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Author Topic: Tweaked Layout  (Read 164177 times)
scotto
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« Reply #75 on: June 22, 2008, 05:37:50 PM »

Bluefendermanblues,

Thanks for the tip.  I soldered test clips to my master volume pot and tried a bunch of different cap values that were suggested by Dogears on the Amp Garage forum and wound up selecting the 47pf just as you said.  It really opens up the tone and makes my humbuckers sound much better.  I also noticed that it seems to smooth the overdrive sound as well.  Not sure how that works, but it sounds smoother to me.  Clean channel it also more open sounding (a bit brighter with better definition).  I highly recommend this mod to all Overtone users.  As previously mentioned, just solder the cap across the 2 legs that aren't going to  ground.  Lower values will give less brightness.  Dialing in your own preferred sound in is easy if you do the test clip thing and try a range of values. I tried from 33pf to 47 pf as per S. Lerner's advice.  If you are less ambitious, just go with the 47 and see if that works for you.
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hywelg
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« Reply #76 on: June 24, 2008, 08:02:23 PM »

I've found these last few posts especially helpful ,thanks guys.

I have been experiencing a lack of brightness right from the start and it was made worse by the JZ mods. Reading this made it clear that the MV cap had something to do with it so I went and got some caps (33,47 and 68pf).

Now I haven't got any croc clips so I tack soldered two wires to the MV contacts and ran these in to a chocolate block and then fixed each of the caps in turn after having run it with no cap. 33 made a big difference, 47 was better and I can understand why went with that scotto but I tried the 68pf aswell and with the Bright (on) Pres (10)and Treble (8)in their original positions it was too bright but dialing them back took the edge away so I fixed that in permanently.

Its a lot better now but still a little dull with humbuckers but I reckon I'm going to have to live with that since its not as simple as changing a setting when changing guitars, I have coil tapped my Fralin PAF's and use the tap switch quite a lot.

Thanks again chaps.
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mcinku
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« Reply #77 on: June 26, 2008, 08:59:27 AM »

Yes I'm struggling with JZ mods as well. IMO my amp is not to bright, so doing those mods does not make any sense to me. I play clean ch and I use OD ch as a boost (slight OD sound). I actually like the bright boost I get when I engage the OD switch, what I'm missing is a little low end. So what I want is to keep the hi end and add the low end.
I'm still thinking what would be the best approach to achieve that. I'm not sure but I think changing cathode bypass caps would help.

Mods I did so far is OD level pot to 100kL, pre OD resistor to 220K and bright cap to 120pF. I think I'm going to try to change V2b baypass cap from 1uF to 4.7uF and see what happens.

Any other ideas?
 Huh?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 11:38:46 AM by mcinku » Logged

hywelg
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« Reply #78 on: June 26, 2008, 11:24:57 AM »

mckincu, I'm happy with the brightness now with the 68pf across the MV, but I'd be interested in what you think of the change to the bypass cap on V2. I'm going to experiment with a 5751 in v2 to try and cut back on the gain a little on OD, maybe even an ecc81 or 82 ( I will have to go and read up on their relative gain factors, can't remember what they are).

I would like to tweak further to get more high mids to give a little more sparkle without the piercing highs but I wouldn't know where to start with achieving that.

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mcinku
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« Reply #79 on: June 26, 2008, 11:42:54 AM »

What tubes are you using currently? For example Ei tube  will give you far more sparkle compared to TungSol or JJ.
If you want less gain 100KL on the OD level is the way to go, just in case you're still using 250KA.

BTW what is the value of your bright cap?
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hywelg
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« Reply #80 on: June 26, 2008, 07:33:18 PM »

What tubes are you using currently? For example Ei tube  will give you far more sparkle compared to TungSol or JJ.
If you want less gain 100KL on the OD level is the way to go, just in case you're still using 250KA.

BTW what is the value of your bright cap?

I don't have any EI tubes but I'll see if I can get a couple to try. I changed the Level pot when I did the JZ mods, and changed the bright cap back to 120pf. Might change that back up to 150-180 tho'.

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mcinku
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« Reply #81 on: June 27, 2008, 06:41:57 AM »

I don't have any EI tubes but I'll see if I can get a couple to try. I changed the Level pot when I did the JZ mods, and changed the bright cap back to 120pf. Might change that back up to 150-180 tho'.

