Ceriatone Forum

I'm in a quandry, there are far too many choices. I can rule out Jensen P10R's since I already have a 4x10 cab ready but its not covered in the right colour to go with my Overtone (cab not made yet) I'm going to make a 2x12 cab and a combo and see which I like best.

I'm hearing a lot of good things about Emi RW&B, and not just in here, and also Texas Heat's. So for my 2x12 I think I'm going to go with one of each since the Texas is supposed to have a bigger bottom end and the RW&B a brighter top. I know the Texas Heat is less efficient but I'm not sure thats going to make a lot of difference.

For the combo I'll try each in turn I think.

Any other suggestions, I know a G12-65 is well thought of, but is acknowledged not to have the top end of the RW&B. What about G12H Heritage? And Weber speakers? So many choices, but the Eminence are better priced in the Uk than the  Celestions, about 2/3rds the cost so I'm drawn to them.

OF course I could just use two the same!!

Thanks

Hywel Harris

i'm not sure 10s are a good choice for a dumble though they probably would sound great for the clean channel when it's pushed. I can't help you with the british speakers other than the 1265 because that's the only one I've played with a d-clone amp. The 1265 is the best speaker other than an EV for the robben sound but overall I don't like it. Sounds awful with a strat IMO. I don't think you'll need any more bottom than what a RW&B speaker has. Not sure a texas speaker would be a great match for a d-clone amp either.

LOL and I just ordered a cab with 2 Celestions G12-65's Bummer.

Larry Carlton's tech has some interesting remarks about his cab. EVM-12L
http://mr335.tv/index.html?req=1&station=rig&video=mr335/interview/335tv_amplification

I'm running an old Marshall 2x12 with my Overtone (arrived yesterday  :chairdance:) which has a G12-65 & a Vintage 30- and sounds amazing even at the very low volume I'm having to play at home- however I'm about to give my Overtone a good thrashing at a local gig tomorrow night- it's in a huge hall so I'll give a report afterwards if your interested - I'm also going to try a pair of Celestion Blues in an old Vox cab this Saturday- could be very interesting... 8)  But choosing the right speaker is super important IMHO...

I'd be very interested in how both the Marshall cab and the Blues perform. Don't turn it right up though with the Blues! I don't think my budget will stetch to two of those, I could have another Ceriatone for that price.

Cheers

Hywel Harris

I have a Jensen C12K that came out of my old Fender DRRI.
Mounted it in a homemade cabinet and it sounds great at low
volumes.
Couldn't test at a higher volume because it was late in the evening.

Don't sweat it Steve, this is definitely a matter or taste. I swapped out my Alnico Tone Tubby for a 1265 and it has now become one of my favorite speakers. It adds body and depth to a strat and is not biting like many other speakers. I guess it depends on your ears and what your looking for, but I don't think you'll be disappointed. I think I can nail some delicious blues tones and some clean Mayer tones as well.

Check out some of Marin's clips with a strat, overtone, and a 1265 on either youtube or the topic on cabinets.

I'm really liking the G12-65 speaker, but I have  never tried a EVM-12L.

Can someone explain the difference between the two to me?

thanks

Marin

I want to second Marin's comments here. I love these clips of a EVM12-L in a 1x12 (different D-clone though), but wonder if such a high wattage capable speaker will sound this good at low volumes too...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=120568&content=songinfo&songID=6458429 (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=120568&content=songinfo&songID=6458429) -Clean tone
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=120568&content=songinfo&songID=6458866 (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=120568&content=songinfo&songID=6458866) -Blues tone

Thoughts?
JT

Yeah, every one is talking well about the EV as a high powered professional speaker (200W, nice cleans, headroom, etc....).

I'm not sure that I need that. Lets face it: I am a home player now.

Even the G12-65 is quite powerful for a home studio environment and I am actually planning to put it in a iso-cab. I find that it is well EQ-ed for me even at low volumes. Does the EV need to be cranked to sound good?

I'm wondering if the EV can be of interest to me if needs to be a concert-stage volume level?

Am wrong/right/saying BS?


M.

