Nice work!

I just recently acquired a pair of vintage Altec 417-C's and stuck them in a 2/12 open back, sensational sound playing out.  Full, warm, articulate, and very efficient driven by my 50w HRM/C-lator.  They are right up there with my JBL g125's, g135's, and reconed for guitar D123's as faves for the D-clones.

I have not tried that, although a few have.  That tube puts out a lot of current, not as much gain as a 12ax7, so it should drive the power tubes well.    I'm pretty happy with the original tube types in the pre positions, but it's good to hear of positive alternate experiences.

@ the OP

first build???  Amazing!

To me, this is a completely different level of participation and posting, more like an ampgarage forum's topic, done here instead of there for Ceriatone amp owners.  .  This is a giant step in the right direction.  Apparently we DO have enough expertise-related critical mass here...Excellent!

Hi Justie and welcome!  I have played through and have had an HRM for a couple years now.  I have run 6l6 types as well as el34 through it.  It is a wonderfully versatile stage partner, am running a c-lator with mine.  I have enjoyed being able to use the HRM trimmers, the PI trimmer, and the bias trim pot all work together to bring that amp to the kinds of tones where folks actually notice that the guitar sounds nice.  Have to say that I have adjusted the HRM trimmers only twice, am very happy now with that ability.  

Owning a D-clone is a different ride than what most folks have had, so don't be in a hurry to pick something out.  Personally, I spent quite a few hours surfing on youtube for clips, to see if I could come up with any pre purchase impressions to go with model types.  The HRM MK II came out after I had mine built, so have no experience there.  The amp taught me how to be a better guitar player, and had major influence on how I set up my other amps to play through after getting it..

You have it right the second time, Chimp. 

Right now concentrate on your studies and take on an amp oroject that won't tax you as much, +1 on starting small.  It's about the journey, not the destination anyway.  What you like for your tones today will likely be different a few years down the road.  May I suggest that there arre quite a few ways to get sweet, harmonicaslly rich cleans and dirt to sustain through low cost, inexpensive, personally rebuilt vintage amps?

Besides, having a major project like your 100 watt build is going to have an ongoing emotional cost, you won't be able to keep your mind off it enough to really concentrate on your stuidies, because it IS a big deal.   Almost as distracting as a bunch of drunken Sheilas coming into the pub while you're just trying to get an adult beverage. 

Start with something single ended.  Then do a push pull design.  Rebuilding a vintage amp or three is pretty challenging, ande it takes some serious research and experimentation to learn how to make lemonade out of a lemon, it's in that hightest level of learning educators call synthesis! 

I think that after rebuilding three old 60's amps to sound better than they ever did I know much more than before, and the process of sourcing parts for those rebuilds was interesting as well.   But the best skills I learned were how to use that hot soldering iron tip to help remove wire crimped tightly around a connection along with getting skills using solder braid, needle nose pliers to bend, cutting and bending parts just right before trying to put them in, how to make bends and cremps that make it easy to install the parts, these are all best learned by experience on simpler projects IMHO.   If you're good at it, you can sell what you build for at least partial recovery of the costs at least.

!00 watts sounds really cool top read about, have you spent a lot of time playing through a 100 watt tube amp?   You want your amp to help your playing.   It's bad to have to compensate for an overly powerful amp.  These designs are better at lower volumes than most 100 watters, but they stiill run up your power bill more than an 18 watt build will, for example.   

It's not a good idea to go to the amp garage as a Ceriatone owner asking questions about a Ceriatone D-clone, they'd prefer we do it here.  Enough folks over there are upset to where I'd recommend using the search function there first before asking questions, that's part of the rules anyway.  There's a sticky thread over there directed toward  Ceriatone SSS owners, for example.   And we do have a few of the more knowledgeable amp garage forum members here. 

Greg, that was awesome!  And I love the way some AT's sound in some of my favorite amps.  None are Fenders...  

Sorry, I only have old stock ones.   Some of my old British Tungsrams ones have the Mullard tone going on in spades.  Probably the nicest tones can be had out of the Sylvania triple mica, gold print gray plate, the Telefunken, Siemens 6060, Tung Sol blackplate, and RCA blackplate.   The Mul;lard cv4024 is very nice, big bottom and great clarity on top.  That is my fave PI 12at7 type, they are very long lived and very nice sounding.

I'm glad and my ears are glad I spent the money and have them in hand insted of believing what I read. 

And as a final note, huge thanks to Greg again for his careful investigations with DVM!

