Agree. I think I decided that having a pure #183 is probably best. I felt bad deciding this since you went to such trouble to post the great directions. I still have everything saved for later inquiry and it's great for anyone else. Plust just good knowledge.

But, once I realized I would really loose what I like about the HRM, I gave it a second thought. I do believe that the EL34 based 183 will be my build with sourcing all the parts myself. Not sure when, but sometime down the road.

@tombba, believe me you're gonna love it. While there are difference between the different design. From what I can hear, they all have a very special thing in common.

Glad to hear you are happy now. No one deserves to have an OTS and not like it.

Was there one thing that really made the difference or was it many things? The O/D is definitely very sensitive to level settings.

So did you make any changes to the amp to use the EL34's?

I agree 100%. I have the HRM 50 w/LNFB mod. I can tell that with the LNFB on it gets much closer to the traditional D-style sound. Don't tell anybody, but with the LNFB on the clean channel with a Xotic BB preamp in front, I can get it to sound almost identical to a regular OTS. 

Yes definitely check the fuses. The pilot light will stay lit even if the HT fuse is blown. Also, I had to go with a Slo Blo in the HT. My layout calls for a Fast Blo, but it was just too sensitive. I asked Nik about this and he said it was OK. I think it has to do with the maker of the fuse. The "fast blo" that came with the kit had a much larger filament. All the ones I can find in the US have a very thin filament in comparison.

Whoa! THANKS for that! That's great. I need to figure a way to convince my wife to let me order the parts for a D-lator and I'll just put these parts in with it. She actually said she tought is sounded better with the Klein, so I was just telling her at dinner it will be even better with a D-lator. Although, she really has no idea what I'm talking about.

I actually was looking on Doug's Tubes at NOS. Right now I have Tung Sol RI all preamps with a balanced one in V3. & TAD 6L6 WGC STR's. Looks like the JAN GE's are hard to come by.

I don't know how long until I get to it, but I'll let you know for sure what I think. Oh, and I'll watch those lethal voltages.
Thanks again.

Since you mentioned this, I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. I don't want to hijack this thead (too late I guess ) but I take it you mean just changing some caps in the preamp. Some of the main differenes I see are the two caps coming from the power tube grids. Also my ceriatone HRM doesn't use any snubbers on V2. Another main difference I see is the cap circled in red. Also I believe the value on the LNFB of V1 is a bit different. I used a Ceriatone 183 layout here with circles around the caps I see that are different in the preamp section. Would it really be this easy to get closer to a #183?

I often wondered why there were no snubbers on V2 on the HRM and what difference they would make. From what I can tell all other D-type designs utilize them.

Is there a thread you know of that discusses this in more detail? Thanks

This a real tough one to answer. This is sort of being discussed here.
http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=3579.0

I would love to have the chance to have a #183 and see what it's really like first hand. But something tells me if I only had one amp to play and get the most versatility, a HRM type amp would be it. Even though I say "if I knew what the #183 was when I got my HRM, I would've ended up with it" in the other thread, it doesn't mean that I woudn't be sitting here wondering what the HRM is really all about.

It's almost a "close your eyes and throw a dart" type of thing. I know one thing, I don't think any choice is going to be a bad one. These amps are incredible.

Sorry for not being much help.

Man, thanks for all the great information. Even though I'm a PRS guy my "go to" guitar for the last 2 years is this PRS Swamp Ash 513 w/maple neck. I use the single coils probably 60% of the time. So good SC tone is important to me. I also owned a 92' Jeff Beck Sig Strat that I loved and then like a fool, sold. You're right though I use to play nothing but humbuckers for the first 15 years of playing.

Hmm, interesting about converting my amp to a 183...I would have to give that some thought. As far as C/D-lator, I'm saving up the money to build one, but a great forumite, Todd Wilcox, loaned me his Klein-u-lator for a little while to try it out. I know it's not like the C-lator, but it has given me a good taste of what it's all about. I didn't think it was possible to get even better sound than before.

