i agree!!! The weber 1265s didn't sound bad, just wasn't the sound for me. i like em, just don't love em with the BM. They sounded great with my sovtek, which is weird cuz it is kinda based on the tweed bassman in a way kinda like the BM, but i think the plexi half of the sovtek is what really shined through with em. My lil Blues Junior sounds good thru em too, just not that the BM, go figure.

 
well, the American Standard Alpha 10-A has a freq response range of 57Hz - 4.5 kHz similar to the Delta Pro 12 A's response of  52Hz - 4.5 khz and the high end doesn't fall off as drastically fast as the Delta Pro 12.  The EV has a more high end response on paper in 7 khz range, but alot of people have said that the emi version is sweeter and less sterile sounding, so who knows. a few guys have said the the EV is dark, too, but i always found them to be neutral, just like the delta 12a'a and 12a pros's. I'm thinking about getting the Delta 12B (16 ohm vresion) so i can mix and match with my 1265's which i had built as 16 ohms, to see how they sound together. the delta's have a sensitivity of 98.3 db and the 1265's are around 97 db so the delta's *shouldn't* drown out the webers too much

Now, the Delta 12a (non Pro) has a freq range of 54hz- 5khz and isn't quite as flat as the 12 pro, but the response drop off in the high end is a little more gradual. If you are looking for a 10 that is kinda like the EV try the Alpha 10

Oh, i would be remiss if i didn't mention that user Tone Control has tested a few speakers with the BM as well and really digs the Celestion Gold in his, I believe.

Did someone say my name? In my opinion for the Bluesmaster the more neutral and high powered the speaker is the better it is. The Bluesmaster has ALOT of bass response and is not as mid heavy as some of the other OTS models and this can make it sound dark and flubby through the wrong speakers. I really liked my weber 1265 alnicos with it for a while, but like everyone else, turning the bass over 3 and using the deep switch was flub city, and the speakers were so middy that i couldn't get a decent scooped fendery sound. So, I threw my ancient Eminence speakers in that I have had in a 4x12 for about a million years and voila! Nice tight bass, scooped mids when I want em, and singing highs, and all very clear!

Turns out my old 12698 Eminence speakers were a custom build for the man who owned the shop I took lessons and bought gear at. He also built speaker cabs and at the time I bought mine, after mowing many lawns, he was building some for Hall and Oates back line. Seems I got four speakers that they use lol. The ones I have are closest to the modern Delta 12A, which is a 400 watt flat response speaker, quite similar to the Delta Pro 12A which was a substitute for the EV12 for years when they were no longer manufactured. I think you can see where I'm going with this...

Long story short, in the BM for its true voice to come out you need a nice neutral speaker that can take a walloping of bass, or if you really like speaker breakup, get something like a weber 12A150 undoped and go for it!

Hope this helps!

Gregg

So, I emailed eminence about the 12698 G1's that i have had since the mid 90's and i recently swapped back into the BM that i really like and found out something interesting. I thought that maybe they were close to the Legend 1258's or 1218's but I got this response:


Hi Gregory,
 
12698 was a custom design that we manufactured to our customer's specifications.  The closest stock model we offer is the Delta-12A.
 
http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Delta_12A
 
 
Regards,
 

Anthony Lucas | Sr. ab Tech
Eminence Speaker LLC>
 P.O. Box 360
 838 Mulberry Pike
 Eminence, KY 40019


Now, the Delta 12A is very similar to the Delta Pro 12A which as some of you may know was used as a substitute foe the EV-12L when they went out of production. The specs between the two are quite similar, with somewhat flat, neutral, and uncolored response. The Pro as a larger magnet similiar to the EV and a lil deeper response, and has been said to be "less sterile" than the EV.

The Delta 12A is $56 US and the The Delta Pro 12A is about $120 US

Certainly food for thought

Gregg

Looks like it "ended" and all the offers he was given he declined.

Nik, did the Brisbane authorities get to the bottom of it?

Gregg

I like my weber 1265's in some situations in my BM, nice and warm and smooth, but more often than not, they end up frustrating me, cuz they aren't quite as sparkly as i would like, and don't take the huge bass output of the BM very well, so i end up sticking my old reliable eminence G1's back in and all is right with the world.

