Ceriatone Forum

Alright you guys so how do you like yours tonewise compared to your other amps or other amps you've tried? I'm 20 years old and have been playing since i was 12, I've always been a big brand name guy, I've owned a Crate Blue Voodoo head, Fender Cyber Twin, Vox AC30, Marshall TSL100, Mesa Dual Rectifier, now a Mesa Stiletto. All have been sold or swapped in trades for the amp listed after it. So I know what tones are out there. I've played some Plexi's, I love the Fender Deluxe Reverbs I've played and Fenders new Super Sonic is decent, but how does the Overtone compare to everything else that's out there?

Im a huge blues/jazzy fan. Its almost all i really play anymore, the only reason i own the Stiletto is because i played in a touring hard rock band. Now that I'm done with that i want something smaller with a better clean tone for blues.....mesa stilettos aren't the best for that and along with that its 150 watts, I'm gonna be going to Berklee College of Music in Boston next year so i don't want something that loud....just isn't practical. Im probably the biggest fan of John Mayer's tone that i know of and I'm wondering how good you can hit that tone with this amp. I talked to Nik and he said some of his tones are in there but what do you all think? This will be my first amp that hasn't been something typical like Fender or Mesa or some huge big name like that so I'm being cautious.

Thanks in advance!
-Chris

John Mayer uses Two Rock amps which are based on Dumble circuits, as is the Ceriatone OTS. I may be generalizing here, but what folks look for from this type of amp is the nice fat, warm, overdrive sound made popular by players like Larry Carlton (think old Steely Dan records) and Robben Ford. Not too crunchy, but sort of violin-like and singy, if that makes sense.

If that sound appeals to you, the OTS is a geat amp. Personally, I live there. It's not, however, a modern rock/metal tone at all.

Hey Chris,

  You do realize that you aren't going to have anyone here tell you that the OT isn't THE perfect amp for you.......lol........right?  

If you read here and elsewhere you will find that the Overtone unlike your Mesa has both stellar cleans and an impressive array of gain tones.  The amp's EQ section is comprehensive and allows for an almost infinite range of tone possibilities.  And if that's not enough flexibility for you there are plenty of well documented mods to the various sections of the circuit.  This, in fact, is the true beauty of the ODS circuit.....it begs to be tweaked.  

At only 20 you already have an impressive history with some fine amps.  What's next is something only you can decide.  But in my opinion the Overtone is a very versatile and capable platform for expressing the tones that live within you.

Cheers,

  ChrisL

Yeah i definitely understand it's not a modern rock amp, because a modern rock amp i already have and its not doing what i want it to do. I rarely ever use anything over a bluesy overdrive so my Mesa really isnt getting the use it really deserves.

Im thinking the Overtone is definitely something i should invest in here pretty soon, it sounds like what im looking for. How much did you all spend on yours including shipping?

well i have an old hiwatt, and a 74 Marshall JMP. i love the sound of the OT over both those amps.

although sometimes i use the hiwatt as a clean amp to widen my setups sound

Awesome man, I was thinkin of going with a Plexi as well. Im leaning more towards the OT though, it sounds like it would be a great amp for what im lookin to do. I want something that sounds good at bedroom volumes and has a great bluesy tone but can also be loud enough if i wanna do a gig at a club or bar or something along the lines of that. Good tone is where its at though, if it sounds good at bedroom levels and even better during a gig then I'm sold.

Sounds like you're after the same tone as I am and I think you'd be more than happy with the OTS.

I'm having to save for mine, and it's taking forever due to various other things that keep coming up (my car seems to not want me to have a new amp - new exhaust, tires, brakes etc and that's just in the last 3 months!!) but I'm dead set on an OTS and am confident that with a few mods I can get as close as my ears can tell (and as close as you can get without spending Two Rock money) to the John Mayer tone.

By the by, which album's tone do you like best, because from what I've read (which is a lot!!) on Heavier Things he almost exclusively used an original Dumble for all the electric guitar tones.

Also, see my thread "How Fender can the OTS get?"... it covers the same sort of ground as here.

A lot of the people on here seem to be searching for that Robben Ford tone, which is a great tone no mistake, but it seems to me that the OTS is capable of a LOT more, especially once you take into account the mods that are possible.

Ugh gotta hate unexpected expenditures when youre trying to save up for something. What mods are you thinking for the OTS for a closer Mayer tone??

As for a tone i like best im definitely gonna have to go with Continuum. Heavier Things was a great album but i think the effects he used kinda put a blanket over his tone. The tone on Slow Dancing and Im Gonna Find Another You is exactly what im looking for. His tone on Belief and Bold as Love is nice too.

