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Author Topic: Thicker Sound on S&M  (Read 11096 times)
Tom Vernon
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« on: March 31, 2011, 05:53:00 PM »
Hi there
Just wondering if anybody has any suggestions or pointers to past threads which might help me out. I’m trying to get a fatter, warmer, more gloopy!?,richer harmonically, sound out of my s&m50. At the moment it’s feeling  slightly boxy,nasal,flat. Sorry for the possibly unhelpful sound descriptions, not very scientific I know!  I’ve had a 3 way switch put in to change the slope resistor values between 150k,90k and 30k, which makes a big difference. I’ve also got a 3way switch on the mid cap, but tend to favour the original .001uf. I’ve been using a celestion gold, and recently tryed  my boogie’s speaker ( EV black shadow), which was a great improvement  IMO. It certainly had a lot more power, so the golds gone on ebay, to be replaced with an EVM12L, which I think is the same as the Black Shadow??
I’ve seen Pickmasters mod of putting a 3way switch across V1 which changes between 470pf, .05 mf and off.He mentions that this fattens the sound, so that might be a starting point. Also I’ve read that putting a 47pF or 68pF cap across the master opens the sound up. Does this give a similar effect to a bright switch?
Any pointers would be appreciated,
Thanks Tom
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Pickmaster
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2011, 08:56:27 AM »
Hello Tom,

First of all please remove 3way switch on slope resistor and put there 68k 2w metal film resistor. You can damage amp or yourself with this switch, 250v DC goes through it !!!

You can remove NFL from V1 or just put the switch there, it will increase the bass response.

Increase a value of decupling caps on both channels from 2,2mf to 10mf - more bass.

Increase a value of drive feed 0,005 cap to 0,01 – fatter overdrive

Hope this helps

Cheers
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Tom Vernon
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2011, 10:06:49 AM »
Hi Pickmaster
thanks for the heads up on the dangerous switch,and the other ideas too  :)Ideally I would like a few different values for the slope resistor, or even a variable resistor, do you know of a safe way to do this?
thanks man Cheesy
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Pickmaster
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2011, 11:19:23 AM »
Get a 10 Amper, high voltage three way toggle switch and put it under the chasse near slope resistor with thick wire.
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2011, 08:59:42 PM »
i had the same idea alte one sleep deprived night, Tom, until Pickmaste reminded me about the 200+ volts going through that circuit! I can tell you that, at least in my case burning the amp in for 40 hours or so has helped a ton. Hard playing for hours on end, and then playing some good jazz thru at moderate volumes at night while i sleep has made a big difference both in the amp and the speakers.
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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2011, 04:44:06 PM »
Yeah I agree it does sound better after time. its had quite a bit of burn, it gets at least 2hrs a day. Its pretty close to the sound i'm after, and i'm sure with a bit of tweaking it can be nailed. I'm not gonna use it for the moment though till I get that switch changed . I'm goin through cold turkey! It's been 2 days now....  Shocked
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JD0x0
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« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2011, 06:34:12 PM »
what do you want thicker? Clean tone? Overdrive? Both?

Some easy reversable mods I like are messing with the slope resistor (which will effect both) and the snubber caps which will effect the overdrive tone. To thicken it up i'd increase the value of the V2b snubber (one closer to the PI) to smooth out the highs a bit.
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Tone Control
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« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2011, 07:30:48 PM »
Quote from: Tom Vernon on March 31, 2011, 05:53:00 PM
Hi there
Just wondering if anybody has any suggestions or pointers to past threads which might help me out. I’m trying to get a fatter, warmer, more gloopy!?,richer harmonically, sound out of my s&m50. At the moment it’s feeling  slightly boxy,nasal,flat. Sorry for the possibly unhelpful sound descriptions, not very scientific I know!  I’ve had a 3 way switch put in to change the slope resistor values between 150k,90k and 30k, which makes a big difference. I’ve also got a 3way switch on the mid cap, but tend to favour the original .001uf. I’ve been using a celestion gold, and recently tryed  my boogie’s speaker ( EV black shadow), which was a great improvement  IMO. It certainly had a lot more power, so the golds gone on ebay, to be replaced with an EVM12L, which I think is the same as the Black Shadow??
I’ve seen Pickmasters mod of putting a 3way switch across V1 which changes between 470pf, .05 mf and off.He mentions that this fattens the sound, so that might be a starting point. Also I’ve read that putting a 47pF or 68pF cap across the master opens the sound up. Does this give a similar effect to a bright switch?
Any pointers would be appreciated,
Thanks Tom


what guitar and pickups are you using, and what is your normal goto amp setup?
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
Tom Vernon
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 12:40:24 PM »
Hi JD0x0
I guess the clean really. I like the character of the overdrive. Am I right in thinking that whatever I do to the clean will affect the overdrive anyway?