I think most guys like em cuz they are middy and take some of the highs out of the standard OTS amps, i reckon

The C-Lator plugs into the passive loop of the amp. There is no internal connection between the amp and the C-Lator, they will just be mounted into the cab together

Well, my Bluesmaster clean is unmodded and it sounds just like Greg (Bold) and I have described them, and just like erwin's description that i reposted. Tweed Fender Bassman /Early Marshall JTM type sounds with a bit of Blackface that can be dialed in with the bright switch on, the mid boost off, the treble up, and the mid control way down, but you really need a strat or a tele to hear those "classic blackface tones" we all think about like SRV and early Hendrix and guys like that, and for me the c-lator and it's extra bright caps helped too, or an eq pedal set "SRV style" to brinng out the jangle. But really, in my opinion it's mainly about the tweed sound, and it can do sweet clean, boosted clean, PAB boosted clean, preamp cranked dirty, master volume cranked dirty, or anywhere in between and sound awesome doing it, as long as you bear in mind that it is bass heavy, and keep it under control. Depending on which guitar i am using i have to move the bass control around quite a bit, but the majority of the controls stay around the same, with some minor tweaking depending on my mood.

That being said, i have never heard one of the FM's in person, but it is a Skyliner stack which is a lil more classic D-Style, and is supposed to have alot more highs and be more chimey, which if you are looking for a bright sound right out of the box may be the one for you.


I'm not all that familiar with the #183 other than it is clone of Dumble #183, it uses a precision power supply, EL34 tubes, and has some other component changes from the standard OTS, I think it's a Skyliner stack if i recall correctly, but again i'm not sure. I know they sound great, that's all Bold or some of the other guys can chime in with more specs.


***edit i should point out that i normally use Weber 1265 Alnico speakers which are on the warmer side and do roll off/disperse the some of the highs due to their design, so i really have to work to get that blackface "sparkle" out of mine. when i had my old eminence legends in there, they had alot more highs in there and the BF sparkle came through, but they are super loud and VERY punchy in the lows, like organ damage causing, so i took em out. if you had some brighter speakers, like say some bright jensens, weber 12A150's, EV12's, or maybe some nice 10 inch type drivers it would prolly be a different story, IMO just FYI***
Gregg

That's awesome that ya found your magical combo!! Sounds good on your soundclip for sure!

So far in my non HRM BM i'm digging a ribbed Telefunken in V1, a JAN GE 5751 in V2, which further rounds the OD, takes some of the brightness out, and helps a bit with the volume jump that occurs when the HRM is bypassed, and a GT 12AX7R (basically a well tested sovtek 12AX7WA) in V3 with an 8 volt swing between V3a and V3b.
Before that I had an ANOS GE Long Plate from the late 50's in V1, a stock JJ ECC803S in V2 and the GT in V3. Believe it or not, if not for the volume jump and just a hair of harshness, the JJ was my fave for a while ( I had another GE Long plate in V2 for a while as well, but it was just too microphonic, even though it was hand picked by mike from kca), so your choice for JJ's doesn't really surprise me. I actually had all GT's in mine for a week, and they sounded almost perfect, except they were lacking some mids, and with the BM being scooped like it is, it was hard to get things dialed in.

Anyway, sorry for the thread jack, glad you found your sound!!

Gregg

Very Nice! you guys sound great! I miss playing with a band. Ever since i got this job i have 10 years ago i don't have as much time for it...

exactly. Thilo's post showed not much in the way of tonal change.

The c-lator and other buffers main purpose is more about matching the impedance and line levels between the loop and the effect more than anything. with the c-lator, it just so happens that to some people's ears (mine incuded) it warms the tone up a bit and ad a bit of complexity to it. This could be just a perception thing, though. I think this has more to do with being able to turn the master volume(s) up on the amp itself and use the c-lator as an overall master more than anything, but the buffering could have a smoothing effect as well.

Mine had my name, model of the amp, mods, and the build date written on it.

Here's a write up from erwin I believe on another post on different OTS models that discusses the different tonestacks as well


Non Hrm classiq EQ is the oldest style of dumble amp. A bit more rooted in the
raw fenderish tone. This is the amp that made his reputation. This
would be like early Lindley, Browne, Lowell George, the first
incarnation of his amps.
It can sustain like a mofo! It is a singing OD for sure.
Not much compression, very touch sensitive and dynamic....

