Well, you can get those classic D-Style HRM sounds out of the BM, especially with the 1265's or with the speaker combo that Chris has, but it's a lil more agressive and "bigger" and "fatter" so to speak. In other words the BM is usually a lil less compressed, and less refined than the HRM or the OTS for that matter, mainly due to the design of the PI and the OD setup itself. To me the BM has always been more early Bassman/Early Marshall, especially when you drive the clean channel hard and then boost it. To me, the OD on the BM sounds much better with the HRM bypassed. It has much more of an overdriven/hot rodded Fender vibe to it than a hot rodded marshall vibe. Like Chris i found it very difficult, although, not impossible to find that sweet spot on the trimmers, and not make it sound like a totally different amp than the clean side.
One thing to remember is the HAD added the HRM to amps as a modification/upgrade AFTER they were built and it's possible that there were some amps he built with the Bluesmaster tonestack and no HRM and added then later, either as a result of  customer request or after suggesting it. Greg (boldaslove69) would probably be the best to confirm that. So bear that in mind.

Well, I can tell you it took me a little while to get the OD where I like it. I think some of was break in time on both the amp and speaker side, some of it was Bypassing the HRM (although now i can get pretty good tones with the HRM, as well), and some was some tube rolling and changes in my playing technique. I can tell you that i keep my OD trim at about 10 or 11 o clock most of the time, and depending on how i have the drive set on the c-lator and which guitar i'm using,  the drive on the OD channel can be set anywhere from 12 o clock to 3 or 4 o clock

The OD is about 85% where I want it now, and i am pretty sure it's the speakers that are holding me back.

That said, yesterday i ordered a ceramic paper dome California and a ceramic paper dome Michigan from Weber. I listened to quite a few clips and read quite a few posts saying that these two particular speakers play well together, and that The paper dome California is like a JBL D120, but without the ice pick, and handles overdrive tones better than the original JBL, and that the Michigan is similar to the EV, either the 12L or the SRO, depending on who you ask. Long and short of being, i should have a nice bright, yet warm and rounded clean and OD tone from the California and a similar sound with the Michigan, although not quite as bright as the California, but with nice tight, full, deep bass response and a "creamy" high end when the OD kicks in; in short they should cover everything the BM can throw at it.

I think the BM likes humbuckers or high outout single coils for OD, but at the same time, my Dano sounds awesome through it. Again, i think alot of the woes i have now are in the speakers. they are kinda middy, but they also want a lot of mids to sing, and to a degree it can make the OD sound kinda generic. My old Delta 12's sound much better than the 1265's as far as nice tight deep bass and the mids are better controlled, but they are so old and worn out that they struggle to reproduce high frequencies well, and i worry about blowing em. the other 2 drivers that were in the 4x12 have dry rotted, i'm surpised these are still around.

Anyway, i think time and some tweaking will help everything come together on the OD for ya. If not, i would suggest trying different speakers. in my case i figure even if i don't like the Cali and the MI i can flip em pretty quickly, and if i do like em, i can always sell the 1265 alnicos and make someone else happy!

Hope this helps!

Gregg

Any updates, Stratultra? Getting any closer to the sound you are looking for?

Gregg

I also agree with this. I have found that using the amp and the c-lator together, i can get awesome sounds at both bedroom levels and gig levels. Most of the magic in the D-Style amps is in the pre-amp, and they were designed to sound great at low and high volume. This is why they are so responsive to changes in preamp tubes and changes in preamp voltages. The output section sounds its best when biased colder than most rock tube amps (55% vs 70% or higher) and it's this fact that allows the amp, coupled with the c-lator to sound good at both low and high volumes. I am defintely going to order a Weber Michigan (or two) and see how it sounds. I think that the Alnico 1265 and the Ceramic Michigan will either sound pretty good together...or not lol. we'll see.


Gregg

Ah, I see it now! My eyes are getting old

Gregg

Azlin,
Are the Reverb Tanks being shipped with the head unit as well?

Gregg

I was gonna suggest that maybe you could install VVR on the output side of the prinzetone only, which is what Nik is planning on doing on a 5F4 for me. He said that on lower gain amps this is a good solution, allows the power tubes to be overdriven a bit without being loud,  and won't affect the pre amp side at all.

Sounds like you came up with a workable solution, though


Gregg

Henry,

Any of the OTS Tall Head Cabs with the C-Lator cut out available yet?

