Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 23, 2024, 03:07:51 PM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Ceriatone Forums are up and running!!!
 
Guests please register
Note: If you want to help you can donate to keep the forums alive.



Do you want to advertise on this forum ? Send me a private message.



Amplified Parts
+  Ceriatone Forum
|-+  Ceriatone
| |-+  Overtone
| | |-+  HRM Bluesmaster setup advice
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 11 Go Down Print
Author Topic: HRM Bluesmaster setup advice  (Read 131445 times)
plasticvonaband
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 747


Pickin and Grinnin since 1989


View Profile WWW
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2012, 07:10:30 PM »

I agree with the idea of doing some tube rolling. The first preamp tubes i had in mine were from thetubestore.com's "preferred series". they were 7025's, which, of course are low noise 12AX7's. I have a snekay suspicion that these are relabled TAD's and are therefore either relabled Shuguang 12AX7-B or Sovteks, most likely the Shugaungs, since their internal structure is identical. They sound very nice and clear, but were a bit too sterile for my taste. I put one in my C-Lator in place of the stock JJ and it made a world of difference. It is much quieter, brighter, and has even more of that "3D"-ish sound that the c-lator is touted to bring. As far as V1 and V2 go, basically, experimentation is the way to go.

My two faves in V1 depend on which speakers i am using. With the Deltas, and prolly with the California and Michigan when i get em i love GE Long Plates from the late 50's and Early 60's. very nice and warm and detailed, and well balanced, ans a nice amount of drive when the clean channel is pushed. With the 1265's a like the Telefunken Ribbed plates. Also very nice and warm and balance, but with extended high frequencies to make up for the exterme warmth of the 1265's.

In V2 i also like the GE Long plates or the Telefunkens, depending on the speakers. When i was running the JAN Phillips 6L6WGB's in the power section, which sound awesome, but don't last long in the OTS Smiley, i like the GE Long plates in V1 regardless of speaker choice, and a JAN GE 5751 in V2. This combo yielded the sweetest sound; full deep tight bass, nice singing but not overbearing mids, and enough highs to be present with the 1265's. Sadly, again the 6L6WGB;s just can't take the voltage of the OTS, more the Screen Voltage than the Plate Voltage, oddly enough. I have considered adding VVR to the power section of the BM just so i can run em, but that would be crazy, right??  Grin

In the power section i tried the aforementioned 6L6WGB's, some older Sovtek 6L6/5881's (which are neither 6L6's or 5881's), that i have a stash of from when i was running my Sovtek head most of the time, and TAD 6L6WGC's. So far i'm diggin the TAD's. Again, TAD's are relabled Shuguangs, but they sound great, have not drifted a bit, and are very affordable! I just ordered a set of Tungsol "Reissue" 6L6GC's, just to see what they are all about.

Like Stephen i tend to buy all my tubes from Mike@ kcanostubes.com. He is a great guy, and tests his tubes well, and can even give you advice on what you may like based on your tastes and setup. I've only had one tube go bad from him, but in fairness it was an ANOS (used) tube from the 1950's, and it had been in my Ampeg Jet, which is a great amp to find if your tubes are microphonic, have a tendency to be microphonic, or to make your tubes microphonic  Grin it's so bad i call it the tube eater, and i think that it contributed greatly to that tube's demise, so you can buy from Mike without worrying too much  Grin


Gregg
Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
rane008
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 122


View Profile
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2012, 08:08:45 PM »

+1 on the TADs.  I actually put a TAD 7025 in the Clator too!  Does in fact sound good.  I prefer the Tung-sols for cost effective choices for the V2.  The TADs I have in the power section have been there for almost 2 years, daily playing, running pretty hot.  Really good choice.
Logged
SoundPerf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 392



View Profile
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2012, 11:38:41 PM »

Boy, you guys have been busy typing. Wink Also, thanks for the comments on my clips.

To give some specifics on the setup at the time of the clip I posted. I plugged directly into the amp. It was done before I had the C-lator and I was using a Kleinulator. It has a delay in the loop and a reverb pedal. But no post processing at all. At that time I didn't have any NOS tubes and it was just Tung Sol 12AX7's in the preamp and TAD 6L6 wgc str's. I find these tubes to be quite nice and would recommend them as a great cost effective meat & potatoes tube set. I have since put a RCA Grey Short Plate in V1 and that really made things nice. The clip is using a combination of single coils and humbuckers (PRS 513) and yes, the "creamier" the O/D the "humbuckier". That's not a word, but it is now. Smiley I would suggest playing with some humbuckers sooner than later. Not so much that great sounds can't be achieved with single coils, in fact there's certain tones that can only be gotten with single coils. It's just that you will get a taste of just how sensitive the front end is to different signal levels and how this drives the amp.

