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| | |-+  100w/50w Hi/Low Switches/Circuitry *** Any GOOD switches that ACTUALLY WORK???		 « previous next »
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Author Topic: 100w/50w Hi/Low Switches/Circuitry *** Any GOOD switches that ACTUALLY WORK???  (Read 19904 times)
Toppscore
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2013, 09:07:08 PM »
Quote from: wyatt on January 21, 2013, 06:14:43 PM
Quote from: Toppscore on January 20, 2013, 11:41:40 PM
Quote from: Bluestone on January 20, 2013, 07:44:30 AM
When Nik built my OTS 100 May 2012, i asked for the half power mod, which is a toggle switch on the rear panel.
In half power mode all four 6L6s are still in operation, but switched to triode mode from pentode.
This gives the usual reduction in expected volume & clean headroom from  100 to 50 watts, but the tone is a little different.
Four 6L6 in triode gives a smooth & warmer tone than two 6l6 running at 50 watts.
It`s not quite as punchy as 100 watt pentode mode.. but i prefer the triode 50 watt choice to both 100 & 50 watt pentode.
Actually.. i think these D clones run around 90 watts, so half power probably around 45 watts.
Anyhow, i can recommend triode mode as it gives the obvious volume reduction, but also a nice change in tone character.
Hope that make sense for ya..!  Wink

Thanks. Will have to study this "triad" tube management option.
Love getting different tones from amps. Seems cool Grin
Add the C-Lator to the triad mode output and maybe get more cool tones Shocked
Does the "triad mode" work in the 50w amps? or just 100w amps?

Triode switching will work in a 50-watt amp, it turns off part of each power tube, but still uses all the tubes.
Myself, I'm not a fan of triode/pentode switching (some people are, your mileage may vary). Triode mode completely changes the dynamics of the power amp and makes everything "squishy" and undefined. The attack on the note becomes softer, the overdrive becomes less defined and duller, etc.  In can turn a high-gain amp to sonic mud.

It is a good insight that the typical ODS/OTS style amp, like many "hi gain" "cascading tube" designs is built around a big, clean power amp designed to deliver the preamp's tone without smoothing it over and muddying it up with power tube distortion. The exception is the Bluesmaster, which attempts to get some of the less-focused, less-defined, thicker Marshall tone going on. Amps like the OTS, Mesa Mk. series, Soldano, 5150, etc. can all sound great a low volumes because the power amp is mostly there for amplification, and has a lesser affcet on tone.



Question, Wyatt.  Great information:
What if a player buys an Ceriatone Overtone 100w amp and adds
"either or both" the "triad mode" switch and/or the "Hi/Low" switch options.
. . . . . and later the player discovers he does not like either the triad mode
or the low-switch sounds/tones.
Therefore, the amp owner only plays that amp at 100w.

Will either or both of these options affect the amp's tones/sounds if not used
and only played in the 100w mode? 

Except for money paid for these two options, are there any other
problems or compromises towards tone/sound if not used?

Thanks, Wyatt.  Much appreciated your answer.  Toppscore Cheesy
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Love Fender Dumble Trainwreck Tones * 1954 Fender 5D6 4x10 Bassman
1960 Fender 6G4 2x10 Super Amp * 1964 Bassman Amp Head
1964 Twin Reverb 2x12 * 1964 Super Reverb 4x10
1983 Concert II * 1983 Twin Reverb II Amp Head
1968 Showman Reverb Head * 1968 Bandmaster Reverb Head
2012 Fender G-DEC-30w
wyatt
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2013, 09:09:36 PM »
Quote from: Toppscore on January 21, 2013, 09:07:08 PM
Quote from: wyatt on January 21, 2013, 06:14:43 PM
Quote from: Toppscore on January 20, 2013, 11:41:40 PM
Quote from: Bluestone on January 20, 2013, 07:44:30 AM
When Nik built my OTS 100 May 2012, i asked for the half power mod, which is a toggle switch on the rear panel.
In half power mode all four 6L6s are still in operation, but switched to triode mode from pentode.
This gives the usual reduction in expected volume & clean headroom from  100 to 50 watts, but the tone is a little different.
Four 6L6 in triode gives a smooth & warmer tone than two 6l6 running at 50 watts.
It`s not quite as punchy as 100 watt pentode mode.. but i prefer the triode 50 watt choice to both 100 & 50 watt pentode.
Actually.. i think these D clones run around 90 watts, so half power probably around 45 watts.
Anyhow, i can recommend triode mode as it gives the obvious volume reduction, but also a nice change in tone character.
Hope that make sense for ya..!  Wink

Thanks. Will have to study this "triad" tube management option.
Love getting different tones from amps. Seems cool Grin
Add the C-Lator to the triad mode output and maybe get more cool tones Shocked
Does the "triad mode" work in the 50w amps? or just 100w amps?

