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Author Topic: HRM Bluesmaster setup advice  (Read 129042 times)
StratUltra
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2012, 09:15:56 AM »

Hi guys, I've finally got my cash-flow together and just made payment to Nik on my BM with mods plus wgs speaker with 1x12 cab.

Cannot wait!

Will post a review on how it tracks along
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212Mavguy
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2012, 01:26:06 PM »

Man, you just started on a big-ass journey...hold onto yer butt!   There will be many new things happening to your playing.  Don't be afraid to test old and new ideas, then discard  "nonworkingforyou" and add "onesthatdo" as you explore.  One of the bennies from getting to know my 50w HRM was learning to set up the controls on a couple of other, very nice, amps to get some of that D-tone singing thang going on, for instance. 

Serious congratulations to you!
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 06:23:30 PM »

Hi guys, I've finally got my cash-flow together and just made payment to Nik on my BM with mods plus wgs speaker with 1x12 cab.

Cannot wait!

Will post a review on how it tracks along

Yer gonna love it! I find i love mine more and more everyday. I finally got my Dano going again (needed a new bridge pup) and i have decided that one of the most magical sounds in the world is a Dano DC 59 with flatwounds through a BM. the clean took my breath away and the OD was mindblowing. I've never been so taken back by an amp before, and it just seems to get better with age!!

Keep us posted on your progress!

Gregg
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 06:57:05 PM by plasticvonaband » Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
StratUltra
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2012, 07:38:09 AM »

I'm excited!

To be honest, I was already keen to get an amp of this calibre but what that's really adding to it, is the mods (tone stack lift etc with adjustment pots etc) that Nik will add to my BM which will hopefully open an array of OD sounds for me.

I must say, it's almost like getting a "custom shop" amp but without the associated price tag.

Can't express how outstanding Nik's customer service has been.
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boldaslove6789
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2012, 08:47:37 AM »

Just wanted to give the OP a shout out that John Mayer did not play a Bluesmaster Voiced Dumble amp nor did his two rocks use anything close to what the Bluesmaster tonestack consists of on "Where the Light is"

 He played the following amps:

  Dumble Overdrive Special (100w w/ EL34's) and a Skyliner Tonestack (serial # in the late 200's) used with a Dumbleator in the Loop

 Two Rock Sterling Sig. (100w w/ 6L6's, "Classic tonestack") A clone of Henry Kaisers serial #4 Dumble Steel String Singer with inductor hi & Low Step Filters and Post PI cathode Follower Driver Tube. Used with a Dumbleator in the loop.

 Two Rock John Mayer Sig. (100w 6L6's, "Classic Tonestack") A clone of his own Silver panel serial #2 Dumble Steel String Singer, with a Post PI Cathode Follower Driver Tube, and No Hi/Low Step Filters

 All these amps were ON at the same time via the CAE switcher.

 The Overdrive came from either a Klon, Tubescreamer TS10, or Keely Katana.

 If you want to replicate the "Where the light is" tone the following from Ceriatone will be a perfect fit:

 100w HRM Mk II (w/ Skyliner tonestack) with EL34's
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-Greg D. Clark

Stop searching for tone, INVENT IT!

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212Mavguy
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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2012, 02:25:57 AM »

Now that is a post of posts!  Yaaaayyuuuhh!!  Very ampgarage-ishly accurate. Wink
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2012, 04:20:47 AM »

Indeed
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
SoundPerf
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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2012, 04:58:53 AM »

Now the $100 question. Did the OP get this information in time to change what he already ordered, or did we just cause him a crap load more anxiety?  Undecided

All in all, what it seems to me is that you can get there a mulititue of ways and unless you got super $$$ like JM it will be a good approximation in the end no matter what you get.

So, it looks like a nice OD pedal is part of the process too. That's what I've been doing.

Stratultra, Congrats on the new amp.  Wink
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Chris

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Avatar 2X12 w/WGS ET-65 & Veteran 30
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StratUltra
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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2012, 10:38:42 AM »

Ah bugger! This has indeed causes me more anxiety!

I suppose I could try change my order with Nik, however I've decided that the BM will do me more than fine with my search for tone.

Like very one else has stated, I need to search for my own tone and I think the BM will provide me that sonic palet to get there. If I keep changing my mind, I'll forever be changing equipment. Although I was looking at the JM tone, I like still am gravitating towards the BM because of it's cleans and wide selection of OD range with the mods. As they say, you can add the dirt, but you cant take it away!

In all honesty though, thank you to all for your input in getting me to decide.

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SoundPerf
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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2012, 08:28:29 PM »

Ah bugger! This has indeed causes me more anxiety!

I suppose I could try change my order with Nik, however I've decided that the BM will do me more than fine with my search for tone.

