Ceriatone Forum

Ceratone (Nik) already does this modification and many others. You have to specify what mods you want before ordering an amp.

Cheers.

Reducing the POWER by 50% does not result in a 50% reduction in volume.  Perceived volume to power is a logarithmic relationship.  A 10W (not 50W) amp is roughly half the volume of a 100W amp.  I've got a 1W amp that is still pretty loud!

Thanks, Pickmaster.
Are buyers of Ceriatone amps happy with the Hi/Low switch?
Do some find it really helps while others have a hard time noticing the difference?

and, do you feel the Hi/Low switch when NOT in use affects the original intended sounds/tones?

Thanks for your response.   Toppscore 8)

This is an amazing fact.

Maybe some amps SHOULD have a 100w and a 10w/15w alternate circuit.
What do you think?

I would suggest you get a C-lator as well whether you go 50 or 100 watt. Even if you do not use the effects loop it will provide you with one of the most useful master volumes of any of the other amps I've ever tried.
In other words there will be no need for an attenuator or half power switch with the OTS amps whether you go 50 or 100 watt. I built 2 50 watters because I dont think I'd need the extra headroom you'd get from 100 watts but have since been in a situation where I wished I had gone 100 watts.
Now if you get a trainwreck express an attenuator you may need. Based off the your previous posts I doubt you would like the TW express ( you said you dont like Marshall's ), I built one and out of the 6 amps I now have it gets the least play time. The volume knob on that amp goes from off to loud as heck.

Todd

Honestly, power supply, transformers, and speakers are all decisions that make a 10-watt and a great 10-watt amp and the same for a 100-watt amp...and they aren't the same. Ultimately, when one attempts a swiss-army amp, they have to start making compromising. Whether tube swaps, attenuators, power-scaling, master volume, etc., you'll always have side-effects trying to get bedroom- and stadium-level volumes from one amp.

When Nik built my OTS 100 May 2012, i asked for the half power mod, which is a toggle switch on the rear panel.
In half power mode all four 6L6s are still in operation, but switched to triode mode from pentode.
This gives the usual reduction in expected volume & clean headroom from  100 to 50 watts, but the tone is a little different.
Four 6L6 in triode gives a smooth & warmer tone than two 6l6 running at 50 watts.
It`s not quite as punchy as 100 watt pentode mode.. but i prefer the triode 50 watt choice to both 100 & 50 watt pentode.
Actually.. i think these D clones run around 90 watts, so half power probably around 45 watts.
Anyhow, i can recommend triode mode as it gives the obvious volume reduction, but also a nice change in tone character.
Hope that make sense for ya..!  ;)

wyatt is right. Stop chasing low power in a high power amp. It aint there.

If you want a low power amp get one designed and voiced to do the job. I have tried Powerscaling, attenuators, pentode/triode switching, pulling output tubes, and everything has an effect and always not good. Attenuators down to around 6dB are OK, powerscaling in moderation is OK, lower sensitivity speakers (but you'll not get the speaker you 'prefer' in a lower power version, so another compromise), etc etc.

But actually, the OTS is already well suited to lower output volumes because of the way its designed, the output section is designed to run clean all the way up. You just need to voice it slightly differently for lower colume and possibly a few other mods to increase the touch sensitiyity in the pre-amp.

T Wilcox:
Thanks for the info.  Much appreciated.
Will be investigating the C-Lator.  Seems like great technology and useful.
The late "signal boost" before the signal hits the speakers is cool.

Going 100watt amps is, IMHO, the way to go for full tone.
I've a 1983 Fender 105w Twin Reverb II,
a 1964 Fender 85w Twin Reverb
a 1968 100w Fender Showman Reverb
and a 1960 Fender 40w Super Amp that needs to be tamed
before blowing out it's 2x10 Jensen P10R speakers :o :o


Therefore, getting a 100w Trainwreck clone and a 100w Overtone clone
is more desirable if the C-Lator or Weber Mass 200 will do the job.
Maybe throw in the Ceriatone Hi/Low 100w/50w switch in the initial build, anyway :-\

Toppscore 8)

No "Swiss Army Amp" for me. Just wondering what is possible or desirable.
Simply just purchase the proven amp kits/clones that Ceriatone stands behind.
Take care. Toppscore 8)

Thanks. Will have to study this "triad" tube management option.
Love getting different tones from amps. Seems cool ;D
Add the C-Lator to the triad mode output and maybe get more cool tones :o

Does the "triad mode" work in the 50w amps? or just 100w amps?

Thanks, Hywleg!
So you do not recommend the C-Lator or Triad Mode option or a Weber Mass 200
applied to a 100w overtone?  Maybe under special situations?

Believe me, I can easily play 40w-50w amps as well as 100w amps,
but it is nice to care in one amp, a 100watter, and have some "GOOD"
options at lower volumes.