Triode switching will work in a 50-watt amp, it turns off part of each power tube, but still uses all the tubes.
Myself, I'm not a fan of triode/pentode switching (some people are, your mileage may vary). Triode mode completely changes the dynamics of the power amp and makes everything "squishy" and undefined. The attack on the note becomes softer, the overdrive becomes less defined and duller, etc.  In can turn a high-gain amp to sonic mud.

It is a good insight that the typical ODS/OTS style amp, like many "hi gain" "cascading tube" designs is built around a big, clean power amp designed to deliver the preamp's tone without smoothing it over and muddying it up with power tube distortion. The exception is the Bluesmaster, which attempts to get some of the less-focused, less-defined, thicker Marshall tone going on. Amps like the OTS, Mesa Mk. series, Soldano, 5150, etc. can all sound great a low volumes because the power amp is mostly there for amplification, and has a lesser affcet on tone.



Question, Wyatt.  Great information:
What if a player buys an Ceriatone Overtone 100w amp and adds
"either or both" the "triad mode" switch and/or the "Hi/Low" switch options.
. . . . . and later the player discovers he does not like either the triad mode
or the low-switch sounds/tones.
Therefore, the amp owner only plays that amp at 100w.

Will either or both of these options affect the amp's tones/sounds if not used
and only played in the 100w mode?  

Except for money paid for these two options, are there any other
problems or compromises towards tone/sound if not used?

Thanks, Wyatt.  Much appreciated your answer.  Toppscore Cheesy

Nope, they won't affect a thing when not used.

In triode mode, the screens of the tubes are connected straight to the plates (instead of the screen power supply), making the tube work like a triode (cathode, gird, plate). Tube Hi-Fi guys love triode mode (this has to do with better "even order harmonics...and stuff), especially coupled with ultralinar output designs, guitarist eventually all seem to leave it in pentode mode. Never use the switch when the amp is on.

As for turning two tubes off (or removing them, as long as the speaker impedance switch is set to compensate, the only other issues are slightly raised voltages and currents.
 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 12:40:22 AM by wyatt » Logged
Toppscore
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« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2013, 01:11:19 AM »
Wyatt.
Cool Cool
Thanks Wink
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1960 Fender 6G4 2x10 Super Amp * 1964 Bassman Amp Head
1964 Twin Reverb 2x12 * 1964 Super Reverb 4x10
1983 Concert II * 1983 Twin Reverb II Amp Head
1968 Showman Reverb Head * 1968 Bandmaster Reverb Head
2012 Fender G-DEC-30w
Bluestone
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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2013, 10:57:07 AM »
My OTS sounds great in both pentode & triode.
I think Niks half power switch to triode is an excellent mod.. giving the user more than one sonic option.
The amp still has plenty of balls and clarity in triode.. but it`s smoother, which can be a good option.
You can still rock out in triode, but if i were to play a jazz type gig, triode would be my choice.
There`s no mud at all.. just smoother and less in your face type tones.
IMHO the above makes the amp even more versatile..!
Cheers...
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Toppscore
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2013, 11:46:11 AM »
Quote from: Bluestone on February 09, 2013, 10:57:07 AM
My OTS sounds great in both pentode & triode.
I think Niks half power switch to triode is an excellent mod.. giving the user more than one sonic option.
The amp still has plenty of balls and clarity in triode.. but it`s smoother, which can be a good option.
You can still rock out in triode, but if i were to play a jazz type gig, triode would be my choice.
There`s no mud at all.. just smoother and less in your face type tones.
IMHO the above makes the amp even more versatile..!
Cheers... 

Thanks, Bluestone!
I plan on getting the half/power switch circuit option.
Is this option available for both Dumble-like amps and Trainwreck-like amps?

Are there amps this option/feature will not work or be offered?
Will it work on 100w amps as well as 50w amps?

