from another amp. Put it in V1. OD was harsh and brash. No thanks.

- Found a Sovtek 5751. Tried it in V1. The OD was much nicer than the TD. Smoother and produced nice OD at lower volume. However, I did not like what it did to the clean channel. Not as dynamic as the TD. So.... I put the TD back into V1 and put the 5751 into V2. Winner. The 5751 in V2 is a much better OD, very very nice to my ears and doesnt need to be as loud.

So... now I'm thinking I want a better quality 5751 (US Jan Phillips?) for V2 and will also get a better quality 12AX7 (RCA gray? or Telefunken?) for V1.

Please allow me to gush over this amp. I never do this, but I feel compelled and obligated to. This amp is FANTASTIC. Been playign a long time and never owned anything close to this great. And I'm having a blast trying all the different configurations. This is a very dynamic and sensitive beast. Also so very responsive to playing (pick attack) and guitar volume/tone control. Amazing. Took it to practice last Saturday... they couldn't believe how great it sounded. Really is an amazing amplifier and I barely know it yet.

Ok... pulled a couple old Mullard 12AX7s from the Earth B2000 Super Bass. Couldn't help myself.

V1 - Mullard 12AX7
V2 - Sovtek 5751
V3 - Mullard 12AX7

This is nice. I will quit obsessing now and let this thing keep breaking in and just enjoy playing thru it for a while.

Glad it's working out for you! Much quicker than it did for me. Yeah, the OD does get much better once broken in some

Further update on this journey of mine with the BM,

So I've changed the V1 to a RCA grey plate, and have now change the V2 to a Jan Philips 5751, leaving the sovtek 12ax7lps in V3. Stock JJ in place of the 6L6s.

This has done it, perfect cleans with smooth smooth Dumble type OD. Couldn't be more happier! Amazing how responsive this amp is to tube rolls. It's completely changed the character of the OD, while I can still get those prestine cleans. A very very happy BM here! This amp is everything I wanted it to be! I think all my tweaking is done for a while and I think I'll just sit back and play instead of tweaking the amp.

For a while, I was so displeased with the OD that I bought a zendrive 2 to get those dumble tone, but I don't see a need for it anymore as the amp does it so much better and is more dynamic. It will probably come off my board now and be up for sale. Best thing is that the OD doesn't need to be turned up very high to hit the sweet spot anymore

It's amazing how we all have our unique approaches to get our sounds out of this amp, and even more amazing that we are all able to coax such different sounds from it. It really shows how versatile the BM really is, in my opinion.

Gentleman, it’s great to see that you are all enjoy tweaking and experimenting with your amps. I’m sure it is great fun, but on the end of the day we all need great amps to make music which is most important.
Any chance to hear your sound clips, your playing? Especially before and after tweaking.
Perfectionism is great but some times tweaking becomes an addiction and playing, practicing suffers badly.
 ;) ;)

I know what you mean ;) i need to borrow some recording equipment. I keep saying that but I never seem to. It's similar to my need for diet and exercise...

[/quote]

You are totally right Pick -  I have no excuses like Gregg, I have a music room set with a Zoom MRS (multi recorder), I have teh backing tracks loaded, & I can make a recoding with my couple mikes,

Part of it is laziness of course. The other part is that this forum is intimidating: it's got stellar players (in that "dumblish" jazzy style) & my bag is straight blues.

I will try to have a take at it, & post it real soon - anyways

I just returned home, had to try that RCA short gray plate in V1. It rules , really, in a fenderish kind of way.   
[/quote]

This makes sense, as the RCA shorts were used in earlier Fenders and the Bluesmaster is Blackface derived. 

As to clips, YES.  Let me get some practice done and I'll put up a couple of them, using some clean, low gain, and high gain.  You'll get to hear the Java Boost in action.  I also have a WET stereo reverb arriving today.  YOU GUYS NEED TO CHECK THIS PEDAL OUT. 

St.Ephen

I hear ya, but it doesn't take much time to change tubes. It turns out I played alot of songs for each tube swap (not just noodling) to hear each setup with a variety of songs. So I end up practicing more during all of this and it is fun getting to learn this amp.

Regarding recording, now that is where I would get obsessive and probably keep re-recording so that I don't feel embarrassed. But I will put some clips up soon.

That's kinda how i feel too. I can do some jazzy stuff, but not like most of the guys on here.

I just gigged two nights in a row... of course, lifting the amps and PA stuff, etc. With a Les Paul strapped to my neck for three hours each night.

