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Author Topic: Trebble problem bluesmaster od channel  (Read 15994 times)
pismuzisyen
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« on: January 30, 2010, 07:04:12 PM »
Hi

I m a new user the bluesmaster hrm. My friend wired the amp for me. When i play the clean channel i really satisfied. But at the od channel we have a trebble problem. I try to reduce trebble with using trim pots but i can't reduce enough. When increase the gain the tone getting unsufferable.

Is there any mod or something to reduce trebble at od channel.

Thank you.

Burak
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JD0x0
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2010, 07:21:40 PM »
the OD channel shouldnt be that bright. especially on an HRM.

What speakers are you using?
Where do you have the OD trim at? (Gain trimmer)

Speakers are a big part of this amps sound if youre using vintage 30's or something expect a bright sound.
Also the OD trim pot being too high will result in a harsher less dumble tone.

Also i assume you just got this amp? Try letting it (burn in) is will become warmer, smoother and more "touchy"
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demiruyar
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2010, 07:23:04 PM »
Ok, here is the deal.Burak gave the amp to me to test it and find a possible solution.

The clean channel sounds pretty nice,however when ı switch to the od channel there is a constant fizz going on.The amp does not sound fat at all.There was this huge flabby resonating bass going on with a very high end trebly fizz,tearing my ears.So I tried to adjust the internal trimpots by decreasing the bass and treble,
After adjustments the bass became neutral but the treble is still to much.Also I noticed that cranking the drive interracts with the fizzy treble and sound becomes to fuzzy.What could be wrong?

I tried it with Ian Anderson standart with Throbak limiteds and a Prs Mccarty with Wolfetone Marshallheads....
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JD0x0
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« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2010, 07:42:35 PM »
Quote from: demiruyar on January 30, 2010, 07:23:04 PM
Ok, here is the deal.Burak gave the amp to me to test it and find a possible solution.

The clean channel sounds pretty nice,however when ı switch to the od channel there is a constant fizz going on.The amp does not sound fat at all.There was this huge flabby resonating bass going on with a very high end trebly fizz,tearing my ears.So I tried to adjust the internal trimpots by decreasing the bass and treble,
After adjustments the bass became neutral but the treble is still to much.Also I noticed that cranking the drive interracts with the fizzy treble and sound becomes to fuzzy.What could be wrong?

I tried it with Ian Anderson standart with Throbak limiteds and a Prs Mccarty with Wolfetone Marshallheads....

Thats why i suggested to lower the overdrive trim pot. Also Let the amp break in dude. it will lose that fizz and tighten up the bass. What speakers ar you using with the amp?
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pismuzisyen
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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 10:08:31 PM »
My speakers are fender (from 1970 super reverb)

But I think our problem is not speaker.
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JD0x0
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 10:25:10 PM »
Quote from: pismuzisyen on January 30, 2010, 10:08:31 PM
My speakers are fender (from 1970 super reverb)

But I think our problem is not speaker.

IMO the amp just needs to be broken in and could probably use some warmer sounding speakers. I had a similar problem with my non-HRM OTS, the HRM should sound warmer due to it being an HRM and having the internal treble control. Just give it time, the tubes as well as all the components need to break in before they sound their best. after you put about 20 hours on the amp if the amp is still too bright you might need to try some g12-65 or other warmer sounding speakers. Those old 70's speakers can be a bit bright with certain amps. It might sound warmer with a fender due to the mid scoop but the OTS has much more mids which can be percieved as very bright with some speakers
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pismuzisyen
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2010, 08:28:22 AM »
I sent the amp my friend Demir Uyar he tried different speakers but the problem didnt solved.

We tried 9-10 different tube.

I asked the problem Nik. I'm going to rip bright caps.

I learn this morning the phase invertor's value was different then layout. My amp builder said This was not about the tone. But i think there may a problem.

Thanks.

