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Author Topic: The Robben Ford-quest; how close can I get on a "standard" OTS?  (Read 36992 times)
Claws
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« on: October 28, 2010, 09:03:12 PM »

Like the subject says: how close can I get with the OTS? Suggested settings? Is the C-Lator a important ingredient of the sound?
Thanks!

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Hayden
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 10:29:33 PM »

The simple answer is yes. Settings? to taste but I just set everything vertically up and tweek from there. (Overdrive trim 9-11 oclock) (C-lator input 12-2, drive 12(vertically up) output = master volume)

but....... (there is always one of those)

For me (so this is just my opinion) I was looking for an easy (non-evasive) way to balance the volume between the overdrive and the clean channels and I have found that putting a 5751 in V2 does this and, by accident, also gets the overdrive channel close to RF dirty rhythm sound. This sounds good with single coil pup's however you do lose some gainy sustain from the 12AX7 to the 5751 change.
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erwin_ve
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2010, 08:27:12 AM »

You need a c-lator.

You also have to mod your amp.

Dropping string of the power supply:
1st resistor: 2k7

Resistor after v2b coupling cap: 150k
Snubbers: both 250pF(although 270pF will also be fine)
The cap that's on the mid switch: 390pF (silver mica)
Bright cap on the master is 68pF(silver mica)
Presence cap is 2,2uF

Mind this: This configuration is unusable without a c-lator/dumblelator.

Personally I also find it useful to make the NFB resistor 10K instead of 4,7k. This way I don't have to crank the presence control. My amp responds better to it.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 08:29:56 AM by erwin_ve » Logged
Emiel
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2010, 01:20:50 PM »

Really, really interesting! I'm also thinking of getting my OTS modded more to these specs but I don't have the skills/tools to do it!

p.s. Erwin, we should get together once more to compare our OTS amps..!
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Claws
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2010, 01:24:03 PM »

Thanks for your suggestions! These mods, mentioned: what will they do with the sound? How will my amp be different? Why are they no good without a dumbleator?

Do you prefer Kleinulator or C-laotor, or is either ok?


PS. I have a 2x12 cab with Vintage Celestions for my OTS.
Thanks.
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erwin_ve
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2010, 02:21:23 PM »

@Emiel: Off course, comparing would be nice. Meeting in November?

@Claws: I can describe what each component does, but that's probably not your question?
The overall sound is brighter and has a more focused upper midrange.

The amp does sound too bright when there is no c-lator, believe me it is a real nightmare. Like a boss Metal charger in its worst setting Grin
Together with the C-lator it's magic.

I prefer a C-lator; it has a much better feel. If you have Celestion vintage 30 I doubt this mod will work. (too bright; I recently did this mod by someone's OTS with v30)
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exocet
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2010, 04:14:04 PM »

Thanks for your suggestions! These mods, mentioned: what will they do with the sound? How will my amp be different? Why are they no good without a dumbleator?

Do you prefer Kleinulator or C-laotor, or is either ok?


Thanks.

C- Lator is better as it is valve (tube) based and will add a bit of compression / harmonic interest when driven.


In my view you need to have the G12-65H for 'the' Robben sound...there again which Robben sound are you looking for?

My OTS is pretty much standard spec, I use a Fuchs Verbrator in the loop, drive a 1 x G12 - 65 cab and set the knobs as:

Gain = 5
Treble = 3.5
Mid = 4
Bass = 3.5
Level = 4
Ratio = 6
Master = whatever I can get away with.....4 sounds really good
Presence = 3 (I prefer this to be low for OD sounds although I admit that clean sounds better when set at 7 / 8
Internal gain trim set at around 10 O'Clock (measures 27 K Ohm on a DMM in circuit)

I use a Richie Kotzen Telecaster that has a Single Coil sized Humbucker in the Bridge (Di Marzio Chopper T). I like to back the guitar volume off a bit.

I'm not particularly going for the Robben Ford sound but it's pretty damn close to my ears, there again the RF sound that I like is the more recent "Truth" era rather than the heavier tones e.g. Blue Line.

