Agree with you, but we should suggest the simplest solution for archelo to use, who describe himself as a newb. ;-), which is why i suggest the Gill Ayan mod. However,a s always each to his own
I am definitely a newb....no shame in admitting it...
I tried looking for the details on the Gil Ayan mod in ampgarage.com but am not having much luck...a lot of posts to read through. I will keep looking...
Thank you bluesfendermanblues...of course, this generates more stupid questions by me....
Ayan rights...."my mod is .0047uF (4.7 nF) // 4.7Meg. I don't use it in the amp(s) with 100K plate loads, but I did use it in the amps with 220K/150K plate loads."
Questions: 1. Does the OTS use 220K/150K plate loads? Are these the 2 resistors in the latest OTS layout (May08) which are connected to pins 1 and 6 of V2? 2. Do I replace one of the caps on V2 or simply add the .0047uF cap? 3. Do I remove either the 2K2 or the 3K3 resistors in V2 and if so, which one goes....or....do I add the 4.7M resistor and if so where? 4. You could send me to hell whenever you like?
Sorry guys...I hope to speak your language one day but for now, I may need a little hand holding so i don't destroy my amp.
thanks again!
ad 1: yes, 220k/150k ad.2 : dont change anything just add the 47nf cap ad. 3 no dont change those either, the 4,7m goes to input ground before the 220k, which goes into the 100k input trimmer and the 47nf is connected between the other end ogf the 4,7M and the 220k. The trimmer goes to the 68k input grid connection 2 on V2. add4: I don't wan't you to get into trouble with these mods, if you're insecure don't touch anything. The amp contains lethal voltages. Its a great toy for a guitarist, but dangerous to poke around in.
Just turn the trim to 09:00 and let it stay these for at couple of days and try out different settings on input volume and OD gains- you'll be surprised - godd luck
For the blusier side of D-style amps please check these links:
oh dear me!!! thanks for that!! this guys clean tone made me get goosebumps at one point! its like a mix between a blackface and some sort of BB king tone, my god thats hard to beat
can your OTS hit that?
You should check the ampage link, which gives the full story. The amp is NOT clean ;-) Its a Blackface style preamp, with a dumble OD. The amp is switched to OD all the time. The player is Tim Betts (cousin of Dicky Betts, ex. Allman Brothers).
The mods I've presented above - and done to my Overtone - gives the exact same tone. Glad you like the clip
I don't think the assumption that everyone looking at buying a Dumble type amp are looking for a RF sound is accurate. I'd never heard of him until I stumbled on this place after researching the OTS. Personally I'm more interested in the tones created using Dumbles (and D-type amps) by SRV, John Mayer, Matt Schofield, Jo Bonamassa. RF never came into it.
Sorry, didn't mean to rant, just gets to me sometimes how into RF a lot of people on here are...
That said, thanks for the advice on mods to the OTS to tweak it closer to Blackface tones...
Totally Agree....Im much more interested in the blues-man side of the amp rather than the traditional RF sounds...
For the blusier side of D-style amps please check these links:
This is part of a post reply, regarding har to get a great Fenderlike clean sound and great dumblelike OD from the same knob/switch settings.......
I've experimented a lot with my Overtone to resolve this puzzle and have arrived at the following modifications to give me both good (sort of fender) clean sounds and at the same time nice rounded OD tones:
- a 47pf on the (input) volume - change the bright cap to 47 pf - a 39pf on the master volume - increase the snubbers to 2 x 470pf (trims off OD harchness) - add a 2nf+470k trimmer across the OD ratio (od master vol), which lets you reduce the OD treble (ditto) - maybe add a 4,7M resistor and a 47nF capacitor to the input of the OD, just before the 220k (trims off a little bottom fuzziness) And use the following settings with a strat or tele: Volume 7, bright off, mid off, rock on, treble 5, mid 5, bass 5, gain level 7, ratio 5, master any, prec 6,
And the following with a Les Paul Volume 4, bright on, mid off, rock on, treble 6, mid 5, bass 4, gain level 5, ratio 5, master any, prec 7,
As I've said, you'll get both excellent cleans and very nice OD - off course you have to adjust some of the od treble off on the cap/trim mounting on OD ratio control - If the bottom end of the sounds gets too fuzzy in OD mode, you might add the Gill Ayan mod to the OD channel, which is adding a 4,7M resistor and a 47nF capacitor to the input of the OD, just before the 220k.
I use either a single 1x12" Celestion 12G65 or a 2x12" Celestion both with oval hole in the back.