Marin,
Since I plan to build my own 1x12 for whatever speaker this search results in, I have been reading a variety of web articles. While this one is a bit basic for my needs, I did find it a chuckle.

http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/speaker_design.html (http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/speaker_design.html)

JT

Those clips do sound good. I especially liked the clean tone - tons of low end but not farty.
Although, I think alot of that tone can be attributed to that ported Hermidia cab. Yes the speaker sounds good too, I'm just saying that cab is also a huge factor.

I am using the EVM-12L and it sounds great both at home and in the 1000 seat auditorium I play at regularly.   At low and high volumes the tones are great from this speaker.  I built a hardwood combo amp for the Overtone and this is the speaker that is mounted in the cab.

I have not compared it with the G12-65.  I guess I'm not planning to make this comparison because I'm satisfied with the EVM.  I do have a Celestion Classic Lead 80 that does sound nice with the Overtone and I use this in an extension cab when playing in a large place.   

From what I've read and the clips I've listened to, the G12-65 also sounds very good.

does the EVM have a smooth, pronounced midrange and rolled off high?

I completely agree that the cab plays a major role in the performance of the speaker. I have some small experience in designing and building speaker enclosures for multi-driver full range audio, and am fairly comfortable with how the various types of enclosures can affect the power handling and frequency response.
Based on the responses to this thread, and others pursuing a similar goal (that of great sound from a Ceriatone OTS through a 1x12), I plan to build my own cab to best suit that goal. So far the clips of the EVM-12L through the Hermidia ported cab are in first place IMHO.
I have found the exterior dimensions for that cab, and can get very close on the diam. of the ports from the images. I may have to play a bit with the length of the port tubes, but that is not hard to do.
My largest concern centered on the power handling of the EVM-12L (200W) and if that would negatively effect its quality at lower volumes. In many high-fi audio drivers high power handing is achieved with very stiff cones and surrounds, resulting in poor low volume performance and the side effect of lowering speaker efficiency. Although I have not been able to find a db SPL rating for the EVM, based on the very large magnet and cast aluminum basket, it appears these are the way EV has gone to maintain high efficiency and power handling at the same time. If that is the case, the driver "should" still sound good at lower levels...
Since I still have 9 weeks left until my OTS is delivered, the search continues!

JT

Marin,  I would say yes to the smooth, pronounced midrange and rolled off highs as characteristics of the EVM.  I have not seen a graph of the frequency response of this speaker, but my own ears are sending signals that trigger some pleasing neurotransmitters in my brain.  It makes me want to keep playing just to hear the tones.

I'm enjoying your YouTube clips.  Great playing and great tone.  Keep them coming.


I bought the EVM-12L after reading several comments from the ampgarage forum regarding speaker selection.  I read somewhere that this was Alexander Dumble's speaker of choice for his amps.

I also agree that the cabinet design is a significant factor in the tone.  I would add that the type of wood used in the speaker cabinet can enhance or diminish certain frequencies.  I think the same attention we give to woods in a guitar should be also given to the woods of the cab.  My preference is for tone woods (I've used maple, bubinga, purple heart, teak, and padouk).  I think these sound better and look great.  I'm somewhat surprised that almost every amp manufacturer uses tolex over some type of wood.  It's probably significantly more expensive to use more expensive woods and not be able to cover up mistakes.  I don't see anyone playing a guitar with fabric or tolex covering the wood.

I only have a few hours in on my new Overtone Special but I have used that time to see what kind of tone you can get with some different speakers. I have a 2x12 Avatar (open back) Cabinet with a Vintage 30 and a G12H30 and I have a 2X12 combo amp with two vintage  Rola Celestion G12-65s. After AB'ing them, the Avatar Cab sounds much better. Putting all 4 in parallel at 4 ohms does not seem to improve the overall sound much, if at all.  I am using very articulate cables (George L 1.55 guitar to amp, Mogami speaker connection) for the Avatar cab, and a less articulate cable to the Rolas so the jury is not totally out yet.  What can say is that the Avatar/V30/G12H combo sounds very, very good (It also sounds very good with my THD Bivalve).  This combo has a nice tight bottom end,  a very smooth transition to break up and very articulate highs, good harmonics, and no harshness at any volume. At this point I would not hype the G12-65 as THE speaker. My guess is there are a lot of speaker and /or speaker combinations that make sense for this amp. It is also my guess that this amp will make almost any speaker (with an adequate rating) sound good. It is just a matter of how good you want to sound!