It's been said here before that the Robben Sound is as much to do with 'touch' rather than amp settings - vary your picking attack from very light to heavy so that you control the OD level in this way. It works for me - I find that I don't like too much OD on this amp - it just doesn't work, the sound goes too mushy and I attribute that to the Skyliner tonestack. When I do want a more 'Marshall OD Tone" I kick in the PAB & Mid Boost and then back the gain off on my guitar by 75%.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 04:18:13 PM by exocet » Logged
Claws
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2010, 07:10:44 PM »

Hi!

[/quote]

C- Lator is better as it is valve (tube) based and will add a bit of compression / harmonic interest when driven.


In my view you need to have the G12-65H for 'the' Robben sound...there again which Robben sound are you looking for?



I really like all of his sounds, but my "first-Robben" was "Handful of Blues". But the sound in my mind with the OTS are especially the "New Morning" live stuff. Seems a lot brighter than earlier sounds of him.

Here´s a example of how my rig sounds with the Vintage30´s right now, without C-lator. Only pedals are Hermida Reverb and Wapler echo. MIND this is recorded in a small concerthall, not so good for drums etc as you know!








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erwin_ve
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2010, 07:25:13 PM »


I really like all of his sounds, but my "first-Robben" was "Handful of Blues". But the sound in my mind with the OTS are especially the "New Morning" live stuff. Seems a lot brighter than earlier sounds of him.

Here´s a example of how my rig sounds with the Vintage30´s right now, without C-lator. Only pedals are Hermida Reverb and Wapler echo. MIND this is recorded in a small concerthall, not so good for drums etc as you know!

That's a nice sound. If you're happy with it, you probably don't want to change a thing.
If you want exactly the same circuit as RF used the last 2 cd's, follow the mods I wrote a few posts earlier, use a dumblelator/clator and g12-65 speakers.
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Claws
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2010, 08:14:35 PM »

Thanks! You mentioned that the mods will not do with the V30´s? I am SO disappointed with the G12-65 that I got for my Framus 1x12 cab. I have a G12-100 (1980´s) waiting for my Two Rock design cab, according to Celestion that should be in between the V30 and 65, but for me the 65 didn´t work at all. I had, and gigged it, for about 15 hours, but it always felt like it was so much "in the box", the v30´s feels much more punchy and in-your-face (like the Vibro king, that´s been my main amp for the last 10 years.)

BUT I AM really pleased with the OTS. Last gig was great, and I would like to share a another clip that shows great cleans; and a lot of dynamics during the song. A great amp, really.....  No stompboxes here btw.

Greetings from Sweden!


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bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2010, 11:23:56 PM »

jätta bra!!!  Grin

Very nice clean and OD sounds. Is that a 50w or 100w amp?

Sounds great.

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Respect for the big guy's work....we're at this part of the forum because of HAD's amps.
Claws
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2010, 11:33:04 PM »

Very nice clean and OD sounds. Is that a 50w or 100w amp?

Tack! It´s a 50 W, standard OTS through a 2x12 Fendercab with Vintage 30´s (X-tra cab for the VK). Here's another clean/dirty clip....


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Pickmaster
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« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2010, 01:58:00 PM »

Miket bra min ven! himelska tone!
Nice band.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 02:22:13 PM by Pickmaster » Logged

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exocet
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« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2010, 07:51:46 PM »

Nothing wrong with that sound, both cleans and OD are fantastic.

You know, I think that we all get a bit too critical when it comes to judging the sound of our amps - the OTS is a wonderful amp for many different music genres, granted it takes a little bit of getting used to and you have to find the 'sweet spots' but once you do, it's a real head turning sound especially when played at gig volumes.

My view now is that I'm better off spending more time on my playing (which is full of 'issues') and less time spent worrying about whether changing the bypass capacitor on V2b to 2.2uF is going to make things any better. Smiley



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mr fabulous
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 10:01:23 AM »

my thoughts......regardless of the mods i have found that the pickups in your guitar will influence the amp the most.....especially humbuckers.....i have found that PAF like humbuckers are the best to achieve the robben tone....although my yamaha SG also gets close too. ... albeit the yamaha pups have quite high output.

i would suggest using some nice alnico pickups in your guitar and the rest is up to you and your hands.  PAF's are great for this amp as they have clarity and match the amp well when it comes to the touch sensitivity from clean to dirty just by changing your touch and picking.

RF has many great tones on his albums and i guess like all of us... he changes his settings for each song and type of guitar depending on what is required.


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