Just remember that John Mayer uses, Overdrive pedals as well as using a TwoRock; - Boss Blues Drive - Tube screamer - etc.
How does an Overtone sound??? does it deliver fender cleans?
You gotta include the guitar and speakers in the answer to that question. Type of speaker has been discussed above, which leaves guitar and pickup to be described.
Guitar/pickup use When I use a strat (fender 54'pickups) or a tele (Vintage RI 52' pickups), I use the neck or bridge pickup for lead and the middle positions (2 +4 on at strat, 2 on a tele) for the rythm sounds.
The middle postions are "scooped" whereas the neck/bridge are more mid boosted, which help me create the sounds I need.
When I play rythm, I don't want the guitar compete with the singer voice or other bandmembers playin solos. The scooped middle positions heop me to take a step back in the sonic picture. Wise versa when engaging a solo I wish to fill in the space that the singer or soloist just obtained, the neck or bridge positions help me fill up a little more space.
This is how I do it, no matter what amp I play !
Overtone versus fender When you buy an Overtone/dumble you're probably inspired by Robben Ford and wish to recreate the RF sounds. And the Overtone does indeed provide thaose sounds. However, I have seen RF playing in Copenhagen a number of times and often he don't even bring his Dumbles overseas, but play rental Fender twins plus a tubescreamer for solo. Fender amps (super, twin, deluxe, bandmaster etc) in general have scooped mids (like the middle positions on your guitar), which tend to lag a little middle for solo. The tubescreamer fills in the space by giving a pronounced midboost. So if you wnat real fender cleans and a RF/dumblesque OD tone use a twin with a tubescreamer
The Dumble/overtones on the other hand has much more middle - they're much more flat frequency wise and not scooped like fenders. Therefore, I find that in order to get a unmodified, regular Overtone to produce fender tones, you have to do engage the bright AND turn the middle down to 1-2 and use the clean channel.
I've experimented a lot with my Overtone to resolve this puzzle and have settled for the following modifications to give me both good (sort of fender) clean sounds and at the same time nice rounded OD tones:
- a 47pf on the (input) volume - change the bright cap to 47 pf - a 39pf on the master volume - increase the snubbers to 2 x 470pf - add a 2nf+470k trimmer across the OD ratio (od master vol), which lets you reduce the OD treble - maybe add a 4,7M resistor and a 47nF capacitor to the input of the OD, just before the 220k
And use the following settings with a strat or tele: Volume 7, bright off, mid off, rock on, treble 5, mid 5, bass 5, gain level 7, ratio 5, master any, prec 6,
And the following with a Les Paul Volume 4, bright on, mid off, rock on, treble 6, mid 5, bass 4, gain level 5, ratio 5, master any, prec 7,
As I've said, you'll get both excellent cleans and very nice OD - off course you have to adjust some of the od treble off on the cap/trim mounting on OD ratio control - If the bottom end of the sounds gets too fuzzy in OD mode, you might add the Gill Ayan mod to the OD channel, which is adding a 4,7M resistor and a 47nF capacitor to the input of the OD, just before the 220k.
I use either a single 1x12" Celestion 12G65 or a 2x12" Celestion both with oval hole in the back.
IMHO this setup in combination with using your pickups as described above will provide great RF/Blues tones.
I don't think the assumption that everyone looking at buying a Dumble type amp are looking for a RF sound is accurate. I'd never heard of him until I stumbled on this place after researching the OTS. Personally I'm more interested in the tones created using Dumbles (and D-type amps) by SRV, John Mayer, Matt Schofield, Jo Bonamassa. RF never came into it.
Sorry, didn't mean to rant, just gets to me sometimes how into RF a lot of people on here are...
That said, thanks for the advice on mods to the OTS to tweak it closer to Blackface tones...
Totally agree with you, and the varity of artists you qoute, proofs that Dumble/OTS amps are truely versatile and not for amateurs - (unlike us ;-))
I think even Robben Ford is tired of attention from people who, almost like cannibals, wants to capture his sound and thereby misses the point of digging his art instead. So Robben Ford gets a lot of attention for all the wrong reasons on these forums. I'm kind of guilty because I often refer to the RF sound
IMHO Robben Ford is insteresting because he has a truely personal voice - both vocally and guitar wise - like Coletrane, Hendrix or Miles.