As far as the amp getting smoother after 25 hrs, yes it has, but it has always been a subtle thing at most. One thing that I have always said is "less is more" with these amps. But another thing I had to break myself of, was thinking that using other O/D pedals or whatever would somehow be sacrilege or something. Basically, I'm not beyond wanting some over the top distortion now and then, which the HRM by itself is not exactly going to get without getting into the fizzy area. (although, I have gotten it to be damn close to over the top without fizzy's at higher volumes) My setup now consists of a Compressor > Xotic BB preamp for a clean boost or a bit beyond that > modded tube screamer > Univibe > Amp. I use the gain/drive pedals to cascade along with the amp O/D to get every level of O/D I want.

Another thing that helped me was when I stopped trying to get it to sound like clips I heard and just let it sound like the the amp it is. There are so many variables that play a role in duplicating certain sounds that it can be overwhelming. Once I did this I all of sudden realized it was sounding a lot closer to that Dumbly sound than I had thought before.

I agree with the others that if you're using all JJ's that it could be some of the problem. I have always felt the JJ's were a bit too gainy for this amp. When I first built the amp and didn't want to waste brand new tubes in case I blew it up, I put some older Mesa Boogie tubes I had from a Rectifier, which I assumed were higher gain Chinese preamp and power tubes. It was impossible to get it to not sound harsh. Now I will admit it was brand new, but as soon as I felt it was safe, I put the tube I use now and it immediately was on the right road. 

Stick with it, and try some different guitars if you can, just to get more of a feel for the subtle differences things can make.

P.S.
oh, and on the EVM12L or S. I got to play through an EVM12S a while back and I must say that is was a really nice sound and I see why so many like them. They really can handle anything these amps can throw at them and they also compress (or something) in a very musical way. It wasn't enough to make me run out and have to have one right that minute, but someday I probably would like to have a cab with one or two.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 11:44:16 PM by SoundPerf » Logged

Chris

Ceriatone HRM 50
w/self built Dumblelator
Avatar 2X12 w/WGS ET-65 & Veteran 30
TC Electronic 2290
2001 PRS McCarty
2010 PRS 513 Swamp Ash
Tacoma JK50C
Seagull S12+
rane008
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 122


View Profile
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2012, 11:47:34 PM »

+1 on the use of drive pedals.  John Mayer, for instance, rarely uses the OD channel on his Two Rocks or Dumbles.  Often, it's a modded TS-808 (or -9, whatever) that he uses with a pushed clean and PAB engaged.  I have found that this amp + a good rangemaster clone (Keeley Java Boost, Analogman Beano, D*A*M Red Rooster) is about all you need for a multitude of tones.  I also have a germanium fuzz in the chain in case I need it... and a DS-1.  I love the DS-1.

Logged
plasticvonaband
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 747


Pickin and Grinnin since 1989


View Profile WWW
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2012, 03:41:09 AM »

+1 on the use of drive pedals.  John Mayer, for instance, rarely uses the OD channel on his Two Rocks or Dumbles.  Often, it's a modded TS-808 (or -9, whatever) that he uses with a pushed clean and PAB engaged.  I have found that this amp + a good rangemaster clone (Keeley Java Boost, Analogman Beano, D*A*M Red Rooster) is about all you need for a multitude of tones.  I also have a germanium fuzz in the chain in case I need it... and a DS-1.  I love the DS-1.



I'm glad i'm not the only one who drives the clean channel and boosts it on the BM. To me, the OD channel is like an added bonus, but i really like using a clean boost on the clean channel driven hard. quite a sound!
Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
StratUltra
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 98


View Profile
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2012, 04:46:13 AM »

Thnaks for the advice guys, makes me think how great of a bunch we have on this forum!

I've got my eyes on some tubes which are RCA Long grey/black plate 12ax7 for V1 and SOVTEK 12AX7LPS
 For V3. I might go for the Tung sol for V2.

Stephen, thanks mate and really appreciate it. I might see if I can contact the seller and see if he will ship the speaker for me. If I can possibly bother you to inspect them it would be awesome!

With these tubes and speaker changes, hopefully that will get me in the right ball park on the OD. Keen to get the 59ri back to give it a good tweak
Logged
StratUltra
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 98


View Profile
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2012, 03:45:04 AM »

Just managed to source a EVM12L thats been reconed.

Looking forward to picking up the speaker up this weekend!