I'm using 2 separate poplar cabs with a 12-65 and an EV.  Together they sound awesome.  Separate they sound good.  The EV is an old Boogie 200 watt Black Shadow.  Not sure if it's the same as new EVs.

I'm getting the 100 watts Bluesmaster. What about a combination of the 12-65 and the EVM-12L? Would that be recommended? And are we talking about the classic or black label EV?

Good point! Thanks, ToneQuest!

I play mostly Strats and I love my OTS through two (2) 1x12 cabs.  One cab is loaded with a EVM12l and other is a Two Rock Sig Cab with their 1265R.  The two come together real nice for me.  If I only had one choice, would be EVM12l for my tone needs. 

So is it Two-Rocks own speaker or is it a celestion? Is it like ToneQuest suggests, that the EV takes out the 12-65 in volume?

 The two rock g-12-65  are made by Warehouse guitar speakers ( the ols TR 65's were made by eminence BTW) and are clones of the Celestion Heritige G-12-65 with a slightly different cone.

My amp is an ODS 50 watt.   I have a 10 tone tubby hemp cone used in combo with an old celestian G35 10 and they sound awesome.   If I want more bottom I also used an old cube Mesa 12 inch cab with a 100 watt celestian.   I have tried eminence, and weber svt, all tone 12, and on and on.   I really like the tone of the tone tubby and the speaker distortion I can get with the celestian at lower volumes.  I especially like the weight factor in my combo

the g12-65 is a nice speaker at  low and moderate volumes however you just lose the sparkle at higher volumes. hence peoples preference for the EVM-12l.  as i turn my g1265 up it colors the sound too much and becomes muddy. so i plan to use the g12-65 in a second cab for gigs  to give me extra oomph. ... and i am putting an evm 12l in the combo for everything else. i believe the evm will not change its characteristics too much as its turned up.

once it arrives and i have it fitted i will post my opinions .

The EVM12L is a completely different speaker. It has way more highs and less low end compared to the G12-65.
F.e. cleans with EVM12L has a different tonal pallette; it's like playing a completely different amp.

Hi Guys,

i think I've posted this before for speaker comparison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK0sa7tlfI

Now some experience shearing:
We have built two 4x10 cabs for very dedicated player from Portugal. One with Jensen tornados and another one with Celestion gold’s – GOLDS are the best – period!
Jensens were bit dark but cab is much lighter than with gold.

All time champion was vertical (Robben style open back)  2x12 with EV on the bottom and Fane 12AXA alnico on the top. HUGE sound and very balanced, sweet tone. Speakers were 16 ohm each. They were in parallel for 8ohm and safety if one blows (which is unlikely). But downside is that cab is VERY heavy, two heavy speakers plus 18mm Baltic birch plywood.
Another great 2x12 is Celestion G12-65s  or Alnico Ggolds or if you are looking for huge lows than Celestion G12 K-100s.
For the lighter 2x12 cab Jensen tornados are great, very smooth tone.
My personal favorite is small, closed back, front ported, tuned cab with EV or new Fane studio 12L speaker (http://www.faneinternational.com/images/axiom_studio_12l_back.jpg).

Portugal, you say? Well, seems we have quite a ceriatone OTS fan base around these parts...  :) 

On the topic, I made myself a 2x12" cab based around the TL806 design (actually, a couple of these boxes in the same enclosure) and loaded it with two Eminence Delta Pro12a speakers. It sounds TERRIFIC with the OTS! It's got this loud, clear and assertive tone. Huge low end, no mid humps, no bright spikes. Beautiful.

It is quite heavy though. I wonder how the Tornados or the deltalites would compare...

