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Author Topic: A few noob questions....  (Read 13420 times)
timeforheroes
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« on: February 28, 2008, 11:04:34 AM »
hello ceriatoners!
         I recently found out about ceriatone....i think that it is a great idea!   absolutely fantastic.  I am a DIY kind of guy....so, naturally, i would like to build an amp.   
         did any of you build your ceriatone amps?   can you please describe what i would need to do to get this project started...for instance, i dont know if i should buy a complete kit, a board  etc....
        also, what mechanical skills and tools do i need to successfully assemble one of these?
       

I hope i dont sound to stupid...i appreciate the help....THANK YOU in advance
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Joisey
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2008, 01:06:59 PM »
Plenty of guys have built their own.  Check out all the different amp sections of this forum and find the guys that have built and ask them questions.  There are guys here with skills and they can point you to more resources than you thought possible.  This forum isn't highly trafficed so don't get discouraged. 
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Mark From Hawaii
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2008, 11:30:02 PM »
Hi - I'm a noob here too but I've done my fair share of electronic projects, but have not actually built a tube amp from scratch or a kit.  Looking at the ceriatone website, it seems that you can either buy all the parts in kit form (chassis, resistors, caps, trannies, pots, sockets and tubes - I think Nik uses JJs) and then have at it if you want to go that route.  Or you can substitute your own preferred components.  From my limited amp experience (rebiasing and replacing filter caps) you'll need at the minimum:

a soldering iron with solder
a wire cutter/stripper
a multi-meter (this helps, especially if you have a hard time reading resistor color codes)
screw driver
nut driver or adjustable wrench

I'm not good at wood-working so if you want to know about dove-tail joints on 3-ply birch cabinets and grill cloth installation, someone else here can probably help.   Wink

Nik actually provides the component layout on the ceriatone website for each amp circuit.  If you're not familiar with amp circuits, it's a little tricky to figure out the connections to the output transformer secondary and primary so you should do a careful study of the circuit before you dig in.  You may want to get one of the many reference books out there like Aspen Pitman's Tube Amp book so that you can get acquainted with the basic topology of tube amps - from preamp tone stack to output tubes to DC rectifier-power supply to output transformer.  Always keep in mind that the typical power stage voltages are quite high and lethal - around 200 to 400 volts!  Once the amp is energized, the capacitors can hold charge even with the power off so that's another safety issue to be aware of.  When the amp is complete in terms of component installation, you'll have to adjust the bias to the output tubes if the amp is Class A/B push-pull.  Weber has a nice biasing tool that fits in the output tube socket and works with a multi-meter.  It's much simpler to bias this way than to use an oscilloscope to check crossover distortion levels.

Sounds daunting doesn't it?  Don't be discouraged - read up as much as you can on tube amps and learn simple electronic trouble-shooting techniques (e.g., how to read open and short-circuits, how to read voltage and resistances, etc.).  Also get that soldering iron and practice soldering.

Good luck and cheers!   Grin
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ChrisL
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« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2008, 12:03:46 AM »
Quote from: timeforheroes on February 28, 2008, 11:04:34 AM
hello ceriatoners!
         I recently found out about ceriatone....i think that it is a great idea!   absolutely fantastic.  I am a DIY kind of guy....so, naturally, i would like to build an amp.   
         did any of you build your ceriatone amps?   can you please describe what i would need to do to get this project started...for instance, i dont know if i should buy a complete kit, a board  etc....
        also, what mechanical skills and tools do i need to successfully assemble one of these?
       

I hope i dont sound to stupid...i appreciate the help....THANK YOU in advance




I would say just jump in.  I used to build from scratch sourcing all the parts, drilling chassis etc..but with todays kit suppliers those days are long gone.  I think personally the most gratifying and educational means of building an amp is from the "bag-o-parts" kit but do remember that Nik doesn't supply anything other than a component layout so you are on your own.  There are however a number of really great amp building sites out there with friendly and helpful members should you run into problems.  

When you jump in...don't jump in the deep end.  An Overtone or DC30 from a bag-o-bits is a serious undertaking.  On the other hand, don't build something you aren't going to get satisfaction from.  Champs are a cool little amp but the level of difficulty in a 5E3 or 18watter isn't all that much more involved.  

Do your homework.  Once you flip that power switch the beast that you just built can bite you and at worst outright kill you.  

To prepare....Keep asking a lot of questions...nothing is ever stupid...well, within reason I guess...lol.  People are busy so if you have questions, be specific and to the point.

Read, study, read, study, read.  

The most important tid bit is be prepared for the fact that you will become addicted to amp building and Nik is a great guy to give you that next "hit"...lol.  BTW, solder fumes contain THC....yaaaahh.

Cheers,

Chris
 
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ChrisL
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« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2008, 12:06:59 AM »
Mark and I posted at the same time...hence some overlap.  A very kind and detailed post Mark.
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eri77
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« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2008, 07:55:49 AM »
We all Have to remember how lethal valve amps can be, I would strongly advise that you try to do a Electrical safety course of some kind, and always remember if you do get a shock GO AND GET A MEDICAL CHECK
I don't mean to be morbid but a Friend of mine died a week after having a shock
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 08:09:52 AM by eri77 » Logged
Mark From Hawaii
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2008, 03:58:17 AM »
Good advice eri77.