Sorry to put a dampener on your enthusiasm but an amp that sounds good at bedroom levels is unlikely to sound good at gig or even rehearsal levels. Get yourself a 5watt or less  single ended amp for the quiet (tho 5 watts is anything but quiet) levels and the OTS for rehearsal/gigs. The OTS really needs to be pushed to get the great tone out of it as I found out the other evening at rehearsal (until they told me to TURN IT DOWN) I'm still considering fitting PowerScaling to mine so I can get good tone at rehearsal volumes, but its quite a lot for the top of the range LondonPower circuitry and to pay a good tech to fit it.

The RF thing so many are seeking is what you'll get from the OTS od channel quite easily right out of thre box but John Mayer, maybe not. I'm a fan of Matt Schofield who also uses a TR and he has a 5751 in the V2 position and it cleans up the od channel beautifully, much more like Mayer I think.

If only someone built a clone of a Two Rock, or Dumble Steel String Slinger..

Nik you listening??

(j/k btw I know Nik is extremely busy these days!!)

I respectfully disagree.  As one who has spent more time playing in, than playing out, I have discovered many ways to get good tones at acceptable home levels.  Now I am NOT saying whisper levels, but I am saying acceptable and fully functional in a multi member home.

On the Overtone:

With Overdrive:  The ratio control gives you a considerable amount of control.  The OD begins to sing with the volume around 4 to 5.  I keep the master near 5 as someone has said the levels of the Kleinulator and effects are appropriate as a result of that setting. The ratio turned down to where the sounds just opens up is a very acceptable home level, with a closed door and the neighbors will never know you are playing.  I live in a house, not an apartment, however.

Clean: On clean tones, I prefer a smooth tone, not barking and abrupt.  Low mids helps that as does a low guitar volume.  the amp is still set on 4 ish on the volume and 5 on the master but very low around 1.5 to 2 on the guitar volume.  The signal from the guitar is low, smooth and sweet but the amp is singing its voice so the tone is very rich but smoooooth.  I have played my 335 like that for years on clean with other amps.  The tone is remarkable.

These work for me and I get very nice sounds at acceptable levels. What you cannot do is get some natural drive from loud volumes on the clean channel...or I haven't figured out how(without an attenuator)...but properly using the overdrive and ratio substitutes quite nicely for that.  The Overtone can accomplish very nice tones at home levels.  Necessity is the mother of invention. ;D

Regards,
Casken

I'm a huge John Mayer's tone too and I have a Overtone (I purchased the Overtone with the hope to approach his tone)

First time I plugged my Overtone I was impressed the clean channel is great (very fenderish) etc but past the excitement of a new gear I have to admit that the Overtone doesn't do the "John Mayer's Tone", I'm really disappointed with the OD channel !

Why ? Because the Overtone has so much highs and treble on the OD channel (it's sounds aggressive). I've already change the OD trimmer for less gain et a smoother sound but it's still to edgy.

The amp still need some tweak. I'm currently selling some gear to get some cash to buy some other stuff (other guitar) and to mod the amp with my amptech.

My amp have the actual layout from Ceriatone (which contain a big part of J.Zucker mods). But it's still to edgy. For those who's wondering I mainly play stratocasters through an old 4x12 Marshall Cabinet loaded with G12-65 or a 1x12 with a EVM-12L (these speakers are not "harsh/trebble" speakers !

I'm sure I can get closer to a Two Rock with a few tweaks for the OD channel I don't think it will sound like the real thing but I'm sure I can get close.

Keep in mind that John Mayer doesn't really use his OD Channel, he mainly use his two rock as clean amp and running his pedal through it (T808, Marshall BB-1, Keeley Katana, Keeley Blues Driver and Hermida Zendrive) for his dirty sound.

His Two Rock's signature is mostly a Clean amp !

For instance I'm also playing the Overtone on the clean channel and running my pedal through it (Fulldrive 2, a Xotic BB Preamp and also a Marshall compressor).

With the Fulldrive and a Strat I can get pretty close to "Good Love Is On The Way" type of tone. But if you want something more "liquid" / "cooler" / "smoother" it's another story. The only way I find is to roll of the volume knob of my guitar pretty low and dial with the tone controls of my strat. But when you do that you miss a lot of precision in your sound and it's doesn't sound very good.

I think that for a John Mayer tone, you can also go for a Super Reverb / Twin maybe a Bassman or a Pro Reverb with few pedals, and you will get close too.

I really dig the Two Rock Custom Reverb Signature sound but the Ceriatone doesn't do it (I'm not bashing the Overtone it's just doesn't suit my taste for the moment).

