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Author Topic: Defective PT  (Read 7332 times)
fpaul
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« on: November 17, 2009, 02:25:14 AM »

I am trying to verify the PT triode sold me for my marshall 50w is defective.  The heater wires show continuity to the 6.3v center tap and the 690 secondaries show continuity to their center tap.  I'm pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen but want to be sure before I buy another PT. Could someone with more experience veriy this please?  This is my first tube amp after building quite a few pedals.  Wish I had noticed before I wired it up.  I did notice before I powered up so it isn't anything I did.

I have a Ceriatone board and chassis.  I was planning to buy their transformers when I got some more money but decided to go with the Magnetic Components to save shipping.  Website said they would ship in two days.  After four days I emailed and they said would ship the next day.  After five more days I emailed again and they said had everything but the PT and would pick it up and ship it the next day, and refund the shipping. I waited a week and emailed.  Said he had been sick with the flu and would ship that day, which it did.  They refunded the shipping but shorted me 6 cliff jacks.  Emailed me again and they said they didn't charge me for the jacks.  Fine, but now I had to wait for another order, because they never mentioned it.  Now the PT, which I had to wait three weeks to ship seems to have arrived defective.  I'll probably ask for a replacement just for kicks but based on my past experience I don't even expect an answer.   
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cmoore
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2009, 02:49:19 AM »

The heaters are normal, almost a dead short.  Maybe 0.5-2.5 ohms, do you get something like that?  I would think the secondaries would read much more DC resistance than that.  Did you ask Triode??  They are a very reputable company.
Are you talking about 2 different amps and two different sets of tranny's ?  That is to say, if you already have iron from Triode, why would you also get transformers from Merc Mag ?
Speaking of MM transformers..... have you looked into other brands ?   Heyboer, Pacific, Hammond, Triode (which are probably Magnetic Components tranny's, not to be confused with Merc Mag)  Generally speaking, MM pricing is very high.  Did you get a good deal from them ?
Good Luck
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fpaul
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2009, 03:18:35 AM »

These are one set of Magnetic components as I stated in my post.  I'm not sure where you're getting MM from, but thanks for the response.

After pulling the secondaries from the diodes I am reading about 40 ohms from each secondary to CT and about 80 accross both secondaries.  Is this normal? I read on metroamp forum that the secondaries shouldn't have a short to ground, and a short indicated a bad PT.   

As for the heaters, I noticed the sockets were reading a short to ground.  I pulled the CT from the ground and the sockets aren't showing a short anymore. The short was to the CT.  I haven't pulled the heater wires from the sockets yet. 

I did try to power up first with everything hooked up and the main fuse blew.  I'm not sure how to troubleshoot that if the secondaries shorting to ground is the normal condition. 
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cmoore
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2009, 04:48:11 AM »

I don't know where I was getting MM from either.  I am 50 years old and my eyes are failing me I guess.   But yes, your heaters are fine.  Your secondaries sound like pretty normal numbers also.  It is pretty rare for a new PT to be bad, it happens but not very often.  Does the fuse blow with the power tubes out of their sockets, did you double check the fuse value?
Good Luck
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hywelg
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2009, 10:02:46 AM »

I read on metroamp forum that the secondaries shouldn't have a short to ground, and a short indicated a bad PT.   
 

But bear in mind the difference between a short to ground and 1-2 ohms is not that much and you need a good meter to read those sort of numbers. A cheap meter will give you the wrong answers .
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fpaul
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2009, 01:16:42 PM »

No problem hired hand. I'm 51 so I understand.  I spend half my time wearing  magnifying glasses on my head.  I've mostly worked with DC and continuity to ground is always bad.  I know AC is different and I'm reading accross a coil of wire with taps but I still was guessing the resistance would be higher.

I haven't installed tubes yet.  Would it hurt the PT to power up with the secondaries disconnected and carefully measure the heater outputs?  If I could just get partial functionally it would be encouraging.  I'll also go through and double check all the wiring.  I have an upper end radio shack meter; wasn't real cheap but probably not the best either.  A friend of mine had one of these amps 25 years ago and I've wanted one ever since.  It was a 50 w without a master, not sure if it was JMP or JTM though.
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cmoore
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2009, 04:22:19 PM »

I did not realize where you were at in the build process.  If you do not even have the secondaries hooked up and you are blowing the mains fuse, you must have something wired wrong somewhere.  It will not hurt your PT to power it up the way it is, just make sure any secondary wires are isolated/taped/protected from shorting to anything.  If your heaters are functioning properly, I would suggest taking a breather and closely double checking all of you connections against the schematic/layout.  Schematics are free and easy to print, don't be afraid to use a pen or highlighter to mark each connection on paper as you verify them and any component polarity/values.
Good Luck
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fpaul
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 04:24:08 AM »

My problem was the indicator light.  It may be the wrong type, I'm not sure.  I've been getting parts all over the place to keep the cost down.  I found R.G. Keens tube amp debugging page and followed the instructions, PT tested out fine.  Hooked everything back up except the indicator light and voltages seem ok.  Just installed preamp tubes and they are glowing.  Still need to install output tubes and set bias but feeling much better about it now.

I appreciate the help.  I would never attempt this without resources like this.
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fpaul
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 12:31:29 PM »

Amp is working now!  Had one more little hiccup; I had the output primaries switched.  I had guessed right but somehow managed to do it wrong anyway.  When I went off standby both output tubes turned into  blue sparklers.  It was kind of cool looking actually for the one second it took me to switch it off.  I switched the wires and everything works perfectly.  Has a little more hum that I would like but still acceptable.  I'll try auditioning preamp tubes, Larry grounding, cleaning up the wiring etc after I get it broken in.  Need to get a proper speaker cabinet, install LAR/MAR, etc, will be tweaking this thing for years but that's why I built it.
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fpaul
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2009, 12:04:22 AM »

I case anyone is following this I had the indicator light wired wrong, got it working now.  Funny that I can build a tube amp but can't wire a light bulb Smiley.  Installed the LAR/MAR PPIMV also.  Man, I love this this amp!  Can't stop playing it.
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