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Author Topic: All about my Klein-ulator  (Read 51771 times)
kleinm
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« on: April 17, 2008, 04:15:49 AM »

Hey guys.  I didn't even realize this forum existed until jzucker turned me onto it this afternoon.  Its really cool to see a resource like this available for the great amps Nik makes.

Jack mentioned there has been some forum interest in my Klein-ulator circuit, and I thought I'd give you all a little background on it.  So, grab a coffee, beer, water, whatever, and take a gander.  Smiley

When I was waiting last spring for my Brown Note D'Lite kit to ship, I realized that I wanted a loop buffer but I didn't want to go to the trouble of building a tube Dumble-ator.  I started to explore my options, and quickly found there aren't many out there (if any) that did what I wanted.  I didn't want it to be bogged down in features, I didn't want to spend a lot of money...etc.  I just wanted a unit that would sound good and do its job.

I sat down and started to list everything I wanted, and it looked like a JFET adaptation of the Dumble-ator would offer the best fit.  I sketched a few things out, and eventually I came up with something that I was intrigued by enough to build.  I was happy, but I knew it could be better.  This is the version that I've posted on the Brown Note forum and the Amp Garage forum. 

I'm sure some may ask "why not tube?", and that's a viable question.  But, I ask in response "what do tubes do best?".  For me, they distort, add harmonic complexity, add subtle compression, and smooth out the top end.  They have some great performance characteristics too, but I won't get into the technical stuff.  Anyways, I didn't want the unit to distort...but harmonics, VERY slight compression, and smoothing all sounded nice to me.  I have incorporated each of those characteristics, the best I could, into this last version of the Klein-ulator.

Since then (maybe for the last 8 months or so?) I've been tweaking the circuit.  My biggest step forward was when I actually build a tube Dumble-ator this winter (with the gracious help and transformer from Brandon at Bludotone).  I finally had a benchmark to compare to.  Some 4 months later, I now have a design that I can honestly say sounds 99% identical (to my very humble ears) to my tube unit, with the added benefit of lower noise.

I'm wrestling with how to handle the design, though.  I'm a full-time student, and I definitely did not design this with the intention of making some money.  However, I've put a lot of time into its design (there is nothing like it anywhere, at least that I'm aware of), and its become more "personal" than I'd anticipated...if that makes any sense. 

I would love to make the unit for people in small numbers, but I'd have to make sure that 1) they would realize I couldn't start until the summer, 2) I'm a one-man show and face all the related obstacles a priori, 3) everything, from making the Printed Circuit Board, to drilling the enclosure would be done by hand.

However, I'm considering making the most current design 100% public domain, particularly in the spirit of gentlemen like those at runoffgroove, Gil Ayan, "Allymney", etc.  However, I'd hate to do that and regret it instantly.

So, I'm looking to you guys....  For advice, for input, for what the interest level in the Klein-ulator is.  Please reply and let me know what you think.  It would be most appreciated.

For what its worth, the version I made for Jack Zucker (thanks again, Jack!) has these features:
- 1W carbon film resistors
- Panasonic ECQ polyester film capacitors
- Nichicon Muse electrolytic capacitors
- Cliff jacks
- Mountain switches
- Alpha potentiometers
- Teflon-coated, shielded wire in the signal path for lowest possible noise

- Adjustable Send (signal to effect), Return (signal from effect), and Recovery (signal to power amp) levels
- Bright I and Bright II switches (power is switchable, not "always on", too)
- Serial signal routing (input, send, return, output jacks)
- Supplied by a standard "Boss style" 9V adapter

Here's pics of the one that's en route to jzucker.


* IMG_2474.JPG (1049.68 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 1286 times.)

* IMG_2475.JPG (846.14 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 1107 times.)

* IMG_2476.JPG (892.9 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 1344 times.)
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ChrisL
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 05:52:01 AM »

Hey Kleinm,

Good to see you drop by and great to see the result of all those months of work since the early days on the Brownnote D'Lite forum.  Interesting enough, I was just checking earlier today to see if Moss had his "mossleator"..lol.. ready to go, or not.  I'd be very interested in one of yours, actually.  Are you offering it as a complete build or a kit?  I followed your threads on the build and would be pretty easy to put together.     I've been meaning to build a dumleator but I hate sourcing the parts.  Let us know what kind of pricing structure you have in mind.  Personally, I'd be interested in a "bag-o-bits" an eyelet board(s), current schemo and layout, and drill my own chassis....like I said, I hate finding parts.