After the tweak were done (if you have any suggestion about tweaks / mods please tell me), I will make a review of the Overtone and I hope I will be 100% satisfied.

That was my opinion ;)

Nathan,
   We all definately have target sounds we are looking for but I love the OD channel.  One of (among many) the tones I really like is quite similar to "Reeling in the Years" Steely Dan type.  I hit with my LP and it is very nice to my ears anyhow.
   I haven't found the tones to be harsh at all.  I am using a Kleinulator and Reverb the former of which I am told fattens the sound a bit.  The OD sounds are better with buckers, however, to me at least.  I use some light drive and no boost with my Strat, just enough to know it is there...no more.
    I have found some VERY nice warm ever so slightly driven tones with my Strat, again this is all very subjective, but I can't help but think that tone is in there somewhere.  I really like what my ears are hearing.  I am using a combo cab that has a v30 and G12h30 Celestions combo.  I won't say it nails that fat Mayer tone but it is certainly very nice and in the ballpark.
   Have you tried rolling back the mids to near nothing.  Using moderate Treble (5ish) and a little more Bass?  My Strat sounds incredible...no kidding.  I get some very nich tones doing the Hendrix, SRV Mayer type thing.

Before you do any mods try a 5751 in the V2 position with the trimmer at 8:30-9:00. YOu could also try and AT7 in V2 without doing any harm but that is a lot lower gain, you might have to turn the trimmer up a notch. I also think the TR are voiced differently, the clean is brighter and less warm than an OTS, but there does appear to be significant differences between different Ceriatone OTS's

Another thing I'm going to try is an AT7 in the PI position, not sure what the effect will be but will let you know when I do. (It will be a while, I need to try it at rehearsal, home volumes won't really tell you much)

It's kinda strange that I'm the only one who have some prob with the OD brightness.

My Kleinulator doesn't work (the little chip in it has blow when I first put on the divice, I must receive another chip in few days). The Kleinulator should smooth a bit the amp but will affect both clean and OD channel.


Hywelg, is the 5751 a 12AT7 ?

Thanks for your advices ;).

Strange that you have a problem with the OD, I run my OTS stock (but build after the latest layout), and i mainly play my amp with my telecaster...

My OD isn't bright at all... rich and fat with the deep switch on, bright off and rock on... but when it's with deep off, bright on and rock on, its off course a more bright/trebly, but not harsh... Stills sounds excellent...

Maybe its just a matter of taste... or maybe there is a big difference between the OTS amp ??? :)


By the way, I get pretty close to the John Mayer tone, on the clean channel using a TS808 and a T-rex dr.swamp... Volume 6,5 Treble 4,5 Mid 4,5 Bass 3 Bright off Deep on/off(either way sounds john mayerish :) ) Rock on...
Master above 1 and presence at 4,5

/René

Are you using a dumbleator or a kleinulator ?

Maybe it will resolve my problem !

No I have nothing in the fx loop, only pedals in front... so no kleinulator

/René

No the 5751 has a slightly lower gain than an AX7 where the AT7 is quite a lot lower.

Hi there,  
Preamp tubes choice in the OTS makes a BIG difference to the character of this stunning amp.
Although you can coax great tones easily from the OTS, it`s important to experiment with tonestack combinations to get to where you want to be.
A Tele sounds awesome through the OTS, but only if the tonestack is adjusted properly to suit, and when you get it right,.. the tone`s right on the nail.
A tweakers amp for sure.!
a 335 sounds just as good, but with the obvious adjustments to suit the pickups & guitar etc.

Preamp tube info.
12AX7 has a 100/100 gain factor & will drive the amp harder than other preamp tube variations.
The 12AX7 LPS (long plate spiral) is a 12AX7 worth a try in (V1).
Quite smooth, warm and vintage sounding.

5751 is not a 12AX7 type but a compatible substitute.
70/100 gain factor. Slightly less gain ie: 70%.
5751 has a smoother linear quality to its tone character & clips smoothly.
Stevie Ray Vaughan favoured this tube in the(V2) of his blackface amps for a little more clean headroom and a smoother tone.

12AY7 60/100 gain factor (60%) of what the 12AX7 delivers.  Also very compatible substitute for the12AX7 & produces a nice warm round tone.

12AT7. 45/100 gain factor. usually good for reverb and PI positions.
You could try one in the PI (phase invertor) position, but the 5751 or 12AY7 is probably a better choice for experimenting in this positiojn for the OTS.

12AU7. 20/100 with a low gain factor of only 20%
This is a low gain tube with a warm vintage tone, but not much push.