Burak
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2010, 09:05:56 AM »
Burak, great that you got it solved. However, as JD0x0 said you gotta allow the amp time to burn in. I will mellow dramatically after 50-100 hours.

I read about a guy who attach a cd player with jazz guitar to mellow his amps.
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pismuzisyen
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2010, 07:53:26 PM »
I solved my problems today. My bass trimpod was 1 megaohm but it sould be 220k in the layout. I was thinking it is just about the bass but not. All trim pots related each others. when we change the trim to 220k my tone completely changed. So i m happy now Smiley
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clivekay
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2010, 05:42:39 PM »
Can someone tell me which pot adjusts what as there are 3 and the external OD drive pot ...
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Tone Control
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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2010, 06:17:40 PM »
have a look at the new BM manual Nik has provided.
I think the Bass one is the one you can get a screwdriver into, the other 2 have dimer attachments. mid is in the middle

From new, the OD was fine on mine, I rolled off the treble a little. but not all the way, and I dial the treble down on all my amps, so definitely not a fizzy amp.
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
exocet
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2010, 10:48:56 AM »
On a general note (and I'm not having a dig at anyone because mistakes happen) but it's always worth running through the components in your amp and validating against the layout that Nik produces.

I've had my OTS for over a year now and have been very happy with it - of course like anyone you always wonder whether a little tweak here or their might improve things even more. I have just upgraded the PSU caps to F&T not sure whether it was worth the effort but whilst doing it I wanted to familiarise myself with the main preamp assembly. I discovered that the slope resistor was 220 K rather than 150 K Specification. I'm going to change this to see if it has any impact on tone - techically it's increasing the impedance of the tonestack so I'm not expecting a massive change but you never know. As I say, it's always worth double checking your existing components before looking at other tweaks.
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erwin_ve
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2010, 11:22:19 AM »
Quote from: exocet on September 06, 2010, 10:48:56 AM
I discovered that the slope resistor was 220 K rather than 150 K Specification. I'm going to change this to see if it has any impact on tone - techically it's increasing the impedance of the tonestack so I'm not expecting a massive change but you never know. As I say, it's always worth double checking your existing components before looking at other tweaks.

150k vs 220k slope resistor has a big imapct on the sensitivity of the tonestack.

True; always double check the components. I've had several occasions where the value of a resistor or cap was out of its spec. Changing it to on spec made the amp more brown.
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JD0x0
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2010, 04:01:37 PM »
Quote from: erwin_ve on September 06, 2010, 11:22:19 AM
Quote from: exocet on September 06, 2010, 10:48:56 AM
I discovered that the slope resistor was 220 K rather than 150 K Specification. I'm going to change this to see if it has any impact on tone - techically it's increasing the impedance of the tonestack so I'm not expecting a massive change but you never know. As I say, it's always worth double checking your existing components before looking at other tweaks.

150k vs 220k slope resistor has a big imapct on the sensitivity of the tonestack.

True; always double check the components. I've had several occasions where the value of a resistor or cap was out of its spec. Changing it to on spec made the amp more brown.
+1 with the 220K youre getting alot less mids and bass. youre probably losing about 6db gain overall. I went from 150k to 90k and couldnt be happier. more bloom more sensativity and less "plastic" sounding mids
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exocet
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2010, 12:57:27 PM »
Changed the slope resistor and it has made a bigger impact than I thought.

1. More gain (probably due to more lower mids getting through tone stack)

2. It cured another issue that I had with the OD sound in that if I 'popped a string' by pulling it away from the fretboard and letting it snap back, it used to give a really nasty overtone - now it doesn't.

Overall, it's improved things for me - dare I say it the OD is less harsh!!

Worthwhile checking your amp against the published layout as my amp was built by Ceriatone.

Next thing I'm going to do is to change the 3K3 resistor in the power supply to 3K9 or 4K2 to see if I can get the anode voltages at V1, V2 and V3 a bit lower....moving into 'cork sniffing' territory now but who knows?
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