Ceriatone Forum

Hello all
Now that my FM50 is up and running I want to maximize my tonal options.
Is anybody here running a dual amp setup and if so what are you using as ABY box as well as which amps compliment the OTS sound?.
I know J Bonamassa likes to use a Silver Jubilee and to me that sounds great, but he changes amps and setups constantly I dont think he even used a d-style amp on the new BCC album, just a bunch of marshalls!
From my understanding the OTS is more pronounced in the mids so the goal is to add an amp that is more pronounced in the Bass and Treble than the mids ( makes sense ) to get a fuller sound.
Any opinions on this subject would be highly appreciated!
Thank you
Todd

Hey T,

Well, as funny as this is going to sound, I am running my BM100 along with a solid-state Princeton Chorus from like 1999.  Blasphemy?  Possibly, but it does sound pretty good.  Here's how it works.  I have a Furman pedalboard with stereo outs, and I am running a Hardwire RV-5 and DL-8.  Digitech did a great job with these pedals, BTW, they both feature stereo ins and outs.  Both of these pedals are in the effects loop, so I run a cable from the stereo out on the Furman (which carries the signal of my "pre-amp" pedals, ODs, comp, wah, fuzz) into the stereo in of the reverb, patch cable to the delay, cable out to the Princeton Chorus.  Dial in a decent clean sound with it (cleans are where this 2x10 combo really excel), and I have my lovely Dumble OD with a clean mix, plus some wet/dry variation from the reverb (and delay when it's on).

-S

Thank you
That gave me an idea to use my Boss GT-10 which has stereo outs for the meantime until I get decent ABY and better pedals. Only problem I see is both amps are always on which may be ok also for now!

I've been Running a Dual amp setup for quite some time for my rig.

 I use:

Bluesmaster Pre

or (Both nonHRM & HRM pre's on a switching system)
 
Quinn 183 Preamp

Into a
100w BM Power Amp

with a 2x12 with Ev's or G65's

 Now I either use a 64' Bandmaster with Dumble mods (Skyliner/classic tonestack
  (In a combo cab with a Celestion) that blends wit the OD or cleans very well with no adjustments (just dimmed )

Or I use a Trainwreck/JTM45 Octal Rocket (w/ 6L6's) dimed with a Fuzz face in front of it in a 2x12 with Celestion. This amp only get turned on when I hit the OD on my HRM. (before this amp I used an OLD heavily modified Traynor Yba-1 with plexi mods)


 IMO I recommend a Marshall like a Plexi 100w, JTM45, Modified Black face Fender Bassman or Wreck. Something Marshall based from the 67',68',69' era' will blend nicely with the OD of the amp you have already.

 The key is to match certain frequencies and adjusting Volume is crucial to the sound you'll get. get a Mrshall that is very Bass/Mids heavy and you'll be happy IMO

With my dual amp settup I like having both amps on all the time. I'll have the OTS as my main amp and a clean fender or something similar to have both the clean sounds. When I use the OTS's overdrive the fender stays clean and gives a really nice depth and character to the tone.

FWIW i am currently running a Sovtek Mig 50 and an Ampeg J12-R along with my HRM BM 50 right now and they each balance the other very nicely. The Sovtek is about on its last legs, so i plan on having Nik build me a Plexi 50 modified to run 6L6's to kinda replace the Sovtek and mount it into a 2x12 cab. Like Greg said though, find an amp that balances out your FM50 and you will be a happy camper :)

The GT10 was the worst FX I ever bought, it trashes the tone even when you switch everything off on it.
Now you have a really pro boutique amp, you'll need better quality FX I am afraid, look at Xotic, Carl Martin, EHX, TC, Way Huge, etc
try your amp on a good warm clean sound, put the GT10 in line and try again. Yack. It ruined my Twin, never mind my top amps.

Picking 2 amps to combine is like telling someone else what favourite sandwich they can like, there's too many combinations.
Try a few

Major advice from me is: get a proper Pro ABY pedal, mine is UK-made (Twinstomp), and has a transformer to decouple one output, otherwise you can get a lot of ground loop issues. Also transparent sounding buffering on it is essential

 

