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Author Topic: possible bias issues  (Read 20420 times)
René F
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2008, 09:38:21 AM »

I recently spent some time with 4 sets of 6L6 tubes in my amp and I found there was a little 'grainy' character with the bias low (25ma) and this got better for each tube up to about 35ma. One set even sounded best at 42ma, but another old, old set arced (internal spark) at 42ma. The sound at 25ma was still very acceptable for all the tubes, though, just depends on how critical you are. It is a trade-off between smoothness of tone and heat. I wound up liking from 35ma to 38ma, but this is a home recording amp. For gigging, less heat and more reliability might dictate around 30ma.

In terms of changing your bias circuit, either raise that 1.2k resistor with experimentation, or e-mail Nik to see what he recommends.

I've emailed Nik, and he told me that i have to measure from the red point to the black point, with my meter set at DC

Then i have to regulate it till it says 30-40 mV....

I did that and when measuring the from the same point with my meter set at mA, it only reads 11,6 mA... But according to Nik this is fine

I don't understand this at all.  If mA and mV should be reading the same and Nik said bias should be 30-40 mV, why would a reading of 11.6 mA be fine?? Huh?  Am I missing something?

Nik wrote this to me

 " I dont think the standard meter will give an accurate reading. The resistance inside the meter screws the reading, I would think."



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erwin_ve
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« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2008, 10:13:59 AM »

The whole idea of build-in 1 ohm bias measure points is that you measure the dc-voltage!!!!
If you start measuring the current, you got wrong numbers because that's not the way bias measure points are build for. It is simple standard electronics but a bit too much for this thread.
If you're really interested in the the explaination; google: aiken amps, he has lots of info on tube tech related matters.
Or visit your local amp tech for a proper bias Tongue.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 10:24:24 AM by erwin_ve » Logged
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2008, 02:34:22 PM »

Jap, The 1 ohm idea is fine in theory.....

If I measure from one of the testpoints (the tipjacks) to to the center testpoint between the output tubes, I get 1,2 ohms, which means I have to deduct 20% from my mV readings.

Hereof, a measurement om 25mA (mV) actually means 21 mA - a pretty severe error margin don't ya think??

Whats the moral?? use your freaakin' ears to bias an amp
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ic-racer
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2008, 03:54:26 PM »

Jap, The 1 ohm idea is fine in theory.....

If I measure from one of the testpoints (the tipjacks) to to the center testpoint between the output tubes, I get 1,2 ohms, which means I have to deduct 20% from my mV readings.

Hereof, a measurement om 25mA (mV) actually means 21 mA - a pretty severe error margin don't ya think??

Whats the moral?? use your freaakin' ears to bias an amp

Here we go....

The additional 0.2 ohm resistance of your test leads would only come into play if these leads were in SERIES with the one ohm resistor. This is  not the case. When you take a VOLTAGE reading with the multimeter, the total resistance across the leads, INCLUDING THE BOX, is probably on the order of a thousand ohms. So the additional 0.2 ohms of the leads would make it one thousand point 2 ohms. This will  not change your readings.

What you do need to be aware of, is not all the tubes current comes through the cathode. Some leaks through the grid, and this is what you will NOT be measuring with the cathode bias method. The leak is usually small.
So when you measure 32mv you have 32ma coming through the cathode. The total tube plate current (including that going through the grid) would be like 35ma or so. Its OK to make this estimation, because actually measuring the plate current can be dangerous, but is easy to do if you are so inclined Wink

I am in 100% agreement to use your ears, but I was getting a smoother sounding tone up past 42ma on one set of tubes. That's fine, but one arced on me when they were that high. So, you want the best sounding bias setting that is up to or below the recommended heat dissipation of the tube in question.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 04:08:33 PM by ic-racer » Logged
bluesfendermanblues
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2008, 07:10:07 PM »

Ok, point taken.

So set bias to 32-35 mA and then use your ears... Grin
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ic-racer
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2008, 03:50:31 AM »

Ok, point taken.

So set bias to 32-35 mA and then use your ears... Grin

Exactly!
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fred
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« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2008, 03:44:56 PM »

i just measure the bias again using the DC 200mV setting and i am now getting a voltage of 96mV! seems a bit far off the 26mA i was getting. Something wrong perhaps?
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JohnE
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« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2008, 04:10:54 PM »

Fred,
I would suggest not using the current measurement at all. If you have a 1 ohm shunt resistor installed, as I believe there is in the OTS, the mV reading in directly proportional to the actual current. Most multimeters have an internal fuse that can blow  without the user knowing. The voltage reading is much more reliable. If you are reading 26mV that is probably what it is w/in the accuracy of the 1 ohm resistor (1.2 ohms is really unacceptable for this purpose, the resistor for bias measurement should have a 1% tolerance). If you are really in to using this bias method and the resistor is really 1.2 I would replace it.
Also try another meter that is known to be reliable.

Good Luck
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ic-racer
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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2008, 05:41:18 PM »

i just measure the bias again using the DC 200mV setting and i am now getting a voltage of 96mV! seems a bit far off the 26mA i was getting. Something wrong perhaps?

You do want to use a 'voltage' setting on your meter. You want the voltage potential difference on each end of the 1 ohm resistor. Then you calculate the amperage by multiplying by one. (even I can do it in my head Smiley ).

At 96mV, maybe you are measuring both tubes? A single tube with that actual reading would likely be red!
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fred
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« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2008, 06:40:12 PM »

thats what i thought. I have the red probe in one of the red sockets and the black probe in the centre black socket, which should measure just the one.
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René F
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« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2008, 08:49:06 PM »

thats what i thought. I have the red probe in one of the red sockets and the black probe in the centre black socket, which should measure just the one.

Have you turned the bias pot fully clockwise, when you have the 96mV... Because when i turned mine up to 26-28 mA (at its fullest) I had around the same readings in mV, and the 6l6 got extremely hot... try to bias the amp with DC reading between black and red jack. And bias it so it says something between 30-40mV

Kind regards

René
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JohnE
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« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2008, 09:36:48 PM »

I also had 25-26mV when I checked my bias. I increased it to 30 then 35 mA. There was no noticeable change in amp tone for me. It is possible that the tubes will run a little cooler, but my tubes were not running abnormally hot at the original bias. I am sure Nik has his reasons for this bias setting.

And...Although the bias check feature on the OTS seems to work fine. I use an AMP-HEAD Dual bias tester on my other amps. It has dummy sockets that plug in the tube sockets and then you plug in your tubes. It is pretty convenient for a quick bias check. AMP-HEAD also makes a device that measures plate voltage that will piggy back with the Bias tester. You don't really need this stuff if you change tubes infrequently. But if you change vacuum tubes frequently they are nice.
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