Gregg

Heh heh. Cool man! Wasn't yours sounding awesome already? It's prolly gonna sound godlike now!!

you're welcome, Joe. Glad i could help


Gregg

Exactly. When I first got it, I just kept telling myself that drive drives the signal to the pedals, and out controls the overall output

Gregg

Thanks for wording it properly, Chris. It's been a long 3 days and i really haven't slept much  : 

That part is almost perfect, the proper switch is a single pole model, however. the tricky part is finding a single pole, single deck 6 position rotary switch. The trick a lot of guys, myself included, use is to purchase a 12 position switch, like this one from mouser for about $6 US

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CK-Components/A11203RNZQ/?qs=h7H1bHRqGz9MM%2fx388MIzg%3d%3d

The trick to that switch is that it has an adjustable stop so that you can limit how far the switch goes over, effectively making it anywhere from a 2 to a 12 position switch. Cool, huh?

Hope this helps!

Gregg

Stephen

Actually there is more than one way to skin the cat on this one 

Method 1: "drive" controls the signal going out to the effects from the c-lator, "In" controls the amount of signal returning from your effects to the c-lator, usually you would want this up full. "drive" and "in" basically control the level of signal being mixed to "Out" which controls the amount of signal returning to the amp from the c-lator. "Out" is what becomes the global master, should you choose to use the c-lator in that fashion. This is how it is laid out in the manual.

Method 2: you can also run "out" all the way up, and adjust "drive" and "in" and use the actual masters on the amp to control your volume. this method allows you to drive the PI harder, this is also in the manual.

Method 3: The method you use. Hey, if it works, and that's how Nik explained it to ya then let it ride!!

As far as the speaker goes, i may sit and wait, but knowing myself like i do, i prolly won't 

Gregg

Hey Strat!

Glad you are getting closer to the tone you want! Yes indeed all the tone controls are very interactive with each other. I, much like everyone else, i'm sure learned very quickly that small changes in settings can add up to huge differences in tone. I, like you use the bright switches on my amp and c-lator, due to the fact that the 1265's roll off/disperse the highs so much. i have found that the first bright switch, the one next to the drive knob, works pretty well in conjunction with the bright switch on the amp IF you have the drive turned up past 2 o'clock. That's another thing, aside from keeping the "In" Knob on the C-Lator aimed, and using the "Out" as your over all master the Drive knob can either make your OD tone awesome, or crappy. If you have no effects in the loop, or ones that can take a higher signal level, keep the Drive knob on the c-lator at 2 o'clock or higher and you will be rewarded with great OD tone.

Here's something else about the BM that is nice... the OD tones you can by simply running the clean channel hard and using either the stock or modified MEGA PAB (22M resistor lifting the stack instead of a 68k one) or nice clean boost pedal are simply nothing short of bad ass. Very fat singing OD that is not as compressed as the OD on the drive side, and by using either the PAB or your boost pedal, you can get a lil more out of it for solos or chunkier rhythm passages. Just set your preamp volume to some where between 1 o clock and 3 o clock to taste, your master to about 4 or 5 o clock, and use your c-lator as a global master, and start playing! you can adjust your pre amp volume and tonestack the tone you want, and the whack it either the PAB or boost pedal and i guarantee you will be smiling ear to ear. I will admit that this usually sounds better through my delta 12 speakers than my 1265's... more on that in the next paragraph.

To be honest, as much as i like the 1265's i still feel that they are somewhat of a compromise and not the best match for the Bluesmaster. A few members on here tried to steer me away from em, but it was too late as i had already ordered em, so i carried on and figured i'd give them a try and break em in and see what happens. Overall i like em, but I think the main reason the 1265's aren't as good in the BM as the other OTS amps is that the BM has such a huge amount of deep and tight low and mid bass, and the overall soundstage is just way bigger, and  the 1265's and some of the other british style speakers just don't have the low end response to reproduce it and they get flubby, even with the deep switch and presence on to tighten it up.  I switched out the speakers again for my old Delta 12's yesterday, and despite the fact that they are right at 20 years old, dried out and a lil flat, the bass response is all there and it makes the overall tone SO much better.

My point is, that after the speakers are well broken in and you do a bunch of tube rolling and tweaking, and it still isn't quite where ya want it, don't get discouraged and sell the amp like i have seen a few guys here do. It may just be time to try out some other speakers. Even though some hardline D-style guys will say that the 1265 is the ONLY way to go, many members on this forum have proven otherwise. I know of at least one member here that used and may still be using a 4x10 cab. Quite a few BM owners have used the EVM12L, the Celestion Gold, Eminence Texas heat, Weber 12F150 or !2A150, etc.

My plan at the moment is to go with either the Weber Michigan Ceramic or the Eminence Delta Pro 12A, both of which are based off of the EVM12L (the alnico version of the Weber Michigan is said to be more like the EVM12S), and see if I can get more of what I am looking for.

Well, i made another long post  have fun with the amp and let us know how things progress!!

Gregg