Ceriatone Forum

This seems like a good place to ask some questions.  I am assembling a Rock it! and am stumped with a couple of things on the layout. I am pretty deep into the project and need a bit of direction.
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz308/dmac252/Ceriatone%20Rocket/RockItCeriatone-question-1_zps89e898c7.jpg)
here is layout drawing with a couple of things circled.
Basically I don't understand where the other end of the connections go

Letter X
Letter Y
F1
F2
C1
C2

I guess my basic questions for example are do all the F1 terminals get bridged together including from the AX7 sockets to the EL84 sockets.  do all the same lettered terminals get wired together C1-C1, C2-C2 etc.

Still lost with the X & Y wire from the prewired board

Okay, I'm going to start off with a sentence, and it's not meant to be mean or derogatory.

You may be in over your head.

Much of what you are asking about is the rudimentary basics of amp building and if you are having trouble comprehending the filament wiring, you are probably going to run into some much larger issues. Still, it's best you ask these questions and seek help instead of just forging on.

H1/F1 and H2/F2 is the 6.3 volt filament supply (also known as heater supply).

Let's look at this picture.
(http://www.ceriatone.com/images/completeAmpsPic/RockIt/fb_all2B.jpg)

To the left, you'll see a twisted pair of brown wires, that is the filament windings of the power transformer, that is what Nik marked as H1 and H2 on the layout. It doesn't matter at this point which is which, it's AC voltage just connect one to pin 4 and one to pin 5.

Now, at this point, it DOES matter which is which. Note the twisted black and red wires that run between ALL the tube sockets. These are F1 and F2. They are different colors so you don't get them confused. Connect the RED F1 wire to all the pin 4 of all the EL84. And then run it to pin 4 of all the 12AX7 tube sockets (pins 4 and 5 are jumpered, so you can connect to either on the socket). Connect the BLACK F2 wire to pin 5 on all the EL894 sockets and then to pin 9 on all the 12AX7 sockets.

These wires are all twisted because they need to remain parallel to one another to reduce noise, so the traditional to twist the wires together so they are always running in exactly the same direction. These wired carry AC current, so you want to steer them away from signal wires as much as possible. And when you get wiring up tube sockets, the other wires should be perpendicular to the other wires on one plane or another when possible.

C1 connects to C1 and C2 connects to C2.

The Hot/Line voltage runs from the Line pin of the power socket to the fuse than the switch (wire C1).

The Neutral voltage wire runs from the Neutral pin of the power socket to the switch (wire C2)

X and Y connect to the 1.5K ohm resistors connected to pin 2 of the middle EL84. You'll find them almost directly beneath the X and Y you circled on the turret-board, between the turret board and the tubes.

Other issues you may run into...
HT=High Tension/High Voltage from the power transformer.
CT=Center taps of the power transformer, these go to Ground.

My advice, before you get much further, is to step back and research a lot more on tube amp construction and why we build them the way we do. There are instructions online for things like the Metro Plexi Kits (on Metro Amps forum) and the Tube Depot 5E3 and Marshall 18-watter kits (at their site) that may not be for the Rock-It/Rocket, but will great advice and instruction on the order of the build and important details not to overlook.

EDIT Looks like Wyatt and I were both posting at the same time. So yeah what he said



Yes , C1 wire jumps to the C1 which is the hot 120v
C2 from switch wire goes to C2 neutral at IEC connector

X wire that you circled goes to the X resistor that you did not circle just above the 2 middle preamp tubes on the layout.
Y same as above. Rather than making a floating connection to the resistors I would add a terminal strip right at the pre tubes to make the connections but it is not necessary.

H1 and H2 is your heater circuit, these 2 wires should be twisted together than ran to V1 ( the first preamp tube ) labeled H1 and H2 then the same wires jumper to each tube where it is labeled F1 and F2 ( F stands for Filament, just another name for the heater ckt ) If you use 2 different color wires for example red and black you will want to land all the reds on say H1- F1 on all of the tubes, then all the blacks on H2-F2 on all the tubes.

