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Author Topic: Bluesmaster 50 Speaker Update..Updated Again!! :)  (Read 15081 times)
plasticvonaband
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« on: August 12, 2011, 12:22:50 AM »

So, even though it appears alot of guys/gals have flown the coop here since Nik stopped selling kits I thought i would give a little update on my Bluesmaster, specifically on the speaker choice. I originally had Weber AlNiCo 1265's installed, and they are pretty nice speakers, but not a great match for the Bluesmaster. I originally ordered them based on some recommendations from this forum and a few other sources, as they are a popular choice for the OTS series. The problem is that the Bluesmaster's tone stack is very similar to Blackface Fenders, and, as such along with having a nice high end and mid range section it also has a very large bass response. It's not something we think about very much, but Leo did design his amps to go along with his guitars, the strats and teles, and so the amps needed more bass response to make up for the guitars' lower bass output.

The 1265's, as i said were very warm, and had nice high end, and were not overly dark, as i had feared, but they did not take the bass output from the Bluesmaster well at all. Even at low volume and low bass settings the bass response was loose and flabby, and i just couldn't get used to it. At first i tought they just needed to break in some more, so i kept them in and kept gigging with them, but as they opened up, they got warmer and brighter, but the bass response never really developed. I thought maybe this was just how AlNiCo's are (these were my first AlNiCo speakers), but after doing some reading, and emailng weber, it turns out the bass response is more of a result of cone construction than magnet design.

Reluctantly, I pulled the Webers out, and dropped two of my 20 year old Eminience Legend G1's in there. I had 4 in my 4X12 cab that i used to use with my Sovtek and i always thought they were pretty good drivers. To my surprise, the amp really came to life. The bass response on those old speakers is nice and tight and well defined, and the mids and highs are every bit as good if not better than the Webers. The Blackface quality of the speakers REALLY shines through now. I am very impressed. I can even turn my bass control up past 3 now, and it stays nice and tight and well controlled.

I think the closest thing Eminience to them now is the 1258, so i may look into a pair of those to replace my 20 year old ones, as i am afraid they may go at any time, as the cones are pretty dry and flimsy and may blow any time. I'm thinking either those or the Weber 12F150's.

In short, if you have a Bluesmaster, and you are not happy with the low end response, try a more American type speaker, it seems the British style, while awesome in the mid's and high's, just don't stand up to the bass response that the amp is capable of.

Hope this helps!

Gregg
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 03:17:32 AM by plasticvonaband » Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
Sean
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 10:13:57 PM »

I am a new Bluesmaster (and D style amp) owner (100w HRM) and have been going through a speaker listening phase as well.  I'm fortunate enough to have a bunch of 12's laying around and access to more through friends who are willing to lend me a speaker for a few days to check out.

My amp came with a cabinet with 2 Two Rock speakers.  These are good, but I feel a little muted in the high end.  What I do like is the Eminence C-rex.  I settled on a combination of a C-rex and a Canis Major (which is an alnico version of the C-rex).

The bass response of this amp is very different than the Blackface fender I have been gigging for the last decade.  I've always been a Fender guy, but this amp is like a Fender on steroids.  It does blackface, but with more of everything.   The bottom end response of this amp can get out of control quick if you put the bass knob up to 5 or more.   

I have also tried a combo of a C-rex and a Two Rock 1265 which was pretty good (but not as good as the Crex/Canis Major).  I haven't gigged that combination yet, though. 

I want to try an Eminence Red Fang in combination with the Crex or the Two Rock.  We'll see how that goes. 

If I get the chance i will post clips from gigs with different speakers- recordings don't lie (much, anyway) and give me a fairly honest answer of what my rig sounds like at 25ft or so. 

Finally- thank you for the report on the Weber 1265- I was looking at that speaker as a possibility to mix with one that I already have.  Farty bass is not one of the things I look for, though. 

Apologies if i hijacked (especially for a first post)- but I've been going through the same thing you are with speakers.
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2011, 12:25:12 AM »

No Apologies Needed Smiley I agree it is like a Blackface on steroids. I was playing with a little more last night, and with the old eminence speakers in,there my Dano i can crank the bass right on up with no problem (surprise surprise) but with the Les Paul it can get boomy and overwhelmig real quick (again surprise surprise).

I may switch the power tubes out again to the JAN 6L6WGB's to get a little lower bass response for tonight's little blues jam and see how it goes. I should just shut up and play, but that's been hard for me to do lately Wink

I look forward to hearing your clips
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
washburnmemphis
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2011, 06:40:49 PM »


Good info in this thread.  I've got a Bluesmaster 100W, I tried a number of different speakers that I have on hand:

Weber Michigan - Unimpressed.  I love this speaker in a DRRI for handling really clean jazzy sounds tight bass but in the Bluesmaster totally unimpressive.  I was surprised.

Eminence Man O'War - Not bad but not good either.  I love this speaker in an 18 Watt clone.  Does the AC/DC thing with little effort.

Celestion g12t-75 - Similar experience to the Man O'War, except IMHO the Man O'War does the AC/DC thing much better.

Eminence CRex - Loved it.  The cleans sound great lots of definition and the overdrive shines.  No mud.