Regarding the mid tone section I read on the TAG forum, that if you want more low mids for example, then adjusting the mid cap is the easiest way...smaller value gives more low mids.
If you want more high-mids then increasing the treble cap would be the way to go and if you want 'more of everything below the high-mids' then decreasing the slope resistor would help.
The slope resistor mod will increase the bass along with the mids/low mids where the Mid cap mod will tend to just focus on the low-mids.
Something like that...

or
You could also try to play with mid control network... currently you have 250K/.001 and you could go with 100k/.05 which would give you even more "mid range sound". You could of course try different caps like .047,.022 and by putting a resistor in parallel with a 250k pot, you can make the pot whatever value you feel like.
...but hey, I'm not an expert, I'm just a guy who read everything on Dumble amps I could find on the web.  Grin Grin
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 08:37:20 PM by mcinku » Logged

bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2008, 08:34:02 PM »

My man, try to download the tsc software from this link: http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/download.html

Its a tone circuit simulator, which enables you to try different values in at Fender (dumble), Marshall, Vox etc tone circuit. Try it and you will get a different impression of the slope reistors impact on the circuit.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this
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hywelg
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« Reply #83 on: June 27, 2008, 11:18:43 PM »

That seems really useful, thanks. I'll have a play and see what will increase the high mids. I  also try to find the tone stack schematic for my 5w SE amp and see if I can replicate it cos I really like the high mids on that.

Edit..

Do you have a saved file that approximates to the OTS? Looking at the Dumble schematics I'm not sure I understand which the OTS is copied from and what the effect of a cap across the Bass pot will be. And how do you cope with the R5(load) resistor being connected differently?.

Still, very useful to be able to play around with the values and see what the effect is to the response curve.


« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 03:35:23 PM by hywelg » Logged
jzucker
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« Reply #84 on: July 03, 2008, 02:19:37 AM »

Surprised anyone would think the mods are dark. I typically keep my presence and treble at 10 O'Clock. Plenty of room to brighten things up. The 47pf mod only works in conjunction with a tube dumbleator and 8' cables. The idea is that the parasitic capacitance introduced in the cables reduces the brash high freq content and then the 47pf is passing through frequencies, some of which have been removed by the effect loop cables. If you use no loop and no dumbleator you are not even close to the robben and carlton mods. Not to say that it won't sound good but just keep those parameters in mind when you are modding. Frankly, adding brightness at the MV side is the wrong way to go IMO since turning the master up negates the effect of the bright cap.
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #85 on: July 03, 2008, 06:06:05 AM »

Hey Jzucker,

whick guitar are you using??

 and which speakers ??

Important to know when you are talking about a bright sounding amp , without mods.

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hywelg
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« Reply #86 on: July 03, 2008, 08:42:47 AM »

Surprised anyone would think the mods are dark. I typically keep my presence and treble at 10 O'Clock. Plenty of room to brighten things up. The 47pf mod only works in conjunction with a tube dumbleator and 8' cables. The idea is that the parasitic capacitance introduced in the cables reduces the brash high freq content and then the 47pf is passing through frequencies, some of which have been removed by the effect loop cables. If you use no loop and no dumbleator you are not even close to the robben and carlton mods. Not to say that it won't sound good but just keep those parameters in mind when you are modding. Frankly, adding brightness at the MV side is the wrong way to go IMO since turning the master up negates the effect of the bright cap.

I'm beginning to think there are different OTS amps out there!. Marins clips, especially the clean strat ones seem nice and chimey to me and I think he said he recorded at quite low volume levels. Without the MV cap I was having to run the presence at full and treble at 7-8 and still it lacked sparkle. It was better when cranked up, and I mean loud, MV 4 or above.  Frankly I would like to dispense with the mv cap and have the tone stack do the right thing but I really don't know enough to start meddling, and anyway why is mine so different? I know I built it myself, but there really isn't that much that I could have done incorrectly and I have treble checked the wiring and my amp tech did the same prior to power up.

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jzucker
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« Reply #87 on: July 04, 2008, 12:56:33 AM »

Hey Jzucker,

whick guitar are you using??

 and which speakers ??

Important to know when you are talking about a bright sounding amp , without mods.



Celestion 1265 which are dark, greenbacks which are a little brighter and Wizards which are brighter still.
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #88 on: July 04, 2008, 05:56:46 AM »

Ok, but surely you're a strat player -
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jzucker
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« Reply #89 on: July 04, 2008, 10:51:28 AM »

Ok, but surely you're a strat player -

uh, no. I have a couple les pauls, a sadowsky semi, a 339 and yes, a strat.
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