I forgot to mention that a pair of needlenose pliers is also a good tool to have for amp projects.  And if you can find one of those spring-loaded de-solderers - that would be useful as well.
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timeforheroes
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2008, 08:13:48 AM »
Thanks for all of the advice guys.  I went out and bought a soldering iron, wire strippers/cutters, some 60/40 rosin solder (though i hear that 63/37 is better?), found other handy tools laying around. 
I practiced some soldering just for fun.  i used some old circuit boards.  it seemed pretty easy.  then i tried to solder two wires together and found it very difficult.  i also tried soldering a ground wire to a trem claw and found that very hard as well...Basically, the solder seemed very gloppy, and it just sort of mushed around....(does that make any sense?)  do i need to get the parts hotter?   


Also, i plan on buying an amp kit this summer...i have to save up because i have a guitar project i need to finish first.


I figured in the mean time, maybe i could practice on my own tube amp, I need some new tubes anyways...but, my research has left me terrified!!!  what is the most correct method of draining the capacitors.   I saw the tool from webervst.com, should i just buy that?  the more i research this one, the more confused i get...

                                                                   Thank you very much,
                                                                                    Timeforheroes
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timeforheroes
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2008, 08:18:00 AM »
Quote from: eri77 on February 29, 2008, 07:55:49 AM
We all Have to remember how lethal valve amps can be, I would strongly advise that you try to do a Electrical safety course of some kind, and always remember if you do get a shock GO AND GET A MEDICAL CHECK
I don't mean to be morbid but a Friend of mine died a week after having a shock


Very good advice.  i hope to avoid any hazardous situations by learning from more experienced  individuals...
   I am very sorry to hear about your friend.
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Mark From Hawaii
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2008, 11:35:00 PM »
Quote from: timeforheroes on March 06, 2008, 08:13:48 AM
Thanks for all of the advice guys.  I went out and bought a soldering iron, wire strippers/cutters, some 60/40 rosin solder (though i hear that 63/37 is better?), found other handy tools laying around. 
I practiced some soldering just for fun.  i used some old circuit boards.  it seemed pretty easy.  then i tried to solder two wires together and found it very difficult.  i also tried soldering a ground wire to a trem claw and found that very hard as well...Basically, the solder seemed very gloppy, and it just sort of mushed around....(does that make any sense?)  do i need to get the parts hotter?   

Hi timeforheroes,

What kind of soldering tip are you using?  I prefer the conical pointed type.  First thing you should do to a new tip is to melt some solder with the tip and carefully roll it around so that it forms a thin layer - the process is called "tinning" and is supposed to help heat flow between the tip and the soldered joint.  Soldered joints should be at a good mechanical connection point.  So if you are trying to solder 2 wires together, the conductors should be twisted together first.  Proper technique is to twist both conductors - not one over the other.  If practical, apply the solder to the joint and then heat with the tip to melt - not on the tip and then drop it on the joint.  I know, sometimes this is impossible, especially if you are trying to replace a component.  A good resource for proper soldering techniques:

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/solder.htm

Cheers!  Grin
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timeforheroes
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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2008, 03:55:25 AM »
Thanks for the tips....I bought some different solder.  its a little thicker and it is the 63/37.  I seems to melt a lot easier and i Solder doesnt seem to melt up so fast!   i solder a input jack and it looked great. it was shiny and even and all that stuff.   but then i tried to re-solder the ground wire to the trem claw.  i just can't seem to get it.  i think that it is because  the plate is so thick. ...
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eri77
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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2008, 07:10:37 AM »

Hello timeforheroes,
If you have a local electronics store (not big chain type, where they are 15 year olds with a after school job) but the type that respect your business, why don't you go down there buy a few small items and ask if they can give you a soldering lesson, if they are worth going to, they will help, just don't ask when their busy Smiley-Josh
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rahimiiii
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2008, 08:38:35 PM »
As for soldering trem claw to a ground wire, you need a pretty hot iron (40 watt or so) and I bought some solder that says its for soldering to stainless steel, it works pretty good once I heat up the claw pretty good and it takes less than 5 minutes. Regular 40/60 rosin core solder works too. I heard acid flux solder is better for something like this (which I suspect is what this stainless steel solder is) but people also said that acid flux isn't good for electrical connections... I don't know I've been using this stuff and hasn't had problems.

If you want to build an amp from Kit#2 start with Fenders, they seem pretty simple. However it seems the price difference between 2 and 3 is dependent on the complexity of the amp, that means an overtone special is 300 dollars more while a Fender bassman is only 60 bucks more. Just be careful and make sure you print out the diagram (and make sure they are correct) on a large sheet of paper (A3 or above) so you can have it with you for references. Print in color, it really helps! I had a print shop print me a large copy of the layout and laminated it so I can plan modifications.
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rachelle amps
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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2008, 06:36:55 PM »
Timeforheros:

Check out my blogs. I go through two entire builds. It's not really a step by step but should be helpful.

Joe
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eri77
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2008, 08:15:51 AM »
Quote from: rachelle amps on April 07, 2008, 06:36:55 PM
Timeforheros:

Check out my blogs. I go through two entire builds. It's not really a step by step but should be helpful.

Joe



Highly recommended- to all, Joe is a legend to all newbies Smiley
Its great to see you back Cheesy
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