Like very one else has stated, I need to search for my own tone and I think the BM will provide me that sonic palet to get there. If I keep changing my mind, I'll forever be changing equipment. Although I was looking at the JM tone, I like still am gravitating towards the BM because of it's cleans and wide selection of OD range with the mods. As they say, you can add the dirt, but you cant take it away!

In all honesty though, thank you to all for your input in getting me to decide.



Seems like a sane approach. I think you'll love your choice. Plus like you, I want to find my own sound. Relax, it will be great!  Wink
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Chris

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Avatar 2X12 w/WGS ET-65 & Veteran 30
TC Electronic 2290
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StratUltra
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« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2012, 02:08:14 AM »

Ok guys, just posting up date on this

Received the cab and amp yesterday and I must say, the customer service and communication I've had from Nik, Lin and Sang has been amazing throughout this ordeal.

Amp looks great and all mods were done as per my specs. The amp itself isn't too difficult to dial in the cleans, but the OD is tricky at the moment. Hard to juggle volume and OD levels at present.

Right now, the OD sounds quite underwhelming, but I'm burning it in for the next day or so and hopefully the OD will be a little more crisp and dumble like. The cleans are quite darker than expected, because reading reviews and watching clips gave me the impression it would be on the brighter side, but this is easily remedied with the bright switches on either the amp or clator.

Ive only managed to play the amp through my strat ultra and yet to tried it with the gibson lp 59 yet, but I think it needs time for the amp to burn in, and also time breaking in the speakers.....

Just my initial impressions on the amp thus far.... I can tell you there is going to be a lot of time spent of tweaking her
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 02:16:30 AM by StratUltra » Logged
SoundPerf
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« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2012, 03:37:15 AM »

Ok guys, just posting up date on this

Received the cab and amp yesterday and I must say, the customer service and communication I've had from Nik, Lin and Sang has been amazing throughout this ordeal.

Amp looks great and all mods were done as per my specs. The amp itself isn't too difficult to dial in the cleans, but the OD is tricky at the moment. Hard to juggle volume and OD levels at present.

Right now, the OD sounds quite underwhelming, but I'm burning it in for the next day or so and hopefully the OD will be a little more crisp and dumble like. The cleans are quite darker than expected, because reading reviews and watching clips gave me the impression it would be on the brighter side, but this is easily remedied with the bright switches on either the amp or clator.

Ive only managed to play the amp through my strat ultra and yet to tried it with the gibson lp 59 yet, but I think it needs time for the amp to burn in, and also time breaking in the speakers.....

Just my initial impressions on the amp thus far.... I can tell you there is going to be a lot of time spent of tweaking her


Yes, it's best to save any conclusive opinions for a little while. These amps really do change as the break-in. I don't know if you mentioned it before, but what speakers are you using? I see you said WGS, just didn't read the exact model.

Oh, and try that Les Paul sooner than later. Don't get me wrong I love single coils through my amp, but humbuckers will make it sing a bit faster.

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Chris

Ceriatone HRM 50
w/self built Dumblelator
Avatar 2X12 w/WGS ET-65 & Veteran 30
TC Electronic 2290
2001 PRS McCarty
2010 PRS 513 Swamp Ash
Tacoma JK50C
Seagull S12+
StratUltra
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« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2012, 03:52:01 AM »

I ended up going with the WGS ET65, but I'm thinking maybe the EVM12L would be better choice. The bass on the amp is certainly on the heavy side.

I'm sure as time goes by, I'm sure the OD will be less fizzy. The cleans are good now,but I think they'll get even better once things settle down a little.

Will give the les Paul a go a little today!
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StratUltra
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« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2012, 05:31:09 AM »

Ok, after some burn in time (just leaving the amp on or about 24 hours), the cleans are definitely nicer now, but the overdrive from the amp and my overdrive pedals sounds less than good. Very fizzy and artificial sounding overdrive, which leads me to think that the new WGS ET-65 speakers needs some time to break in.

Just confirming if anyone else has had this experience before? This is actually the first time I've had new speakers before
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2012, 03:57:44 PM »

Hey Strat!  Sounds like you are well on your way!!!

To answer your question, Yes the ET-65's will definitely benefit from some break in time. I have the Weber Alnico variety of the 1265, and even though they had the Pre-Rola doping and were chemically broken in, they needed some break in time for sure. I feel they are still breaking in and changing even now.

Also, as far as burning the amp in goes, you are going to want to burn it in with some signal going through it. Just letting idle isn't going to do much to help form the caps, and won't help burn the tubes in either. I used the mp3 player plugged in to the amp, turned down about half way to avoid overloading the input section and played a nice selection of jazz at moderate volumes during the day while i was awake at home on my days off (i work nights) and at night i would play it at low volumes. i would normally get about 12 hours or so at a time, and i did this for 3-4 weeks. By then the amp, speakers, and tubes were nicely burned in.