The Tubes are soon to be purchased.
Logged
plasticvonaband
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 747


Pickin and Grinnin since 1989


View Profile WWW
« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2012, 04:31:42 AM »

Sweet!!! Let us know how it goes!!
Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
SoundPerf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 392



View Profile
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2012, 10:27:13 PM »

Just managed to source a EVM12L thats been reconed.

Looking forward to picking up the speaker up this weekend!

The Tubes are soon to be purchased.

Ahh, that sounds like a good direction to head. Keep us updated.
Logged

Chris

Ceriatone HRM 50
w/self built Dumblelator
Avatar 2X12 w/WGS ET-65 & Veteran 30
TC Electronic 2290
2001 PRS McCarty
2010 PRS 513 Swamp Ash
Tacoma JK50C
Seagull S12+
plasticvonaband
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 747


Pickin and Grinnin since 1989


View Profile WWW
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2012, 08:18:31 AM »

Well, it changes the character of the OD, but I wouldn't necessarily say it makes it sound more or less like a typical d-style amp. It makes it sound more "open" if you will, less compressed, and more like an overdriven fender than an overdriven marshall. It's an easy one wire mod to see if you like it or not. There is quite a volume jump if you simply unground the stack, so be prepared for that. With the HRM engaged I usually keep the master on the OD side at 5/10 with the HRM ungrounded I keep it at about 3/10 to have the same volume level. This means that you are sitting on the bright cap of the OD master, so it can be a lil bright, but you can clip the bright cap for the test and resolved it later, or put it on a push pull like the standard HRM has, or put a 20k-68k resistor on the HRM ground instead of just ungrounding it, so there will be less of a volume jump.

Gregg
Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
plasticvonaband
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 747


Pickin and Grinnin since 1989


View Profile WWW
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2012, 08:53:09 AM »

Hmm, did you have Nik install a half power switch on yours? On a 100w the half power works really nicely, as it drops two of the tubes out instead of being pentode/triode. If not you can pull two of the tubes, either the inside two or outside two, I can't remember which, this can take some of the loud out.

Also, do you switch your PAB all the time when you used the OD? If not you are going through both tonestacks and can make the HRM trimmers seem like they are less effective.

As far as the conversion goes, I'm not sure how simple it is, because the OD section and PI of the BM is a lil different, so bear that in mind. Just food for thought.

Gregg
Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
plasticvonaband
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 747


Pickin and Grinnin since 1989


View Profile WWW
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2012, 09:43:32 AM »

Indeed, the BM has a lot of bass response, but one thing to remember is that the tonestack is very much classic fender, and Leo designed his amps for his guitars, which had less bass output than Gibson's and others, so his amps have more low end. Using the deep switch can help, because it tightens the bass response up, and makes the amp less boomy.  You can also switch out the slope resistor to a higher value (68k seems to work well) and switch the bass pot out to a 250k to change the bass response.

Gregg
Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
plasticvonaband
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 747


Pickin and Grinnin since 1989


View Profile WWW
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2012, 09:53:38 AM »

Cool. Just out of curiosity, what kind of speakers are you running with your BM?

Gregg
Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
StratUltra
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 98


View Profile
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2012, 11:20:26 AM »

To be honest I had a few thoughts that I should of went for the classic OTS non HRM instead of the BM when I first got the amp. I've been looking for that syrupy type OD that's associated to dumbles, but so far it's been closer to a fender hybrid with marshal type drive. It's not that it's bad and is actually good, but it's just different to what I expected.

Its a complex amp and I'm still learning it, so it maybe just a combination of me learning the amp and not having the right speaker and tube combination, not allowing the amp to sound it best. The advice I've received from this forum has been encouraging, and the general consensus has been the BM will get me that well sort after dumble OD.

I'm going to try different tubes and a EVM12L to see if that changes things, but I'd been keen to see if you do take on the HRM conversion and would follow that very closely......
Logged
StratUltra
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 98


View Profile
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2012, 11:25:22 AM »

On a side note, I'm getting awfully close to getting the right tones on the OD channel, and I think the speaker change with the tube rolls will get me even closer. Not having much joy with the PAB engaged with the OD at the same time though. Sounds flabby/muddy with it engaged..... Also struggling to keep the cleans good while I'm happy with the OD. Much of the OD tone shaping comes from the drive from the clator which smooths out the OD when rolled up, but it also affects the clean channel. Odd, as I though this affected only the input signal going into the pedals via the FX loop?
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 11 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.12 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

CeriaTone Forum is not afiliated with Ceriatone Amplifications. The CeriaTone and name, logo and related trademarks and service marks, owned by CeriaTone. , are registered and/or used in the U.S. and many foreign countries. All other trademarks, service marks, and trade names referenced in this site are the property of their respective owners.