So far thank you for all your suggestions
Tone control I agree with you completely on GT-10 being crap! I only have one good pedal right now other than that ( BYOC) envelope filter. I almost started buying a bunch of pedals to make my Peavey JSX sound better and while researching ( GASing ) I ended up learning so much about Dumbles due to a article in Joe Bonamassas Forum about getting his Reverbicated Tone and then found Ceriatone. Because of people like yourself and many others on this forum sharing  I can hopefully stop spending my hard earned moola on Crap ;D. But I am sorry you had the experience of spending probably $500 on that GT-10 just like myself.
Thank you all for sharing

unusually I sold the gt10 for more than I paid for it. For a Multi-FX, the Carl Martin Quattro is the best I've seen/heard, I prefer the older Tremolo version
My current theory is:
I've been shown stuff in guitar shops so many times that sounded good, but 2-3 weeks later, I didn't like
Therefore I try to buy at prices where I lose little or nothing if I dislike the gear.
I make some exceptions for kit that is impossible to get used or reduced. Half my Ceriatones were bought used. The ODS models hold their value the best.
This way I can be more adventurous with buying but really test them in my own time.
e.g. I bought a Fuchs ODS that was good value used, liked it, and bought the BM50 based on that, with the Celestion Gold, the BM50 was better for me, so I moved the Fuchs on at no loss to me.
It's working well for me, I have a non-stop gear beauty contest, and it's gelling into a set of gear I find rewarding to play.

Ideally I'd have a guitar shop that loaned me stuff, but there are no UK shops that sell a good range of boutique or replica amps.

 

+1 on transformer decoupling and buffering. When I used a dual amp setup I used an older Fultone Stereo Choralflange which is buffered and/or my TC 2290 and it worked nicely, but most A/B/Y boxes I used just always ended up with ground loop issues. If the buffer is designed well it won't kill your tone. In fact can make things better.

 I built A/B/Y with remote midi switching so I can switch on multiple amps with one switch. I'm in the process of refining a transformer isolated remote pre-amp switcher & the midi amp switching all in one. I may get into a preset PCU (like a CAE switcher) If I can figure it all out. Basically all to simplify my rig.

 IMHO having multiple amps @ a gig it's very rewarding when everything is set up right (Volume,high/low & mid's mixed right, which effects are switched on with what amps ,etc.). I used to bring a BF Fender Twin reverb & a 69' 100w plexi Superbass to gigs and after getting into D-style amps its like heaven compared. I don't feel complete with just one amp anymore but am suffice with my 100w BM & a 1x12 @ small gigs.

 Here's simple A/B/Y layout w/ Iso Xfrmer's if you want to roll your own.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=89725.0

i'm wasn't as handy a few years ago as i am now so i bought one of these and used to use it. with it you can drive up to six amps or devices quite handy, but if the venue you are playing at ahs bad grounding it can be kinda "shocking"

http://www.mojotone.com/guitar-parts/Rene-Martinez-Texas-Guitar-Whiz/Rene-Martinez-Texas-Guitar-Whiz-Signal-Splitter

Making your own can be fun though. I will be making a true bypass switcher to switch my non true bypass effects in and out of the line/loop and i'm looking into winding my own pickups and making my own fuzz.
 i use a series of y-cables now, and i'm sure i lose signal, but it works for now.

Gregg

here's my current dual amp setup. i took the ampeg out of the mix because the speaker is starting to go. The only issue i have is that since i am using a y cable out of the boost which is the last pedal in my train, if one of the amps is on standby, i get a pop if i switch any of the pedals in and out due to ground issues i believe. i need an a/b/y box i suppose. oh and the 4x12's are currently in use, they are a glorified stand right now

thanks again to all replies
I have since tried to start my JSX and found  a cracked rectifier tube, i replaced it with a EH 12ax7 I had and then powered up and the amp went crazy loud with no input.
Figures atleast my OTS is runnin.
I was gonna get thae  JSX runnin and sell to pay for next build(2550)
Now I gotta disect >:(

you put a 12ax7 in a rectifier spot?

I heard he is using Marshall DSL's for BCC

I am using 50watt HRM and a Stray Cat 30 as my dual amp setup and switching / combining them with a Dunlop George Lynch Tripler.

My HRM goes into a EVM12L in a homemade Theile Cab and the Stray Cat into a Marshall 4x12 with WGS ET-65's.

It has worked out really well for the sound I want to get as I prefer the HRM for cleans and the Stray Cat for lead.

The only drawback of running a dual rig is finding room in the car to put all the gear

I replaced it with the same (12ax7)one that that was there for the last 4 years. I dont know if its he rectifier tube or the PI though. Its a JSX combo and Im still havin problems so it wasnt just the tube. I really only moved it a couple of times since it last worked good.
I know more about my OTS and its new because I wired it .
The JSX has 4 el34s and 4 12ax7's
1 of the 12ax7s sits next to the el34s and it was broken it was seperate from the other 3 preamp tubes
but since putting that in when I powered up the amp howled and I immediately pulled the plug and said I will deal with this later I have an OTS to play, but in the back of my mind Im thinkin PCB crap or somethin silicon is failed in that amp.  Thats for next weekend

ok, whew.  if i understand correctly it's a JSX Satriani model, and if it is the tube closest to the first EL34 it's the PI tube. was it physically broken like cracked, or just burned out?

it was physically broken
at the top of tube where it is normally metallic it was powdery white.
I think when I put it in I was pressing a little too hard.
I dont know as much about the JSX amp as I should.
Do you know what the other 3 12ax7s are then I assume 2 of them are preamp tubes leaving 1 unknown.
Either way I replaced the cracked tube and now the amp makes horrible loud sound on startup. I immediatley powered back down.
Hope the cracked tube didnt blow somethin else

the 3rd 12AX7 is the PI, or Phase Inverter tube.