Eminence Tonespotter - See Crex.

I have both the CRex and the Tonespotter together in a 2X12.  Would love to throw a Celestion Gold or G1265 in the mix to see how they would work with the CRex or Tonespotter.

Interested in hearing more opinions
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2011, 06:52:53 PM »

Does the C-Rex allow the brightness to come through as well? I know that the hemp cones are known for "taming harsh treble" is why I ask. I've pretty much resigned my self to the fact that my LP will be a little muddy until i swap the pups out, but if I throw I GE-7 in front of the amp I can get some nice highs out of it, but I found out last night that even with the eminence drivers I have in there now the bass can get a little farty with the LP, but the highs and mids are there. So will the cannabis retain the mids and highs without being farty in the Bluesmaster?

Edited. Damn autocorrect
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 06:58:28 PM by plasticvonaband » Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
washburnmemphis
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2011, 09:59:25 PM »

I mainly play a LP Traditional Plus with stock  57 Classics.  Sounds great through the CRex/Tonespotter setup.  Not farty at all, no issues.  My current clean setting on the amp are Treble - 5, Middle - 3, Bass - 1.  I can run the Bass on 10 without any farting out.
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Tone Control
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2011, 10:58:25 PM »

Best I heard so far is BM50 + Celestion Gold

I will try my Legend 1258 with it soon.
Choice may depend on how clean you play it
I set the preamp vol low, master vol high
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
plasticvonaband
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2011, 11:29:45 PM »

Thanks, Tone. I may have to try the Gold one day. especially now because,,,,

What a difference a few hours and some tube and speaker swaps can make!!! I'm starting to think I am going nuts! On a hunch a swapped out the ANOS GE Long Plate 12AX7's  I had in V1 & V2, for some JJ's and instantly the amp brightened and tightened up quite a bit, so my curiosity was raised greatly, so i swapped the Weber 1265's back in and holy cow!! that's all i can say!  Chair Dance It seems all the looseness and fartiness i was experiencing were coming from the amp itself! I can definitely say that THIS is what i was looking for all along! It seems those Long Plates were just a bit too warm and dark for the Bluesmaster circuit and may have been the source of some of my woes all along! The clean channel is alot fuller and lush, and all the brightness is there, and the bass is nice and tight as well.

I cranked up the clean channel to around 8 out of 10 to drive the power section and was greeted with a beautiful power tube saturation overdrive sound and the Webers compressed and sang beautifully! All this from the supposedly "crappy" JJ's! I still have a Long Plate in the V3 as i swapped a few in and out of there, and it was the clear winner in that spot. I can't wait to see how the Celestion Gold will sound paired up with the Weber 1265 i'm stoked!

In short, as i said before, i think the Weber 1265 Alnico is a great speaker, but before i couldn't say it was a great match for the Bluesmaster, but now, I can safely say with the proper tube compliment and setup, they are a perfect match!! And they are no longer for sale Smiley Sorry!
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
Tone Control
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2011, 05:47:58 AM »

until I got the Celestion Gold, I thought of selling the BM50, I preferred the Fuchs ODS until that point.
It's certainly worth switching tubes and speakers before discarding an amp that is known to be popular
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
plasticvonaband
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2011, 06:44:01 AM »

Absolutely!!! I had no plans to sell the amp, I was going to find the combination that worked I'd it killed me Smiley
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
jmernyk
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2011, 03:38:48 PM »

Sorry again, but you are only overdriving the preamp turning up the first volume unless you crank the master too (or output of C-lator if you use one).
In amps that sound good with JJ's they have a good reputation (I've used them in dozens of amps), my 100W HRM had a full set for 2 and 1/2 years of constant gigging and sessions and they still test and sound great, only found it out after replacing with Winged "C" and other pre tubes... thought I would hear more output, better tone. Now the JJ's are a great spare set.


"I cranked up the clean channel to around 8 out of 10 to drive the power section and was greeted with a beautiful power tube saturation overdrive sound and the Webers compressed and sang beautifully! All this from the supposedly "crappy" JJ's!"
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2011, 05:20:51 PM »

Yeah, on the BM the Clean and OD channel each have their own master. I cranked the clean's master up and drove the power section. Wink 
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
Sean
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2011, 02:17:58 PM »

Does the C-Rex allow the brightness to come through as well? I know that the hemp cones are known for "taming harsh treble" is why I ask.

The Crex is not a dark speaker at all.  The treble is not muted, but it is never harsh.  Definately check this speaker out- it is very good at doing American tones.

The Lil Buddy (the 10" version of a Crex) on the other hand is a very dark speaker.  So I guess there is more at work than just the hemp cone.  I haven't tried Tone Tubby speakers, but i would be interested to see what they're all about (except I don't have unlimited $$$!).
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rvf263
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2011, 01:32:38 AM »

When I finish building my BM 50 I plan on trying these speakers:

EVM12L
Eminence RW&B
Eminence Red Fang

I'm thinking the EVM12L or the RW&B will sound the best but we'll see.
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2011, 01:37:41 AM »

I've heard nothing but great things about the EVM's. The only reason I haven't tried them is due to price.
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
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