have you checked out ampgarage.com/forum/ ?? that THE place for info regarding Dumble, Trainwreck and other amps ingeneral. This is where ceriatone got a lot of inspiration its own designs.

I Use EL34's in a #183 clone and a HRM.

IMO EL34 are not very different sounding than 6L6 - in a Dumble amp (where you don't tend to drive the power tubes into distortion. Its another story in plexi Marshalls if you drive the power tubes into distortion)

El34s have a firmer bottom end and can therefore seem to have a little less middle.
However, we are talking very minor sound details.

I dont hear a lot of difference between a #183 w. EL34's and a #102 w. 6L6's once the music plays - at rehearsal or gigs.

When I play alone at home, I can hear all kind of tiny minor difference between this or that capacitor/resistor/tube/speaker/cable/pickup/string/pick 

On my first build (which was an OTS) I used a Mercury Mag OT, and Hammond PT and choke.

On all following amps I've used Hammond throughout. They are fairly cheap and sound great. I can't hear a difference between a MM and a Hammond.

Hi PVAB, thanks for the tip.
I Have ordered a brand new EH 12AY7 and is looking at the KCA site.

Tried another GE NOS 12AY7 ...... much better!

Fuller sound even with the added switch in "off" position, which is the same as stock circuit.

I'm really surprised by the variation NOS tubes these days. Are NOS really worth it. Any tips for new 12ay7s??

Hi Tone, funny how different these amps can sound. Maybe these amps need a lot of burn-in time just like the Dumble amps.

What preamp tube are you using in your super amp.

Thanks, but it really annoyed me that this great combo was not voiced for a strat... at least not for playing blues. A 5F4 focus on higher frequencies and has a "hollow" mid register and you have to cranck it to "9" to get a little bit of blues drive. The stock circuit is great for Gibson humbucker guitars, though.

The above mentioned mod makes this a great blues amp simply by "moving" the energy level down a couple of registers, down where a strat lives in blues music.

Dear all,

I have recently build a 5F4 Tweed super clone - very close to stock, using hammond transformers and a chassis from TAD.
Speakers are a pair of Weber 10A125, (which I used to use in a RI Bassman 59 - so they are well played in)

As you probably all know, a 5F4 is a pretty simple and straight forward amp, and it worked flawless at first power up.

However, a 5F4 is one of the more bright tweed amps and is often referred to (on the clone companies websites) as the perfect humbucker amp. I'm a strat player, so what do a guy do?

I searched a lot of forums - this one included - in order to get some tricks to fatten up the tone. Have tried all tricks in the book:

After a lot of experimentation I have arrived at the following fat switch - (BTW I didnt 'invent' this feature, but am only posting to share my personal experience that this is a usefull to mod the tone stack in a 5F4):

Fat switch:
Installed an on-off-on switch with a 500p Mica cap and a 1000p Mica cap - between V1 and V2 below the chassis - that can put none of one of the caps in parallel with the 250p treble cap. It provides you with the following sound options:

Pos 1 (adding a 1000p): sounds like a big fat Tweed Twin 5E8a
Pos 2 (no extra cap): stock 5F4 circuit
Pos 3: (adding a 500p): sounds like a 5E5 pro

Cathode Bias Switch
I have also used the 'ground' switch for cathode bias with a 250 ohm parallel by a 50uF cap - this option sounds very close the sotck fixed bias option.

Paul C mod
Have also tried the Paul C mod, but IMO it didn't do anything for the tone of this amp (same goes for a new build 5E3). Paul C used this mod on a Princeton Reverb, but according the himself never on a tweed: http://www.firebottle.com/fireforum/fireBB.cgi?cfg=dlx&enter=go

Hope this info is usefull to some of the 5F4 cloners out there!

Me too!! 

In Bluesmaster, #102 (RF) and #183

V1: NOS GE 12ax7 JAN (or JJ ECC83s if you want a cheaper alternative)
V2: do
V3: Sovtek 12ax7 LPS

V4 & V5: winged C 6L6 / Winged C EL34B

Very nice looking rig !!!

Great post, but when I hear the term 'alnico' speaker, I think about Jensen speakers in Fender Combo's or Celestion Blue in a Vox AC30 or similar low wattage speakers (15-20w) units that will break up easily and add a little speaker distortion to the tone a la vintage fender tweed amps. 

Your alnico speaker is not a low wattage unit , but according to the WGS home page a 'Drop in replacement for EV™ SRO™ speaker', no wonder it sounds good because it a speaker which is along the lines of the Altec 417 B/C alnico, that Dumble used in the 70's.  so I'm not so surprised it sounds great.

I've cabinets with 2x10 alnico weber (10A125) and a 1x12 alnico Tone Tubby and IMO neither sound great together with ODS amps - unless you engage the 'Deep' (not mid, but deep) switch.

I have an amp setup like the FM - actual a 1:1 copy of the details on Robbens amp as posted on the ampgarage.com where NIK also gets his info.

The brightness in Robbens amp stem from using a 68p cap on the mastervolume. (the effect of the 2.2uf presence cap is minor IMO)
However, you have to regard the amp as part of a SYSTEM, which includes a Dumbleator and a 2290.

When you use a dumblelator (or C-lator) with the amp master volume at 11 o'clock (and use the Dumbleator as mastervolume), the 68p cap actually adds just a tiny bit of treble, just enough to compensate for the - high end loss from using cables to/from the dumblelator). I use two cables both at 180p-200p between the  amp and the dumbleator.

IF you use it without a Dumblelator - it very bright untill you put the master volume on 11-1 o'clock - which would be very loud.

I never use the amp without Dumblelator, so for me its just a great sound.

BTW I don't want to spend 1000-1500 Euro's on a 20 year old 2290 Delay unit, so instead I bought an Intellifex and a Suhr MinimixII in order to run the effect in parallel without losing quality. This is a cheap way to get a great sound for low money.





the I the amp is not that bright compared

I have an old 80s EV12L.

Have tried it a number of times in a ported cabinet...similar to pickmasters snakeskin ditto. However, I find it to be pretty useless for OD .....AT LOWER VOLUMES!  :-)
It better at gig volume.

I have tried a eminence kappa Pro in the cabinet and it has a better OD top end but its perhaps a little dark. The best speaker for The ported cabinet is IMO is a Fane 12L ...it has both great clean tone and great OD tones at ANY volume. And the Fane has a massive bottomend similar to a 4x12. Incredible IMHO.

@Thilo278,

if you already have purchased a 12G65 and a Century you can make a L-pad for the Century in order to take it down 5 dB's: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-Lpad.htm