Glad to hear about the new production KT66 experience.  Which amp? 

12at7 is most definitely NOT clinical and lifeless, depends on the circuit.   Have collected quite a variety of vintage ones, tons of experience with them in 12ax7 positions in single ended and high end PP boutique amps, clean to filthy distortion levels, to the point of being able to make some good recommendations tone wise, just like my collections of 12ax7 and 5751.  Some tube makers exhibit a family tone through different models of their tubes, the 12ax7, 5751, and 12at7 black plates from Raytheon are a perfect example of this.  Experience is the best teacher, not repeated dogma.

Yes and yes. 

If the GE has short plates where the grids sit at right angles to the rest of the plate that is the HAD fave tube right there for V1 and PI positions.  The long plate GE has a nice fat bottom, a strong upper mid spike, and sounds great in low gain clean to "blues dirty" situations.  it is prone to microphonics after a lot of on/off cycles.  In some amps and position, GE 12ax7 longplate is a fave "blues tube"  of mine.

RCA 12ax7 is THE definitive "Fender black and silver face amp tone tube."  They used them as long as RCA kept making them.  There are some tonal differences between RCS 7025 shortplate and RCA 12ax7a/7025 shortplate, they look a lot alike inside but do sound two different ways of wonderful. 

I have done quite a few very nice transactions with John Yeung AKA Eskimofridge on eBay.  Got some of my very best deals ever on 12at7 milspec types from him as well as 12ax7's.  Check out his Canadian made shortplate Philips, right now one of the most creaming deals out there in VOS 12ax7's.  He also seems to get some nice Tung Sol 5881/6l6wgb types too. 

I kinda hate to give away all my my best VOS tube sources over the internet...   But I'm pleased to be helping here.

Hi,

BTW BW, some very nice clips you have shared recently! 

I wanted something that would deliver a really sweet treble within the clean tones, and the Tungsram 12ax7 has one of the sweetest clean tones I have ever heard.  I used the CBS initially in the reverb spots, because they were fairly strong, similar in sounds between them for consistency send and return, and I was not worried about microphonic potential in the reverb positions.  In my amp, reverb is not very audible until I get to 7 on the send and return knobs, I was surprised that there was not more of a strong reverb effect available.  What is there, though, is enough for my needs.  I chose that particular Sylvania 12at7 because of my past experience with that type, have several and they are awesome sounding, very full range.  They work in V1 in amps I want to take the gain down, as long as they are not used in a CF position, that is.  I am familiar with the blackplate Raytheon's tone, and it works well in the PI for me, again, long plate not so much of a problem with microphonics in that position.  Another alternative for V1 would be a Sylvania long blackplate, again, sweet top end and really a beautiful clean tone overall, with more fundamental present in the tone palette than some of the euro tubes.  good for the Fendery American sounds.  I like RCA 7025 long and shortplate, as well as the 12ax7a/7025 shortplate, but the longplate 7025's I tried were too microphonic for V1.  I would have no problem running GE shortplate 12ax7a/7025a in V1 and PI positions, just am happy with what I have in there now.  Hope this helps.

Good call on the speakers....

Yup, it sounds wierd, but the reason that so many advise to use a C-lator is because it's possible to set the main amp's master volume up where you like, and yes, even though it's before the PI, because of the way the C-lator works (thank you HAD!)you can get some surprisingly good tones at small venue volumes.  I was skeptical until I got one.  It also works on loops of other amps of mine similarly to great effect, like my Mesa Maverick.  With that said, I like my 50w OTS better without a c-lator, and my TC Nova pedal works great in the loop with or without C-lator just fine.

Clarifying my previous post about the Weber MASS attenuator, I can use it for the "direct balanced line out" thang with minimal attenuation.  I usually leave the "scrunch down" dial wide open for volume.  The harmonic content from this method going to the board is MUCH more detailed and rich than what comes out of any speaker in my experiences.  I usually end up dialing back gain for both channels a bit, they sound more hairy at slight distortion through the house than if the speakers were mic'ed, due to that tonal detail.   So with some amps playing out I'd use both "lator and Weber MASS for it's balanced line out.  But my OTS sounds best with only the MASS played out because my FX is compatible with the naked loop, and that amp sounds fine at lower volumes with the power tubes I stuck in it.

What the above guys said...but FWIW I have a 100 watt rated Weber MASS.  Good attenuator with some great line out features that I have not seen another attenuator with.  I don't like having my amp miced, this is a better solution for me.