Actually, my 1968 Fender 100w Showman Reverb and 1964 Fender 85w Twin Reverb
both sound very good at low volumes with nice tone output.  So, I know what you
mean that the Overtone 100w plays well at low volumes.  Thankk for sharing :)

Not for taming volume no. The C-lator is only necessary if you want to run effects. It has some effect on the amps response and is a different master volume thats all. It isn't necessary to run effects either, lots will work without it. (Nova reverb works fine for me, Pickmaster uses some without  a *lator).

Triad mode is useful for an overly bright amp, its not good at all as a volume switch as it makes the amp duller.

An attenuator will only take some volume off before it has an effect on the tone. I don't know about the Weber Mass, I use a Hotplate which is fine live to -8dB but for recording you'd not want to go below -4dB, but only with Fender style amps, it doesn't work well with EL84 amps, the Airbrake works better. And the Marshall Powerbrake works well with Marshall amps but not with Fender style amps. All attenuators are not created equal. If you have plenty of cash you will be able to experiment, otherwise look to the Fuchs Casino range, Blackjack21?

Triode switching will work in a 50-watt amp, it turns off part of each power tube, but still uses all the tubes.

Myself, I'm not a fan of triode/pentode switching (some people are, your mileage may vary). Triode mode completely changes the dynamics of the power amp and makes everything "squishy" and undefined. The attack on the note becomes softer, the overdrive becomes less defined and duller, etc.  In can turn a high-gain amp to sonic mud.

It is a good insight that the typical ODS/OTS style amp, like many "hi gain" "cascading tube" designs is built around a big, clean power amp designed to deliver the preamp's tone without smoothing it over and muddying it up with power tube distortion. The exception is the Bluesmaster, which attempts to get some of the less-focused, less-defined, thicker Marshall tone going on. Amps like the OTS, Mesa Mk. series, Soldano, 5150, etc. can all sound great a low volumes because the power amp is mostly there for amplification, and has a lesser affcet on tone.

Question, Wyatt.  Great information:
What if a player buys an Ceriatone Overtone 100w amp and adds
"either or both" the "triad mode" switch and/or the "Hi/Low" switch options.
. . . . . and later the player discovers he does not like either the triad mode
or the low-switch sounds/tones.
Therefore, the amp owner only plays that amp at 100w.

Will either or both of these options affect the amp's tones/sounds if not used
and only played in the 100w mode? 

Except for money paid for these two options, are there any other
problems or compromises towards tone/sound if not used?

Thanks, Wyatt.  Much appreciated your answer.  Toppscore :D

Nope, they won't affect a thing when not used.

In triode mode, the screens of the tubes are connected straight to the plates (instead of the screen power supply), making the tube work like a triode (cathode, gird, plate). Tube Hi-Fi guys love triode mode (this has to do with better "even order harmonics...and stuff), especially coupled with ultralinar output designs, guitarist eventually all seem to leave it in pentode mode. Never use the switch when the amp is on.

As for turning two tubes off (or removing them, as long as the speaker impedance switch is set to compensate, the only other issues are slightly raised voltages and currents.
 

Wyatt.
Cool 8)
Thanks ;)

My OTS sounds great in both pentode & triode.
I think Niks half power switch to triode is an excellent mod.. giving the user more than one sonic option.
The amp still has plenty of balls and clarity in triode.. but it`s smoother, which can be a good option.
You can still rock out in triode, but if i were to play a jazz type gig, triode would be my choice.
There`s no mud at all.. just smoother and less in your face type tones.
IMHO the above makes the amp even more versatile..!
Cheers...

Thanks, Bluestone!
I plan on getting the half/power switch circuit option.
Is this option available for both Dumble-like amps and Trainwreck-like amps?

Are there amps this option/feature will not work or be offered?
Will it work on 100w amps as well as 50w amps?

Thanks for any and all response ;D
Toppscore 8)

Yep.. works on 100 watt amps. Go onto the ceriatone amp site and email Nik. He`s great to deal with and will confirm the options for you on the different amp models Ceriatone offers.
I presume the triode half power option could be applied to most amps he makes.. but he will confirm for you.
The half power option on my 100 watt OTS cost about $15 USD. Money well spent..!
Cheers...

Cheers, back!
50w amps as well can receive the half-power treatment?

Yes.. if the method of selecting half power is triode, then half power can be used on a 50 watt amp that uses two 6l6 or EL 34 tubes.

Thanks.  I will be buying either a Ceriatone Dumble/ish or Trainwreck/ish amp this year.
Much appreciated.  Toppscore :)

Great..! Nik makes really good amps & his service is top-notch. I`ve never played a TW amp, but i can say the OTS i have a stunning.
Just keep in mind speaker choice seems to be critical to get the best from the Dumble style amps.
There are a few posts here that cover the subject.. Seems to be the G1265 or EV for top choices for the D clones.
I`m running a Mesa C90 black-shadow and it sounds great.
I`ve also tried a JBL that had nice cleans, but sounded a bit too treble orientated & clinical with the OD engaged.
Cheers..

Thanks, Bluestone.
I will be getting one of each (Dumble & Trainwreck).
I like amp heads for just that reason ~
to play with different speaker configurations/options.
Your info is much appreciated.  Toppscore :)