Now, for the fizzy OD i have some tips and questions for ya. Be warned, this is ALOT of info which i have gathered over the last couple of years from a lot of helpful folks here on the forum. here we go!

1)What is your Bias set at? After much experimentation, i have found that the amp will sound best with recommended 55% Bias setting. the actual current level can vary depending on the actual plate voltage your amp has (mine runs at 445 volts, specs is 450, some run as high as 470!!) Check your actual plate voltage, and then set the bias to around 55% using the formula laid out in the manual. Just doing this may surprise you.

2) What is your OD trim set at? The urge is to crank it up, but i most cases the best sounds are attained by setting at noon at the highest.

3) When you use the OD are you using the PAB as well? On the HRM and The Bluesmaster, when you engaged the OD, both tonestacks, the normal external one and the HRM are working. This can make the OD sound pretty bad, as you are now going through two passive tonestacks.  If your HRM Tonestack IS NOT BYPASSED, the way it normally sounds best is to activate the PAB as well, and then adjust your internal trimmers to get the OD tone you want. If your HRM Tonestack IS BYPASSED then your OD tone is controlled solely by the main tonestack and you can adjust your OD tone that way. Be sure to mark the original position of the HRM trimmers with a pencil or a sharpie  before you move em in case you like the default sound

4)If your HRM Tonestack is bypassed you will find that you have a lot more gain (not drive but actual volume gain) available and that it can be hard to balance the volumes. If you have a C-Lator it isn't quite so bad, because you can turn your clean volume up, the OD volume down till they are balanced, and use the C-Lator as a master. There can still be a problem, though, because now the OD volume is so low that the bright cap on the OD level is active and can make the OD sound bright and harsh. There are several options to deal with this:
a) Clip or unsolder the bright cap
b) install a push pull pot in the Level spot and use it to switch the Bright Cap in and out (the standard HRM 50 has this option built in)
c) instead of just lifting the HRM from ground (or using a 22M resistor wired to an on-off-on switch, which ever method Nik used for your amp) use a 15k-30k resistor (suggested by boldaslove) or whichever value gets you where you want as far as HRM bypass and reasonable volume (i used a 68k, because i had one laying around). This will help with the volume jump, and you can have it on a on-off-on switch so you can have HRM engaged, HRM Full Bypass (loud) or HRM Mellow Bypass (Volume more normal)

5) What kind of tubes are you using in your pre amp section I have found that since the majority of the tone of these amps come from the pre amp section, the preamp tubes can make quite an impact on tone, especially the choice in V2 as it is the tube where the gain cascades (OD part of the circuit). There are no hard and fast rules on which sound "better" as tone is subjective, but the higher plate voltages the preamp sections deliver, generally the brighter the tone will be. I actually did some testing on some commonly used tubes and their plate voltages, mainly because there were no HRM Bypassed voltage charts on the ceriatone page, you can see the tests here----> http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=4054.0
Again, that's all just academic, and the only way to find that you like is do some tube rolling. I am currently using ribbed telefunkens in V1 and V2 and find them very well balanced and not fizzy, and a lil on the bright side, which can be good with the Bluesmaster and the 1265's. I did use and still do on occasion use late 50's early 60's GE long plates, they are nice and warm and not fizzy. Probably one of the most overlooked and important tubes in your amp is V3, the Phase inverter. It certainly works very hard, especially in the Bluesmaster due to the design of the PI, and a lot of techs will actually recommend changing it out every time you change your output tubes. A very stout long plate tube is best here, i usually use either a Sovtek LPS or a GT 12AX7R (Groove Tubes handpicked relabeled Sovteks) in V3. Speaking of the PI i have found that in regards to the PI trimmer, mine sounds best with voltage swing of about 7.5 volts instead of the standard 6 volts. Of course, the best and most proper way to set the PI trimmer is with an oscilloscope (it even says so in the manual), but you can also set it by the V3a vs V3b method, just know it isn't the most accurate. Also just as the manual states theres a lot of voltage in there so be careful!!

6) once everything is nice and broken in, try adjusting your internal HRM trimmers and see if you can get a tone that is more to your liking. Again, be sure to mark their original positions and BE CAREFUL. there's alot of voltage in there!!

Wow that is a whole lot of info i just spat out  Shocked  I'm gonna stop rambling now. Hopefully this will help you a bit. If i confused you or overloaded you i apologize i was on a roll!!!

Gregg
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 04:02:32 PM by plasticvonaband » Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
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