Hi Tone Control
I'm using a 77es335td with the original pickups. It's the model with coil tap, so I can get a single coil vibe. I use a clator, and an eventide H3000. As for the way I use the amp controls, it really varies a lot. I've been trying it at different settings to see what it can do.
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Tone Control
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2011, 07:11:27 PM »
Quote from: Tom Vernon on April 04, 2011, 12:40:24 PM
Hi JD0x0
I guess the clean really. I like the character of the overdrive. Am I right in thinking that whatever I do to the clean will affect the overdrive anyway?

Hi Tone Control
I'm using a 77es335td with the original pickups. It's the model with coil tap, so I can get a single coil vibe. I use a clator, and an eventide H3000. As for the way I use the amp controls, it really varies a lot. I've been trying it at different settings to see what it can do.

I haven't tried that model OTS. I saw a previous post that said they could not find a setting on it that worked when switched from clean to OD: each needed a diff EQ setting, and the OD was harsh. Can you get a good clean sound at all? If you are dialling out the harsh OD, that would mess up your clean. That's why I like the HRM BM

Having said that, I could get a sound working from my Fuchs ODS (non-HRM) and my standard OTS, but D-styles take some work to get your settings.
for me, on the non-HRM ones, I dial the left OD pot down, but that's just me. You have 4 or 5 pots to play with after all, before the EQ, so it needs some serious experimenting.

Does the PAB sound nasal, or the OD?
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Dr Tone Control, Strats mostly, prefer saturated clean tones, a little OD sometimes
BM50, JTM45, 36w EF86, DZ30, Expression, + non-Ceriatones (Matchless, Victoria, Wienbrock)
Just started with pedals a little after a 10 year purist spell, but usually just delay
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2011, 07:35:42 PM »
Quote from: Tone Control on April 04, 2011, 07:11:27 PM
Quote from: Tom Vernon on April 04, 2011, 12:40:24 PM
Hi JD0x0
I guess the clean really. I like the character of the overdrive. Am I right in thinking that whatever I do to the clean will affect the overdrive anyway?

Hi Tone Control
I'm using a 77es335td with the original pickups. It's the model with coil tap, so I can get a single coil vibe. I use a clator, and an eventide H3000. As for the way I use the amp controls, it really varies a lot. I've been trying it at different settings to see what it can do.

I haven't tried that model OTS. I saw a previous post that said they could not find a setting on it that worked when switched from clean to OD: each needed a diff EQ setting, and the OD was harsh. Can you get a good clean sound at all? If you are dialling out the harsh OD, that would mess up your clean. That's why I like the HRM BM

Having said that, I could get a sound working from my Fuchs ODS (non-HRM) and my standard OTS, but D-styles take some work to get your settings.
for me, on the non-HRM ones, I dial the left OD pot down, but that's just me. You have 4 or 5 pots to play with after all, before the EQ, so it needs some serious experimenting.

Does the PAB sound nasal, or the OD?


Just up the second snubber cap to taste - maybe from 270p to 500p or 800pf - no rules, just do what sounds best....
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Tom Vernon
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2011, 01:48:27 PM »
Hi Tone Control
Cheers for the intrest  Smiley
to be fair it's a great amp, and for me to say I can't get a good clean would be untrue. I'm just trying to get it closer to the sound in my head which is somewhere close to the first few bars of this



I tend not to change channel during a tune, I use the guitar vol to clean the sound up if I'm on the overdrive channel usually. The od sound I've been favouring, has the od trim on about 9oclock and the left od pot about the same. I've not used the PAB so much cause I like to have the EQ to experiment with.


Hi Bluesfenderman
Cheers I'm gonna have a 3 way switch put on the V2b snubber to try a few values there Smiley...........theres no deadly voltages on that one is there!? Shocked .....Does anybody have a schematic?
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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2011, 01:59:25 PM »
Quote from: Tom Vernon on April 08, 2011, 01:48:27 PM
Hi Bluesfenderman
Cheers I'm gonna have a 3 way switch put on the V2b snubber to try a few values there Smiley...........theres no deadly voltages on that one is there!? Shocked .....Does anybody have a schematic?

The voltage on V2b is around 200V and Lethal - BE CAREFULL !!

You can use pickmaster's schemo: http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=740.0
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Tom Vernon
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2011, 02:14:00 PM »
cheers man Smiley
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