Thanks gentlemen for listening. Yes it is Gibson L6-S with a scalloped neck. But on the samples I was using a strat with Dimarzio Heavy Blues noiseless pickups. Settings: Bright UP, vol-5 mid-5 bass-6 master-4 pres-5 Speakers are Celestion G12 Century. They are bright speakers. Here are more samples how Overtone does Plexi and Hi gain tones.
How does an Overtone sound??? does it deliver fender cleans?
You gotta include the guitar and speakers in the answer to that question. Type of speaker has been discussed above, which leaves guitar and pickup to be described.
Guitar/pickup use When I use a strat (fender 54'pickups) or a tele (Vintage RI 52' pickups), I use the neck or bridge pickup for lead and the middle positions (2 +4 on at strat, 2 on a tele) for the rythm sounds.
The middle postions are "scooped" whereas the neck/bridge are more mid boosted, which help me create the sounds I need.
When I play rythm, I don't want the guitar compete with the singer voice or other bandmembers playin solos. The scooped middle positions heop me to take a step back in the sonic picture. Wise versa when engaging a solo I wish to fill in the space that the singer or soloist just obtained, the neck or bridge positions help me fill up a little more space.
This is how I do it, no matter what amp I play !
Overtone versus fender When you buy an Overtone/dumble you're probably inspired by Robben Ford and wish to recreate the RF sounds. And the Overtone does indeed provide thaose sounds. However, I have seen RF playing in Copenhagen a number of times and often he don't even bring his Dumbles overseas, but play rental Fender twins plus a tubescreamer for solo. Fender amps (super, twin, deluxe, bandmaster etc) in general have scooped mids (like the middle positions on your guitar), which tend to lag a little middle for solo. The tubescreamer fills in the space by giving a pronounced midboost. So if you wnat real fender cleans and a RF/dumblesque OD tone use a twin with a tubescreamer
The Dumble/overtones on the other hand has much more middle - they're much more flat frequency wise and not scooped like fenders. Therefore, I find that in order to get a unmodified, regular Overtone to produce fender tones, you have to do engage the bright AND turn the middle down to 1-2 and use the clean channel.
I've experimented a lot with my Overtone to resolve this puzzle and have settled for the following modifications to give me both good (sort of fender) clean sounds and at the same time nice rounded OD tones:
- a 47pf on the (input) volume - change the bright cap to 47 pf - a 39pf on the master volume - increase the snubbers to 2 x 470pf - add a 2nf+470k trimmer across the OD ratio (od master vol), which lets you reduce the OD treble - maybe add a 4,7M resistor and a 47nF capacitor to the input of the OD, just before the 220k
And use the following settings with a strat or tele: Volume 7, bright off, mid off, rock on, treble 5, mid 5, bass 5, gain level 7, ratio 5, master any, prec 6,
And the following with a Les Paul Volume 4, bright on, mid off, rock on, treble 6, mid 5, bass 4, gain level 5, ratio 5, master any, prec 7,
As I've said, you'll get both excellent cleans and very nice OD - off course you have to adjust some of the od treble off on the cap/trim mounting on OD ratio control - If the bottom end of the sounds gets too fuzzy in OD mode, you might add the Gill Ayan mod to the OD channel, which is adding a 4,7M resistor and a 47nF capacitor to the input of the OD, just before the 220k.
I use either a single 1x12" Celestion 12G65 or a 2x12" Celestion both with oval hole in the back.
IMHO this setup in combination with using your pickups as described above will provide great RF/Blues tones.
Agree with you, but we should suggest the simplest solution for archelo to use, who describe himself as a newb. ;-), which is why i suggest the Gill Ayan mod. However,a s always each to his own
I am definitely a newb....no shame in admitting it...
I tried looking for the details on the Gil Ayan mod in ampgarage.com but am not having much luck...a lot of posts to read through. I will keep looking...
Agree with you, but we should suggest the simplest solution for archelo to use, who describe himself as a newb. ;-), which is why i suggest the Gill Ayan mod. However,a s always each to his own
[quote/] Just to confirm...the cathode bypass caps are connected to V1 and V2 via pins 8 correct? My OTS should be the newer version with the Zucker mods so they both should be 4.7uF caps. I will check that tonight. [/quote]
yes, pin8 and pin3 [quote/] By "2,2k and 3,3k" are you referring to the resistors installed in parallel with the bypass caps on both V1 and V2? [/quote]
yes, pin3 and pin 8 on V1 AND pin3 and pin 8 on V2
The parts you have listed are all fine, but you still need to answer the basic question: Is your bass issue evident in both clean and OD mode ??
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it's quite easy