A 12AU7 in (V1) of a Fender Tweed blues deville running the main vol pot on a setting of 8 or 9 & the amp was sounding very open, warm with just a hint of very natural overdrive and the overall volume was about perfect for a gig.
With a 12AX7 in (V1)with the Devilles,. you couldn`t get the vol pot above 3 without splitting ear drums..!!

Pre amp tubes are a relatively effective & cheap way to experient and get some good tone & gain variations.

Thanks for your help I will check this.

Very useful info bluestone, thanks very much.

great info.  thank you.

To Chris  --  there are a number of video clips on Youtube featuring the OTS. Search for marinblues, or go to the Soundclips page on the Ceriatone website.

django8,

Thanks man i checked a few videos out on there and the amp sounds fairly nice. For the tones im looking for ive been battling with the idea of getting:

1. The overtone
2. A vintage Fender Twin or Super Reverb with a Keeley modded TS808.

I suppose getting all of the above isn't an option??  ;D

Hahaha oh man i wish. That would be nice

Kleinulator will warm things up.

There are also other possibilities, like treble bleed network on OD ch for example.

A Super reverb sounds nothing like a Twin reverb and of these which models ???? a red knob twin vs a tan super..........With or without a tube screamer.
May as well suggest a ots with a ts-808.
With an open back cab mounted with 2x12jbls  or 4X10 jensens. The difference in the amps would be canceled out by the speakers.

 These styles of amps are designed to sound good in a live/gig situations. Hearing them in context of a midi/backing track is meaningless. Unless you want to use your amp for that.

There are many times a one amp that you did not like, will sound better in certain situations. Believe me I have done enough gigs and recording to know this.

The OTS is a versatile amp. Be prepared for it to show all the glitches nuance in your playing in a similar way to an AC-30. If you want the amp to to help you through go down the mesa road.

Yes sir...like no other.  It transfers the guitar voice and activity of the strings and fingers like no other amp I have played.

When talking about John Mayer one needs to be careful, because you dont want to come across as one of those try-hard fan boys that just want to BE HIM...so many kids out there just want all his gear and think that it will make them sound good (not accusing you of that at all!)

but in my opinion, as a blues player, I believe the tone he achieves is simply some of the best going around to my ears...

I would prefer my ceriatone, once i get it, to be voiced as similarly to his two-rocks/dumble ODS as humanly possible....getting info on them is very difficult however, im not too sure what era Dumble ODS he has or how it has been voiced :P

but yeah i feel you mate, who wouldnt want to hit this tone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcgeNeCh5CA&feature=related

pickmasters mods seem to come the closest to voicing the OTS in this direction i think...

Haha most definitely not a fanboy haha. Fan yes, but thats a different story. Im also a big fan of SRV's tone so today i actually went on ebay and got a Fender Super Reverb. Used by both Mayer and SRV for some of their tones, i figured it would be a better buy for me and i can save some money (only paid $825 for a brand new one). Im also getting a fulltone OCD, Line 6 DL4, and a Keeley Modded TS808.


Waaaaaatch out!

What year is the Super Reverb?

I'll bet you soon start saving for an Overtone though....everyone should have an Overtone....

Super reverbs are awesome! unfortunately I wouldnt be able to use it over 1 volume haha they are loud beasts.....

Yeah, got a brand new one from a guy off ebay for $825. Its one of the new reissues of the 1965 model. It really sounds fantastic, i even got the chance to A/B it to a 1967 SR and to be honest i think i preffer the newer one to the 67 which was about $800 more. BUT let it be known, as im sure all of you know, the vintage models can all vary in tone even if made the same year.....age tends to effect an amp differently from another but i dont have time to look around for the perfect vintage SR.

This amp is killer if you havent tried out one of the reissues give it a shot!

As for an overtone, ive already decided its going to be my next amp.....but thats lookin about 2 years from now when i get out of berklee. Maybe if i make enough as a recording engineer ill just go straight for the two rock but who knows. What i do know is i will still be around on this forum because you all have been a great help and i love talking gear with each of you.

I could spend hours talking about tubes and pedals and what little things i love about chasing tone, and i cant do that with any of my friends because they just aren't "into it" like i am. Its nice to find others that are into it and dont think im just a spoiled 20 year old when in fact ive worked hard and in fact have never gotten a single paycheck since i started working at 16. Its all gone to equipment haha.

Thanks for the help!
-Chris

One thing about the overtone is that it is point to point. I don't care about the sound debate of this. But after touring for near 15 years with different amps,. the point to point amps are always far more reliable.  This would be the only disadvantage with the new reissues,as in general they sound ok. With a few mods they can sound pretty good.
Some of them sound better than the silver face equivalent specifically the Twin.
Nick