Cheers,

ChrisL  AKA   "candh" everywhere else
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jzucker
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 01:13:39 PM »

I can't wait to get mine. I'm totally psyched about it. Thanks so much Mike.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2008, 07:52:43 PM by jzucker » Logged
kleinm
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 03:21:01 PM »

Hey Kleinm,

Good to see you drop by and great to see the result of all those months of work since the early days on the Brownnote D'Lite forum.  Interesting enough, I was just checking earlier today to see if Moss had his "mossleator"..lol.. ready to go, or not.  I'd be very interested in one of yours, actually.  Are you offering it as a complete build or a kit?  I followed your threads on the build and would be pretty easy to put together.     I've been meaning to build a dumleator but I hate sourcing the parts.  Let us know what kind of pricing structure you have in mind.  Personally, I'd be interested in a "bag-o-bits" an eyelet board(s), current schemo and layout, and drill my own chassis....like I said, I hate finding parts.

Cheers,

ChrisL  AKA   "candh" everywhere else

Hey Chris.  As of right now, I have no plans to offer it as a kit.  There are three options that are most appealing to me - 1) keeping it to myself and selling it as a finished product, 2) bartering with Nik or Moss to make the design theirs, 3) making the design 100% public domain.

If I choose #3, I'll also include a BOM that you can import directly into Mouser's BOM tool. 
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kleinm
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2008, 03:22:16 PM »

I can't wait to get mine. I'm totally psyched about it. Thanks so much Mark.

Its en route via USPS Priority Mail.  It and Aum should arrive late this week or early next week.  As I mentioned in the email, you might try settings set like shown in the pictures.

I hope you enjoy it, and keep me posted!
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jzucker
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2008, 07:53:01 PM »

Sorry for calling you Mark!
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kleinm
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2008, 09:14:50 PM »

Sorry for calling you Mark!

LOL!  No worries man.  I've been called worse names.
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jake
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2008, 11:21:09 PM »

PM sent.
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brads
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 12:16:04 AM »

PM sent.
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Sparky
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 03:25:41 AM »

Obviously, you are the only one who can make the final marketing decision. You may want to try to get an idea of the demand for the device before choosing. For example, how many Overtones has Nik shipped, and what is projected demand? Out of those, any way to guesstimate how many would want a klein'lator? Also, do you think Brownote users or other D stylists would be interested? I think the uber-snobs would only go with a tube unit, but the Overtone does not really pitch to that crowd. The fact that you made it a non-rack unit in my mind would increase it's appeal.  After ballparking demand, decide if you could meet it on your own. If not, can you live with a long wait list? If the wait list gets too long, it's likely the unit would get copied and other makers would pop up.

Microsoft did pretty well with licensing, you may want to give it a try Smiley

Hey Kleinm,

Good to see you drop by and great to see the result of all those months of work since the early days on the Brownnote D'Lite forum.  Interesting enough, I was just checking earlier today to see if Moss had his "mossleator"..lol.. ready to go, or not.  I'd be very interested in one of yours, actually.  Are you offering it as a complete build or a kit?  I followed your threads on the build and would be pretty easy to put together.     I've been meaning to build a dumleator but I hate sourcing the parts.  Let us know what kind of pricing structure you have in mind.  Personally, I'd be interested in a "bag-o-bits" an eyelet board(s), current schemo and layout, and drill my own chassis....like I said, I hate finding parts.

Cheers,

ChrisL  AKA   "candh" everywhere else

Hey Chris.  As of right now, I have no plans to offer it as a kit.  There are three options that are most appealing to me - 1) keeping it to myself and selling it as a finished product, 2) bartering with Nik or Moss to make the design theirs, 3) making the design 100% public domain.

If I choose #3, I'll also include a BOM that you can import directly into Mouser's BOM tool. 
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strat100
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 08:45:24 AM »

PM sent.
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kleinm
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 04:34:57 PM »

Obviously, you are the only one who can make the final marketing decision. You may want to try to get an idea of the demand for the device before choosing. For example, how many Overtones has Nik shipped, and what is projected demand? Out of those, any way to guesstimate how many would want a klein'lator? Also, do you think Brownote users or other D stylists would be interested? I think the uber-snobs would only go with a tube unit, but the Overtone does not really pitch to that crowd. The fact that you made it a non-rack unit in my mind would increase it's appeal.  After ballparking demand, decide if you could meet it on your own. If not, can you live with a long wait list? If the wait list gets too long, it's likely the unit would get copied and other makers would pop up.

Microsoft did pretty well with licensing, you may want to give it a try Smiley

Hey Sparky.  Thanks for the advice.  You bring up some excellent points that are worth considering.  I really appreciate you taking the time to provide your input.

I'll keep you guys posted.  Right now, Nik and I are casually talking about options.
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kleinm
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2008, 04:35:27 PM »

PMs replied.  Thanks guys!
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Luithien
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2008, 03:33:31 AM »

Sounds very cool. Would be interested in one as purchase.

JT
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kleinm
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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2008, 04:00:30 PM »

Sounds very cool. Would be interested in one as purchase.

JT

JT - thanks, and cool!  Nik and I are still discussing how we can get these out there.  So far, I'm VERY excited!

Everyone, thanks so much for your interest and support!
- mk
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