You're right Scott Lerner is incredible. I was playing last night to some backing tracks and getting some great tones and was feeling rather proud of myself. Then I happened to pull of this thread, and got a dose of reality. Man he's good. And the bloom he's getting on this clip is outrageous.
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12182&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=ac650f464ab1fddb2e63609c4a946f2a

That's one thing I can't quite get my amp to do. That's bloom easily anywhere on the neck. It's getting better, but in it's present setup and tube configuration, I don't see it ever being like that clip. But it does have it's own unique character. I do want to try some different tubes in the PI.

I can see your point on HRM's being an all round amp. Mainly, due to the fact that they sound great with big over driven chords. Big Marshall sounding at times. But it solos nice too.

Thanks again for the tips. I may have to hit you up for some advice down the road if I decide to dig into my amp.

Will these do? I don't think they're exactly like the ones Nik has, but should work. Scroll to the bottome of the page.
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/plugord.htm

You say "boards", does that mean you got the whole kit or just the main boards? Either way that's cool. Good weekend for sure.....

It took a little longer than two days, but I was blown away at how quick my kit got to me from Malaysia.

Hello Bluesfendermanblues, I try to be nice everywhere I go. You're a nice guy here and there too. I guess that's what first threw me a bit. Being honest, I was starting to build a bit of an attitude with some of the ways answers were given over there and you got the brunt of that attitude. A bad attitude is not a good way to go about things. I use to work with a bunch of EE's with huge egos that use to drive me crazy and I guess it sparked some old crap in me. Let me say, I really respect and admire your restraint with staying out of it after the initial interaction. So sorry for the attitude.

I can read, but I hate doing it. I get destracted easily and find it very boring. I'm much better with audible and visual learning. All my guitar ability is mostly from watching others. I can see and hear someone play a complex phrase and get it immediately, where seeing it written out will take me forever.

Thanks for the advice on a non-hrm. I very happy now with the HRM, but if I would've realized at the time just what exactly the #183 was, I probably would have gone with that.  I use to frequent the TGP a lot more about 4 or 5 years ago. I was there at TPG through PRS forums. This must have been about the time that Tag got the #183. At that time I had no idea what it was, but was super impressed with tone. I knew of the Dumble mistique, but didn't realize that was what I was listening to. What I remember more was all the crazy banter back and forth between Tag and others. I never really participated in the discussions and stopped posting there for the most part about that time. It wasn't until figuring it all out recently through the TheAmpGarage, that it all came together.

Hopefully amp building becomes something I do a lot more of and we can have a great relationship. Thanks again. 

Now back to the regular scheduled programming.........

HRM.....I'm probably prejudice because it's the one I built. But I can't imagine a more versatile/tweakable D-style build. I would like to see what an EL34 based OTS would be like. Like the 183 or HRM mkII.

According to my part list it's a M4 srew that fits into it.

I built one for my first amp. I think if you're mature and able to be patient and understand it's not a toy and can be potentionally dangerous it's possible. PLUS, have a fair amount of electronics/technical experience is one form or another. I spent more then a few years in very large R&D test lab for a major corp. While I spent most the time relegated to specific tasks, I got to see the whole design process of an electronic commercial product from begining to end. This has made me rather brave about jumping into the deep end.

I should add that the experience from others at forums like this were critcal in my success.

I had been building guitar effects for a few years before building the amp too.

Also, even though there are no schematics available for these amps, do you have any experience in reading schematics?

Also, I understand wanting to build an amp that you will really want to play. In fact I was out to build my dream amp.

What speakers are you using? I have an HRM 50 into a 2x12 with WGS ET-65 & Vet 30. When I first finished the build all had was a Celestion V30 to play through. If anything, I had to dial back the bass a bunch once I got the new cabinet and speakers. Mainly due to the ET-65.

I not questioning what you're hearing, but it suprises me, because I have plenty of range in the clean tone stack. And tons of touch sensitivity. I think more information about your specific setup is needed.

I should add, I'm using Tung Sol RI in the pre and TAD 6L6 WGC STR's in the power amp.