Second the Non-HRM Skyliner EQ  low plate is a variation of the above. Dumble modded
several of his older amps with a new tone stack he was developing,
know as the skyline eq because it's output viewed on a scope resembled
a city skyline.
It is a little less Fender but still a somewhat lower gain affair. It
has the same gain as the vintage amp but the new EQ is more "signature dumble" and a little less Fender. Improved cleans from th Vintage model.
It still sustains like a mofo, has a bit better string to string definition and is a little more refined in the tone shaping.

Non-HRM Skyliner EQ  high plate is where he went next, same as above but now the
gain staging is not classic fender. It has more headroom, definition, and punch, more lively and responsive cleans, smoother OD, and a small bit of compression, very touch sensitive, lots of sweet singing tones.

HRM Skyliner EQ   HRM stands for
"Hot Rubber Monkey". This is a second tone stack just for the OD
channel. It is more or less a Marshall style tone stack this allows tone
shaping of the OD independent of the cleans.
A real Dumble of this ilk would be called a Skyline HRM. Smooth as silk, goes from clean to mean like no ones biz. Transition
between is amazing. You can pick clean, a bit dirty, grinding, soaring, all
with your hand and all smoothly with definition. No rasp or buzz. Very refined. Gorgeous smooth tones. A little more compression that the above amps but not in a bad way. Very natural. The dynamic response is second to none. This amps feels like it breathes with you after awhile.
Smooth singing overdrive, completely dynamic, never any rasp or buzz, no IM distortion or other uglies.

Blues Master. Think raw early Fender/Marshall
tone on steroids. The tone stack is decidedly bassman territory,
however because of Dumbles many other difference it is far better IMO.
The cleans here are the best cleans I think I have ever heard, dumble
or otherwise. The cleans will sing and sustain!!! The OD is much less smooth and much less compressed than the above amps. It has some early Marshall vibe to it. Boosted cleans with this amp are to die for. The OD is a bit more raw and edgy then some of the other offerings but with boosted cleans you get the smooth side of things and with the OD you have a less polite and refined tone.
Somewhat like the first Dumbles, though different. Lots of punch, sustain and singing but not as smooth as some of the other offerings. This one can be thick and dense too. Not dark and crappy, just "meaty"...
Open clean cleans to mean and a little rude.
Big fat sick blues machine. Lots of character or soul. This amp will try and steal your girl.Like a tuxedo on a cowboy?.... It can play nice but it can still stomp in the dirt.
last is the same as above with the HRM OD tone stack which gives a little more tone shaping and refining in the OD section.





hope this helps!

Gregg

Earlier this week i did some voltage testing with various preamp tubes i the HRM Bypassed Bluesmaster which i will post tomorrow after i finish the last round of testining. I also did some twiddling and fiddling with bias on the power tubes and found that the ideal bias for my rig running the TAD 6L6WGC-STR's at 445 volts is 36.6 mA. Very balanced at that setting, and no farty bass and no honkiness. Seems that these tubes like to be run a lil cooler than 70% to sound their best. I also found that my PI trimmer sounds best with between a 7-8 volt swing between V3a and V3b much more bloom and sustain. very cool. I was very happy. I was running my GE Long Plate in V1, A JJ in V2, and a GT12AX7R (Basically a higher grade sovtek 12AX7WA) in PI and all was right with the world.

And then today...

I installed a ribbed Telefunken in V1 and a JAN GE 5751 in V2 and did some noodling this morning. All i can say is wow! The sound coming out of this thing on the clean channel is amazing now! Much brighter, but that's not all, much more balanced, detailed and focused throughout the frequency range. The highs and upper mids are so much more present i can back the treble and prescence controls back and still have some shimmer, and that's with my dark les paul!

The 5751 in V2 helps with the volume jump caused by bypassing the HRM circuit and also smooths out the OD even further (Bypassing the HRM smooths it out alot). It rounds the tone out quite a bit and just really offers a nice balanced OD tone whether in standard OD, PAB, Mega PAB, or using a Boosta Grande or other clean boost. It makes the amp very very versatile and I can highly recommend the Telefunken for V1 for BM amps, and the combo of the Telefunken in V1 and JAN GE 5751 in V2 for those who have bypassed their HRM tonestack.

I will do some further playing this weekend to get some more impressions, but my intial impressions (harmony central style )  are very positive!!