Go to the ceriatone website and check out the pics of completed amps for examples on the heater circuit as well as any other wiring you may need to doublecheck

Hope that all makes sense

Todd

I want to thank you both for you expert advise & instructions, Although not an amp builder I am quite up to the task.  I could not for the life of me find the other  X&Y on the diagram now that you have pointed them out I can't imagine how I did not see them.  You guys have expertly validate my assumptions. I feel much better moving along with the project without just assuming my my logic was correct. you may have  answered some question I didn't even ask yet  I will post photos when I am completed.

Thanks again for the help, you guys are the best

DM

Nearly done with the project and I am Just wiring up the transformers and I have a question on the layout. My transformer has 2 black wires for the 120v's one one goes to one side of the switch below C1. The other side of the switch below C2 is connected to a wire labeled  "0" that does not correlate to wires labeled on my transformer   Where would the other black 120v from the transformer go.


Layout Drawing = http://www.ceriatone.com/images/layoutPic/tWCloneLayout/RockItCeriatone.jpg
Transformer = http://www.rjguitars.net/Digital_Images/HTS-5199.jpg

any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
DM

One black wire from the transformer will go to the middle lug of the switch just below C1, the other black wire from the transformer will go to the middle lug of the switch just below C2 on the layout. The MOV is connected at both of the same lugs



Todd

Todd, thank you very much

   
Well finished my Rock it build yesterday and cranket it up this morning. Already love it. except for one bad solder joint on F2 the build was smooth Thanks to those that gave advise and sanity checked those things I did not understand.  Especially Nik. 

I have a functional question regarding the HT select switch what effect does/should it have on the sound if any by selecting  the 290 or 260. Although I installed a Heyboer 5199 PT which is 300-260-0-260-300

IMHO, it's kinda a pointless switch.

The differences are relatively subtle...the amp will be stiffer, with higher headroom on the higher HT voltage, the tubes will also run hotter. But chances are it's something that you would only notice in an A/B test; if you walk into the room and turn the amp on, you probably couldn't tell which setting it is on.

I had a similar switch on a 5E3 because I had to two HT voltages to choose from, in the end, I realized it was kinda a useless feature and wired in the lower voltage permanently.

Yea, I will probably do similar and just run at 260. I think that is where the rocket spec is and with summer coming no sense heating up the room any more than i have to :-)

Thought i would share a coupe of finished photos

Sounds fantistic

That being said i a noticing a low freq hum even when nothing is pluggeg into the input jack.

Anyone have any thoughts

As i stated i used Heyboer trannys. I had to bore the chassis access hole larger since all of the PT wiring is on one side. Also the wire gauge is pretty heavy and tough to manipulate, but got it all in there.

(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz308/dmac252/Ceriatone%20Rocket/IMG_2252_zpsa85a82d3.jpg)

(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz308/dmac252/Ceriatone%20Rocket/IMG_2246-Copy_zpsf8175e1c.jpg)

Incredibly difficult to diagnose hum issues over a forum.

Some suggestions, in no particular order.

Check grounds, reflow any suspicious solder joints.

Those PT leads and CT's are crossing right over the OT leads, trying separating them as well as you can.

Using a bamboo chopstick (or wooden dowel...something non-conductive), try rearranging the leads to the tube sockets to reduce noise.

Understood,
But it helps to get someone in the know to comment. I wasn't sure how sensitive the amp was to wire routing The Heyboer wires are tougher to manage but I will move them and see what happens.. Maybe I will consider alternate Power transformer

Thanks

Another thing i did notice is that the wire used in photo from the Ceriatone site appears to be a thinner gauge then the wire i used.. Especially the tube socket bridging, Don't really know if that is true but it seems that way in the photo. Does it matter regarding wire gauge?

I can't see how.

And I doubt it's the PT used, you could try and flip the OT to use the tear grommet instead of the one in the middle, but that's a shot in the dark. i would try and aee if you can isolate the location of the problem first and than start changing things.

Makes sence, trouble shootint 101,,  off I go

Thanks