I've never had such back pain as now. Takes a half hour to get out of bed. lower back spasms, WOW... killer. The car is still loaded with all my stuff. Can't even think of lifting it again.

I need to get in better shape and eat better. Enough is enough. I understand that at 50 things change, but this is due to lack of exercise and poor diet. I used to be in way better shape and never had this issue. I think I need a support group.

Feel for ya! Not much fun when the back lets you down so hope that clears up soon for you.

After all this talk about RCA tubes in V1 I finally managed to score an old 12AX7a - looking forward to trying it in my Bluesmaster - I've got a nos Brimar in there at the minute - wonder would the Brimar be nicer than Tungsol in V2?

Might do some before/after clips but I can't really record at volume at home...we'll see ;)

So I'm sitting here playin the Les Paul thru the BM 100 with the OD and trying to figure out why i get the boom-boom just with the LP and in the neck pickup position. No matter what cab of speakers I used (4x10, 2x12, 1x15). Not really wanting to go in and adjust the internal bass trimmer and.. i guess one of those boom-booms dislodged a memory bit in my brain and i thought... wait... just lower the low E strng side of the neck pick-up. Get it farther away from the low E string. And. Winner. Boom-Boom all gone. Almost made me forget about my sore back.

Lesson learned. Adjust pickup hieghts when you get a new amp before messin with the amp internals. Duh. It's the simple things in life that make me smile.

Got the RCA 12ax7 grey short plate, put it in V1... Yes, the cleans are amazing. This is staying here. The OD is very nice and smooth. The Mullard NOS 12ax7 is just as nice too in V1 for OD, but the clean belongs to the RCA.

Glad it's worked out for everyone that's tried the RCA short gray plate.

Exactly as homes mentioned, previously the BM only liked humbuckers, but now it's lovin the single coils on the cleans and OD. Couldn't believe how well it responded with the RCA!

I'm stocking up on RCAs and Jan Philips 5751 at the moment

Really stoked that everyone is enjoying the RCA grey shorts in V1.  And I do want to clarify, the only reason I tried one in the first place (and recommended the same to you) is because Mike at KCANOSTUBES suggested it.  Like I said, guy knows his stuff and deserves credit for being a badass.

Stephen

OK, guys, I have to update y'all on the tube selection after I started running the WET Stereo reverb in the loop.  You guys NEED to hear this pedal, BTW.  Simply the most impressive, beautiful verb I've ever heard.  I'll do some vids, but my playing has suffered a bit recently, and I don't have any cool recording gear.  Suffice to say that the pedal is a 3-knob piece of awesome with stereo inputs AND expression jacks for depth and mix.  And with the Pedal Customizer software that Brian invented (I think?), you can add shimmer to the verb, or modulation, or even just change the pedal into his Chroma Chorus.  It sounds like a lot of digitizing and fluff, but it's not and you guys would kick yourselves for not checking it out.

Now, back from the hijack.

I put 2 "new" NOS RCA grey shorts in V1 and V2 recently.  Had to replace the old RCA.  Now, I liked this setup--originally I had an RCA in V1 and a Tung Sol RI in V2.  This new combo sounded good on both cleans and OD, but after I plugged in the Wet, the pedal just did not get along with the OD.  It was fizzy.  I HATE fizzy.  So I tried the JAN Phillips 5751 I had laying around, and I liked it (and I KNOW some of you love this in V2), but it wasn't rich enough in harmonics.  So I went back to my original setup (V3 is Sovtek LPS and power tubes are TAD 6L6-GCs, also 100w), and I have to say guys, this is THE setup.  Everyone should give it a go.

St.Ephen

All credit to Stephen for sharing the advice on the RCA and thanks man, could not be happier!

I have the WET v2 and it's a great pedal. Digital ot not, it has an amazing quality to it and is on my board right now. It won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

I might try the RCA in v2 again .....

Yes, the WET reverb in the effects loop is great.

V1: RCA short grey
V2: TungSol RI
V3: Sovtek LPS

This is it. Keeping this for a while.

Also realized that my 2x12 cabinet was fully closed in back. Took out one of the panels to open the back. Much better. This amp made ma re-adjust the guitar pickups, the speaker cabs, even my pick attack, and guitare volume control.... but all for the good.

The cleans on the strat are fantastic and can push it to a nice crunch thru the clean channel. The OD with the les paul is also just the way i want it now.
 
I might open it up and lower the bass internal OD trim sometime, but not right now. Gonna play thru it alot now and enjoy learniing it in our complete band context.

THANKS for all your help. Could not be happier with this.

Glad everyone is finding their tone!!!