Thanks for any and all response Grin
Toppscore Cool
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Love Fender Dumble Trainwreck Tones * 1954 Fender 5D6 4x10 Bassman
1960 Fender 6G4 2x10 Super Amp * 1964 Bassman Amp Head
1964 Twin Reverb 2x12 * 1964 Super Reverb 4x10
1983 Concert II * 1983 Twin Reverb II Amp Head
1968 Showman Reverb Head * 1968 Bandmaster Reverb Head
2012 Fender G-DEC-30w
Bluestone
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2013, 04:11:28 AM »
Yep.. works on 100 watt amps. Go onto the ceriatone amp site and email Nik. He`s great to deal with and will confirm the options for you on the different amp models Ceriatone offers.
I presume the triode half power option could be applied to most amps he makes.. but he will confirm for you.
The half power option on my 100 watt OTS cost about $15 USD. Money well spent..!
Cheers...
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Toppscore
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2013, 07:47:06 AM »
Quote from: Bluestone on February 15, 2013, 04:11:28 AM
Yep.. works on 100 watt amps. Go onto the ceriatone amp site and email Nik. He`s great to deal with and will confirm the options for you on the different amp models Ceriatone offers.
I presume the triode half power option could be applied to most amps he makes.. but he will confirm for you.
The half power option on my 100 watt OTS cost about $15 USD. Money well spent..!
Cheers... 


Cheers, back!
50w amps as well can receive the half-power treatment?
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Love Fender Dumble Trainwreck Tones * 1954 Fender 5D6 4x10 Bassman
1960 Fender 6G4 2x10 Super Amp * 1964 Bassman Amp Head
1964 Twin Reverb 2x12 * 1964 Super Reverb 4x10
1983 Concert II * 1983 Twin Reverb II Amp Head
1968 Showman Reverb Head * 1968 Bandmaster Reverb Head
2012 Fender G-DEC-30w
Bluestone
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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2013, 02:45:40 AM »
Yes.. if the method of selecting half power is triode, then half power can be used on a 50 watt amp that uses two 6l6 or EL 34 tubes.
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Toppscore
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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2013, 02:56:37 AM »
Quote from: Bluestone on February 16, 2013, 02:45:40 AM
Yes.. if the method of selecting half power is triode, then half power can be used on a 50 watt amp that uses two 6l6 or EL 34 tubes.

Thanks.  I will be buying either a Ceriatone Dumble/ish or Trainwreck/ish amp this year.
Much appreciated.  Toppscore Smiley
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Love Fender Dumble Trainwreck Tones * 1954 Fender 5D6 4x10 Bassman
1960 Fender 6G4 2x10 Super Amp * 1964 Bassman Amp Head
1964 Twin Reverb 2x12 * 1964 Super Reverb 4x10
1983 Concert II * 1983 Twin Reverb II Amp Head
1968 Showman Reverb Head * 1968 Bandmaster Reverb Head
2012 Fender G-DEC-30w
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2013, 09:28:46 PM »
Great..! Nik makes really good amps & his service is top-notch. I`ve never played a TW amp, but i can say the OTS i have a stunning.
Just keep in mind speaker choice seems to be critical to get the best from the Dumble style amps.
There are a few posts here that cover the subject.. Seems to be the G1265 or EV for top choices for the D clones.
I`m running a Mesa C90 black-shadow and it sounds great.
I`ve also tried a JBL that had nice cleans, but sounded a bit too treble orientated & clinical with the OD engaged.
Cheers..
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Toppscore
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« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2013, 06:34:40 AM »
Quote from: Bluestone on February 17, 2013, 09:28:46 PM
Great..! Nik makes really good amps & his service is top-notch. I`ve never played a TW amp, but i can say the OTS i have a stunning.  Just keep in mind speaker choice seems to be critical to get the best from the Dumble style amps. There are a few posts here that cover the subject.. Seems to be the G1265 or EV for top choices for the D clones. I`m running a Mesa C90 black-shadow and it sounds great. I`ve also tried a JBL that had nice cleans, but sounded a bit too treble orientated & clinical with the OD engaged. Cheers

Thanks, Bluestone.
I will be getting one of each (Dumble & Trainwreck).
I like amp heads for just that reason ~
to play with different speaker configurations/options.
Your info is much appreciated.  Toppscore Smiley
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Love Fender Dumble Trainwreck Tones * 1954 Fender 5D6 4x10 Bassman
1960 Fender 6G4 2x10 Super Amp * 1964 Bassman Amp Head
1964 Twin Reverb 2x12 * 1964 Super Reverb 4x10
1983 Concert II * 1983 Twin Reverb II Amp Head
1968 Showman Reverb Head * 1968 Bandmaster Reverb Head
2012 Fender G-DEC-30w
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