Ceriatone Forum

I've got an OTS FM100 coming in the next few weeks.  I've already got the C-lator and am rigging that up with a Chandler Stereo Digital Echo and a Lexicon MPX200 in a 3 space rack, along with modifying my pedalboard, loading EVM-12Ls into cabinets, and otherwise getting ready.

I've read here and there that the FM, in particular, has some unpleasantly piercing highs that need to be "tamed" (everybody uses that word!).  The recommendation has been RG400 cables from the OTS to the c-lator and back, of sufficient length (as I understand it) such that the natural capacitance of he cabling removes tames the offending highs.  My understanding is that this RG400 stuff is very low capacitance (perhaps similar to if not identical with George L cable).

My questions are several:

1)  Is the reputation of the high end on the FM 100 universally accepted as being an issue?
2)  Why use the RG400 if you want to add capacitance and they're LOW capacitance?  It seems like higher capacitance (which mostly corresponds to cheaper) cables would do the trick with shorter lengths.
3)  What are folks with these amps using and how do you find it working out for you?

I realize that part of the answer is "wait to see how it sounds to you and then try a few things" but I'm hoping to be as near to ready to really play (as opposed to tweak) this thing by the time it arrives, so I'm seeking advice now so I can get a general sense of what to expect.

I await your collective wisdom.

Thanks guys!

I perhaps should mention that my amp will have a switch giving me a few different options for bright caps on the MV, which will no doubt have some affect on this issue.

There's a post here where user boldaslove69 explains about the capacitance of the RG400 cables, and why he used them in his rig incorporating an external quinn preamp ]http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=3460.0] (http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=3460.0)

From what i gather it's more about using a longer length of high quality cable to get a higher capacitance but still have quality cables.

I have a BM and have 2 cheap 3 foot regular guitar cable (planet waves i think) and have no drop in tone, so i imagine that you would either have to use either shorter run higher capacitance cables or, as others are doing longer runs of lower capacitance cables.  

I can tell you Monster Cables high dollar gold tipped extra thick "Rock" cables can take ALOT of highs out of your tone. I used to plug into the front of my amp with one now and then. I thought my amp's intermittent lack of tone was just due to it being a moody OTS (see this post http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=3814.0 (http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=3814.0) turns out it was the brand spankin new Monster Cable. Went with the Vox coil cable, and problem was solved!

So, if you don't feel like making your own cables, or want a shorter run, give the Monster Cable "Rock" series a try lol"

Hope this helps

Gregg

The RG400 cable is no high capicitance cable!
It's actually very low. It works well together with the High impendance fx loop of the amp.
Due to the high impedance, every shielded cable will smooth things out.
With this cable you will have smoothing, but not too much. It's not magic or something, just a scientific fact which you can choose to work for your/ or against your amps sound.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

General speaking: if you use a Clator; a cap on the amps master volume is recomendable.(Like the FM100)
If you don't use a Clator omit the cap on the amps master volume.

Thanks Erwin. You worded better than I did ;)

You can also put a .0022uf cap from signal to ground on the Return jack of a Dumbleator. It rolls off a nice amount of highs when there's a big bright cap on the master.

This is what Brandon at Bludotone does to the Bludo-Lator that you get when you buy an Ojai amp. This is so you don't have to have 10 ft. lengths of RG-400 cable, you can just use standard cables with a slight high end roll off from the cap.


I made a box with a Rotary Control to switch out certain Capacitor values. I usually use it on the .0022uf setting.

It has a "Bypass" setting,  .001uf, .0047uf, .01uf, and .022 uf settings. 

I used to use this box to spec out cut lengths of RG-400 when the amp was ready for cables but I just leave it in the Dumbleator now and adjust to taste.

I just talked to the owner recently of a real 120w Dumble Overdrive Special Reverb that was tweaked extensively by HAD. He told me RG-400 cables were included standard with all Rack Dumbleator purchases from Dumble.

(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq162/boldaslove6789/Cap%20box/CapBox2.jpg)

(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq162/boldaslove6789/Cap%20box/CapBox1.jpg)

Cool idea with the rotary switch -- I might build one just to try it out.

Thanks all.

Unless you are going to bypass switch the loop would you not be better to install pickmasters rotary cut control for the OD circuit only? Any cut control thats permanently in the loop is going to cripple the clean sound surely?

I have to agree with Hywel on this one. One might improve amp’s drive tone but clean channel tone would suffer. External gadgets can improve the tone in some way but it is always better to tweak and tune just an amp to perfection. Yes, this will take time to achieve but final result would be very pleasant.
Afterwards,  obviously, you can add an external devices if you want, usually as less as possible. I fond to tiring to carry around additional rack case with C lator, effects, power conditioner (not a bad thing though), bag of additional leads, heavy cabinets etc.
Just a great amp, 1x12 Thiele cab with a built in mic and small parallel loop device with a reverb works great for me. I’m sure it will work for you too.
Listen to this clip from 3,40 and I hope you will hear what I’m talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmN4haF9awQ

Best wishes

I use this rotary control in the loop to simulate RG-400 cables.

  Sure, yes It rolls off the high end of both the cleans and OD, which is what I prefer, balanced tone from both the clean and OD.

 It doesn't effect the clean tones because the .0022uf cap only slightly rolls highs so it doesn't effect the clean tone any more than 10 ft. of RG-400 cable would.

  I use this box with my Quinn SDO-R which has a push/pull pot on the Master Vol with a 68pf bright cap. The reason i used it in the first place is because my Quinn has the Dumbleator built in so I can't use cables from the amp to D-lator.

Bludotone does it in there "Ojai" Loop-A-lator and Glaswerks has it on a switch in there SOD-II.

It all about simulating a high end roll off and getting balanced tones without the need for special cables in the loop, it's not permanent, and is adjustable to taste.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggDhXyNPcic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a1ZsJkWYXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvFGgLHVuIc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq162/boldaslove6789/Quinn/Quinngood2.jpg)