I've always owned tube amps, but the only thing I do to them is swap tubes and speakers (for combo amps).

If i want to "drop" the chassis on the BM in order to adjust the internal trims.... realizing the chassis with the transformers is very heavy and un-balanced...

my question is... how exactly do i do it without breakign anything?

i normally gently lay mine face down on a soft pillow, take the tubes out, and back the screws out leaving one in. then i use one hand to steady and brace the chassis and back out the remaining screw then slowly let the swing down, then lift it out. easy peasy!

Gregg

Thanks!! I'll do that.

...once the chassis is out...if i want to run the amp with the chassis out....  after putting the tubes back in...

is it ok to rest the chassis on the transformers and run it that way so I can make internal trim adjustments and check the sound without having to put the chassis back in the cab?

(sorry if these are dumb questions).

Yes you can. I usually put a mouser catalog at each end of the chassis. This gives plenty of clearance of the tubes and trannys off the work surface. Weber also makes a workbench amp cradle for this purpose. It's pricy, so I stick to my mouser catalogs :)

Gregg

Thank you, my freind.

Gigs, another way to drop the chassis is stack books under the trannies.  I've also seen guys have pieces of 4x4 cut to the right length to act as support under the trannies.

Yes, good idea. Thanks!

First off, let me say that this is an amazing thread on an amazing forum. The community here is so helpful, it's incredible!

As stated much earlier in this thread, finding audio clips for the BM is difficult as there are few out there. I'm in the situation that you guys were in before you ordered this amp: thinking maybe the bluesmaster is what I'm after (looking for John Mayer/SRV incredible cleans and slight breakup when pushed) but not sure and needing to ask questions. It seems so many of my questions have been answered already with this thread as it seems that stratultra and many of the contributors to this thread are after the same tones as I am.

All of this being said, is there a way that some of you could record your killer strat clean sounds and slight boosted clean breakup a la that JM/SRV sound we all love? I'm positive you will make way more people than just I happy with audio clips along these lines.

Thanks for all of the info, and keep up the tone quest!

Dave

Hi Dave and welcome to the forum!

I've actually got another amp now so i cant provide the clips, but the BM was an excellent amp for those tones your searching for.

In my experience with the BM, if boosted cleans (PAB on clean channel) and slight break up (pushed input gain on clean or light OD in OD channel) is what your after, the BM excells in this with a strat. Perhaps some other BM owners can help provide a clip, but there mcinku's clips in youtube is a very good representation of what it sounds like with single coils.

Keep in mind that the BM responds VERY well with tube changes as described in this thread and speaker choice is also key. If i had to do it again, I would of selected a celestion gold instead of an EV. EV works well with my amp now and non HRM d clones opposed to celestion golds and g1365s.

All the best and good luck! Yell out if you have any questions as the folks here are super helpful!

Why did you let go of the BM and what is your new amp?

I bought a two rock topaz out of curiosity more than anything. Gone to the dark side!

Not taking anything away from the BM, but the TR was more what I was after ....

Ok, So I have owned the HRM BM 100W for almost a year now. Played many gigs with it (indoor and outdoor). I use two cabs with it (2x12 with Webers) and (4x10 with Webers). This amp is really an amazing creature. I play in a cover band (70s rock and blues) and I use a strat and a les paul for gigs.

The strat with the clean amp settings is really a fantastic sound (with PAB on). Roll the guitar volume down for some real nice chime, the string clarity is amazing with this amp. Push the guitar volume a little higher for some growl. Also use fulltone OCD and FDII pedals with the streat thru the clean amp and get some real nice tones as well. Could not be happier. Use a WET reverb pedal as well in the effects loop.

The les paul with the OD channel engaged has taken much more time to dial in (after breaking in the amp). But is well worth the effort. Tube swaps were needed to get where I wanted to be. The bloom and the overdive dynamics are so very very nice and controllable. Again, guitar volume control plays a role here. The LP when you roll down the volume is a great rythm sound, full and clear with great string separation. Crank the guitar to 9-10 and the fun really starts for solos. Also I engage the PAB for solos, always. A few songs I play the LP thru the clean channel and use the fulltone OCD or Plimsoul for some different overdrive sounds. This takes good pedals very well in the clean channel and can find some wonderful sustain and bloom thru it as well.

Indoors I set it to 50W, outdoors always 100W.

This is truly a keeper amplifier. With the right tubes, speakers and guitars its amazing and I get alot of compliments on the tones. Been wondering if I should put Mercury Mag transformers in this, but that's much farther down the road.

Great to hear that the BM has worked well for you! Keep rockin :)