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Author Topic: Overtone Recording Preamp  (Read 14012 times)
yosemitespam
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« on: January 13, 2010, 02:55:29 AM »

So many people would love a Class D type, all tube, rackmount preamp. One with nice recording features:

1) stereo returns in the effects loop (mono send)
2) good speaker emulation on the REC out (stereo)
3) seperate MAIN OUT (no emulation)

4 to 5 12AX7s should cover all the features.  No power tubes or huge OT needed.

The world is your oyster Nik!
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JD0x0
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 03:45:42 AM »

the overtone 5 watt SE is supposed to be similar to what you want, it's a 5 watt amp with seperate standby for power and preamp sections so it can be used as a preamp
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yosemitespam
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 05:15:20 PM »

the overtone 5 watt SE is supposed to be similar to what you want, it's a 5 watt amp with seperate standby for power and preamp sections so it can be used as a preamp

I had a dedicated preamp in mind though, no power amp section, no big OT.

Something with stereo returns and stereo record outs, with speaker emulation. Boogie and ENGL have such units. They've been making them for a very long time too.

Preamps fell out of favor after the 1990s. I still have no idea why. Many companies, like Matchless, Soldano, even crappy Marshall made preamps back then.
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yosemitespam
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2010, 05:46:40 PM »

the overtone 5 watt SE is supposed to be similar to what you want, it's a 5 watt amp with seperate standby for power and preamp sections so it can be used as a preamp

Actually, I had something like these in mind:

http://www.voodoolab.com/preamp.htm

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Out_of%20_Production/Formula/formula.html
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Nigel T.
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 09:11:56 AM »

I'd be interested in a rack mountable Pre Amp in the Dumble style.

@ JD0x0: What is "the overtone 5 watt SE"?

Thanks.
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wyatt
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 09:55:50 AM »

Would seem effects return and speaker emulation built into a preamp would be over zealous. not when there are deidactae speaker emulators that can be used with several rack pieces.
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JD0x0
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 08:06:29 PM »

I'd be interested in a rack mountable Pre Amp in the Dumble style.

@ JD0x0: What is "the overtone 5 watt SE"?

Thanks.

5 watt single ended overtone. from what i know it's going to be a simple non-HRM Overtone without the footswitch (just a toggle) theres a posibillity Nik is adding seperate preamp and power amp standbys. I believe there will not be an FET board (not many use it anyway) and i was talking with Nik about adding a bias switch so 6v6's 6L6's or El34, 6550/KT88's can be used to change the tone and  power a  bit
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yosemitespam
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2010, 01:35:43 AM »

Would seem effects return and speaker emulation built into a preamp would be over zealous. not when there are deidactae speaker emulators that can be used with several rack pieces.

The following both have stereo buffered returns and speaker emulation, and are a single rack space high:

http://www.voodoolab.com/preamp.htm

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Out_of%20_Production/Formula/formula.html

Considering PTP wiring, 2 rack spaces high would be acceptable.

 I don't see what the big deal is. Other companies have been making such for decades.

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wyatt
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2010, 05:47:00 PM »

Ceriatone isn't exactly Marshall, Mesa and Voodoo.  You are listing all PCB based preamps that took a long time to deign and layout by a dedicated staff of amp designers.  The PCB layouts themselves probably went through months of revisions for minimal noise.  Ceriatone makes straightforward, basic amp clones.  None to complicated because they have to be turned around in a reasonable time by a small staff, most of which are assemblers. 

It would be easy, however, to scratch build a ODS/OTS preamp, sans power in a turretboard setup, and then run it out.  To start working with parallel returns and speaker emulation is wasting time and money on developing for complicated issues that can better be handled by outboard equipment.  If you went stereo returns, it means you will be using stereo rack effects, why bother with the superfluous extra step of sending it back to the preamp for nothing more than the speaker emulation, which is the only thing that would come after an effects loop.  Let the effects processor handle the emulation or a dedicated speaker emulator which would allow a lot more options that could be hard wired into a OTS preamp.  The point behind rack systems being modular is to mix and match the best tools for each job.  A pro setup will use preamps, then effects, then a speaker emulator (software or hardware) for recording or a power amp for live performance.

If you can find the right tool, just build it yourself, the resources for the preamp and parts are easily available, just stop before you reach the PI, and quit whining for your own highly specialized swiss army knife.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 05:58:32 PM by wyatt » Logged
yosemitespam
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2010, 11:59:06 PM »


If you can find the right tool, just build it yourself, the resources for the preamp and parts are easily available, just stop before you reach the PI, and quit whining for your own highly specialized swiss army knife.

Wow that makes so much senseless. I just showed you 2 commercially available PREAMPs with stereo returns. VooDoo Labs isn't a big company, yet they do it.

Apparently there's many people in this world who need swiss army knives. City kids wouldn't know. They see as far as their block.

Another solution is to make a LINE OUT taken from the speaker output, using the speaker itself as "emulation".  That in turn would feed a stereo processor. Many companies do this, including a very good one on a Boogie Mark IV.

You see, people who haven't been worshipping Howard Dumble for 30 years are somewhat surprized at the primitive nature of his amps. It's like it's 1980, all over again.  Chair Dance
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JD0x0
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2010, 04:11:08 AM »

Ceriatone doesnt do complex PCB designs like that dude. If Nik were to make a OTS preamp it'd be a simple 1 input, 1 output, no fx loop, basic OTS tonestack design.