I have a Voodoo Labs Amp Selector that I got in a trade but I haven't tried it out yet.
It might be an option for you.

http://www.voodoolab.com/ampselector.htm

the 3rd 12AX7 is the PI, or Phase Inverter tube.

there are 4 12ax7's, 1 sits byself right next to power tubes ( PI I think )
the other 3 are offset behind xfrmr ( 2 are preamp tubes )
the last one I still dont know what it does.
I havent spent much time yet trying to figure it out cause I have this brand new OTS that wants to be played :)
This coming weekend I will dig into this amp.
Ive never even removed chassis to look inside so it should be fun

I run two amps in STEREO when I play larger venues or record.

(http://www.drika.biz/twoOTS.jpg)

Sound samples are recorded with custom telecaster - 50w OTS - moded Digitech RP200 in the loop (no C lator) left out to amps return and right out to other amp's return. RP200 has volume/expression pedal and switches channels as well. Cabs have recording microphones inside.

Samples:

1. Drive (NO PAB !!!): Neck and bridge pickups. Switching boost on bridge pickup. FXs: reverb, ping-pong delay and lesly simulator on the end of the deive sumple. Synthish sound with short stereo delay.
            http://www.drika.biz/twoamp3.mp3

2. Clean - chord swell, stereo chorus, big clean with tremelo.
                http://www.drika.biz/twoamp1.mp3

3. Clean with ping-pong delay and paner.
               http://www.drika.biz/twoamp2.mp3

Cheers

Thanks again to all
Pickmaster, love the setup. I should know this from all the other posts of yours ive read but are both OTS original ( no mods ) if not which mods on each?

Also I will start a new post regarding the amp problems im having with my JSX in near future if need be
sorry to divert from the main subject!
Todd

Doc, I know that one of the extra pots on the front fascia is the OD treble bleed mod, but whats the other one? PAB level?

Thanks

Hi hywel,

two three way switches on the right are master volume high pass capacitors 47pf and 100pf which I only use in case of longer than 5m loop cable or very dark speaker. actually  never use it with my speakers. Another switch is super drive's (you know I have additional high gain drive channel) high cut capacitor filter to match drive and superdrive tones.
Also you know that I don't have a PAB which is only useful when amp is on JAZZ setting.
My amps are rewired and I only have ROCK setting which is the best setting for D style amps. Also I like a real boost with no tone change which is magical on clean and OD.
To control the boost level I have pot in PAB's jack hall.
Let me stress, no D style amp comes closer in flexibility to this two beauties probably except glaswerks OD II or Red plate magic dust with multichannel OD. Loads of great amps went trough my hands: 4 two Rock sig reverbs, Kimok, Fuchs OD 50 and 30, Skidstrup 50, three Bludos 70's  80's and Oj (80s is a fantastic amp belongs to Pete wood, probably tonally the best sounding and recording amp - left on the photo). And all of them are NON HRM circuits! with most naturally sounding, liquid overdrive.

(http://www.drika.biz/DUMBSS.JPG)
Cheers

Hi,

long time since my previous posting...

I'm running 2008 OTS 50 and '68 Marshall plexi 50W parallel to vertical Mesa 2x12 metal grille cabinet from early 90's. OTS is feeding the ported thiele part of the cabinet, which has 80W Celestion Century G12 inside. Marshall is feeding the open-back top portion of the cabinet to Mesa C90. Splitter box (guitar signal) is Roger Mayer Crossroads.

Both amps contibute to the sound at the same time. First I dial a good crunchy tone from the Marshall alone with more mids, than bass or treble. Then I fine-tune a good lead sound from the OTS alone.  When I combine the sounds, I'm adjusting the Marshall to slightly dominate the rhythm sound for crunchier rock tones. Here OTS clean channel provides most of the bottom end and the high end "air". For solos, I kick in the lead channel from OTS.

My experience is that if I try to make both amps sound great on their own, the comibined tone is not as satisfying as when I "layer" the sound of the two amps, with different tonality.

There are couple of things that make this setup less optimal:
1) switching guitars between songs takes more time, if pickup outputs vary a lot
2) requires two channels from the PA

Despite of the shortcomings, the resulting sound is extremely addictive. The setup is also fairly portable, with two heads and one small-ish cab. Since we don't gig so often, I haven't made any changes to my setup for a long time (therefore, no visits to this forum either...) Now I'm looking for an alternative for the C90 though.

Just found a fairly cheap ABY from Redzone pedals called the Splitzo. Anyone know if these are anygood?