I spent  a good part of 4 days swappign different WGS speakers in and out of my morgan 2x12 cabinet. I found that the punch mids in the veteran 30s gave the overdrive channel what i was looking for with all switches down and the "boost", or eq delete, engaged. The veteran 30s are slightly different from the celestions - they don't have the upper mid "peak" that you hear in the new v30's - they are much smoother like a broken in v30.

Does the Veteran 30 colour your tone? From my experience the Celestion Vintage 30 speaker adds a certain flavour which makes the overall sound real mid heavy so you lose clarity and sparkle when playing clean.... overdriven it sounds quite good but it will make the cleans sound a bit dull imo...

I use Celestion G12-65 Heritage speakers which I really like with my OTS...

i have the EVM12L in my HRM for about a week and wow!! what a difference!!...its like the amp had opened up. i have used it with my band pon two occasions... and have to say the amp sounds louder and punchier. i also used the G12-65 (which i had in there before) in a separate 112 cab together with the EV and that is VERY nice...they complement each other well

but the EV is THE speaker to use with this amp.

IMO the Ev's are steller for headroom.  The 65's are nice for low level OD, they do something weird @ high volumes ( then again I play really really loud. Its all Personal preference I guess. 

a man after my own heart!!! i said it too about the 65's... they lose definition and just sound kinda flabby at high volumes.

the EV is perfect at any volume

I had the impression you use a EVM12L and a Celestion 12-65 in one cab? Do you like it?

 I ran an 8ohm Ev and a 16ohm 65 in parallel in a 2x12 cab for a while. It was nice but lacked something because the impedance was off, I usually ran the OT @ 8ohms with that. After a bit I started using an additional 16ohm 65 in parallel with the 8ohm Ev and 16ohm 65 ( so 3 speakers in total ) . I wasn't getting enough clean headroom ( although the OD was very tasteful ). Clean Headroom is 1st and foremost in my rig so I opted for another Ev ( got it for $100 shipped ) and scraped the two g1265's.

 All and all I prefer the Ev's, IMO they offer a sound no other speaker can rival. I hope 2 try out some Tonetubby HEMPCONE's in a 2x12 in the future for an alternate ( or additional ) cab . The only thing I have a problem with is the frigging 40 lb's of speakers + the 60 lb's of cabinet but I am willing to carry it because it sounds so damn tasteeeaaa.....................

yes i have an EV in the combo cab and a 65 in a 1x12. they sound great together...both 16ohm so i run the amp at 8ohm when have both on

you are right though..... my back is taking a beating with the EV in it!!

  Indeed so, the EV is pretty heavy.

  Anyone tried the amp with one of those new lightweight magnets?

Thanks!

Nik

Nik,

What lightweight magnets are you referring to? A Neodymium magnet? Could you please elaborate? Or send me a link?  ;D

I am interested ... I just need an alternate (or additional) cab with lightweight speakers.

Thanks :D

yeah i think Nik is refering to neo speakers which can be lighter due to their power they can use smaller magnets.

I'm now running a 4x12 with WGS ET-65's with my HRM50.
It sounds huge and only slightly heavier and easier to lift than my old 2x12 cab.

g12-65 arem't that heavy. I have a 2x12 cab which is pretty light and I'm old (52) ;-)

Neodymiums are great speakers, my favorites are Jensen Jet Tornado 100w 98db and Celestion Century 80w 102db. Very fast and punchy response. They are great in 2x12 or even better in 4x12.

This blue cab is 2x12 Centuries and weights only 19kg with speakers and built in mics.
(http://www.guitarampcab.com/FRONT1.JPG)

This one is Jensen Tornado 1x12 very light but awesome sounding speaker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKb8_aRhT5U&feature=player_embedded

I put two Jensen Neo's in an oval back Avatar Cab and they are not a good match for the OTS in my opinion. Very bright top, harsh mid and little low end. I will be selling the pair shortly.

Jensen neo and Jensen jet Tornado neo are different speakers !!!
Tornado is very balanced with great bass and smooth top and, very punchy and articulate (as hopefully you hear from the video clip).