Adding all those features would be too complicated. Nik mostly builds amps that are based off vintage designs. Basicly all pretty simple designs the OTS being the most complicated.

If Nik could even add those features you want he'd have to make the price much higher, where you'd probably just be better off with a mesa or similar preamp, if youre looking for Dumble tones you gotta stick with the original design, if you want to get close, consider modifing a mesa preamp

the early boogies (mark I) were pretty much ripoffs of howard's amps
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wyatt
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 04:46:25 AM »


If you can find the right tool, just build it yourself, the resources for the preamp and parts are easily available, just stop before you reach the PI, and quit whining for your own highly specialized swiss army knife.

Wow that makes so much senseless. I just showed you 2 commercially available PREAMPs with stereo returns. VooDoo Labs isn't a big company, yet they do it.

Apparently there's many people in this world who need swiss army knives. City kids wouldn't know. They see as far as their block.

Another solution is to make a LINE OUT taken from the speaker output, using the speaker itself as "emulation".  That in turn would feed a stereo processor. Many companies do this, including a very good one on a Boogie Mark IV.

You see, people who haven't been worshipping Howard Dumble for 30 years are somewhat surprized at the primitive nature of his amps. It's like it's 1980, all over again.  Chair Dance

You truly are as ignorant, as clueless and as tunnel-visioned as you seem.

Good luck.  Nik is too busy to offer a AB763 Fender because they take too long to build, I'm sure he'll rush right into designing superfluous options into your dream preamp.  I'm sure he'll have a a prototyped PCB for you in a couple of years.

You have offered your suggestion and you have mindless, stubbornly ignored all the great reasons why what you ask isn't worth making.  By now you are just trolling.  So, until you learn something about building and designing amps, or at least try and build on of Nik's kits, why don't you actually wait until you have a real problem or (haha) solution.  "D Class?"  Hilariously ignorant.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 04:52:46 AM by wyatt » Logged
yosemitespam
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2010, 05:13:10 AM »


If you can find the right tool, just build it yourself, the resources for the preamp and parts are easily available, just stop before you reach the PI, and quit whining for your own highly specialized swiss army knife.

Wow that makes so much senseless. I just showed you 2 commercially available PREAMPs with stereo returns. VooDoo Labs isn't a big company, yet they do it.

Apparently there's many people in this world who need swiss army knives. City kids wouldn't know. They see as far as their block.

Another solution is to make a LINE OUT taken from the speaker output, using the speaker itself as "emulation".  That in turn would feed a stereo processor. Many companies do this, including a very good one on a Boogie Mark IV.

You see, people who haven't been worshipping Howard Dumble for 30 years are somewhat surprized at the primitive nature of his amps. It's like it's 1980, all over again.  Chair Dance

You truly are as ignorant, as clueless and as tunnel-visioned as you seem.

Good luck.  Nik is too busy to offer a AB763 Fender because they take too long to build, I'm sure he'll rush right into designing superfluous options into your dream preamp.  I'm sure he'll have a a prototyped PCB for you in a couple of years.

You have offered your suggestion and you have mindless, stubbornly ignored all the great reasons why what you ask isn't worth making.  By now you are just trolling.  So, until you learn something about building and designing amps, or at least try and build on of Nik's kits, why don't you actually wait until you have a real problem or (haha) solution.  "D Class?"  Hilariously ignorant.

You  strike me as someone who wouldn't know Pulse Width Modulation from a Permanently Withered Moron. You might be able to describe the difference  between a non-inverting vs an inverting amplifier stage. The concept of a virtual ground might be pushing things however.

An AB763 too long to build you say? Geez, I better forget about the Bright Switch for both  channels. A capacitor and switch might take years to add.

Like it's 1980 all over again........, er, ah, 1965 for a DRRI.
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Nigel T.
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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2010, 09:54:59 AM »

I'd be interested in a rack mountable Pre Amp in the Dumble style.

@ JD0x0: What is "the overtone 5 watt SE"?

Thanks.

5 watt single ended overtone. from what i know it's going to be a simple non-HRM Overtone without the footswitch (just a toggle) theres a posibillity Nik is adding seperate preamp and power amp standbys. I believe there will not be an FET board (not many use it anyway) and i was talking with Nik about adding a bias switch so 6v6's 6L6's or El34, 6550/KT88's can be used to change the tone and  power a  bit
I gather from your post that it still has to be released? I don't see it in the Overtone section at Ceriatone at least...
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JD0x0
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2010, 08:12:50 PM »



You  strike me as someone who wouldn't know Pulse Width Modulation from a Permanently Withered Moron. You might be able to describe the difference  between a non-inverting vs an inverting amplifier stage. The concept of a virtual ground might be pushing things however.

An AB763 too long to build you say? Geez, I better forget about the Bright Switch for both  channels. A capacitor and switch might take years to add.

Like it's 1980 all over again........, er, ah, 1965 for a DRRI.

You are ignorant sir. amps take hours to build by hand. This isnt a PCB fender that a robot solders together in 30 seconds it's a handmade amp that is carefully constructed. I think you should build an amp before you talk shit. If you had, you'd know how hard it would be to implement the features you want and you'd know how long it'd take, and that the amp would need to be about the size of a small car if you wired it all PCB like Nik does all his amps.
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