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Author Topic: Overtone/Blackface?  (Read 7819 times)
darkarbiter7
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« on: April 07, 2008, 11:23:30 PM »
Hey,
I've heard someplace that the original overdrive special is based off of a fender blackface (not sure if they actually are though, could someone confirm this?).
How accurate is the overtone's cleans to a blackface's cleans? I'm looking around at vintage blackfaces, and I can afford one, but I'll have to worry about swapping out internal components. So, I thought i'd save myself some trouble by ordering by ceriatone. So, my question is essentially, "How accurate are the blackface's tones to the overtone's?

Thanks!
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Gridlock
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2008, 03:25:49 AM »
i remember, when surfing for information about dumbles, i found information that the circuit was originally derived from a fender deluxe. i think what i read was from an interview with the original dumble maker himself but cant accurately remember.

moreover i spoke to an amp maker near me and we talked about dumble circuits and again he mentioned the fact that they were derived from a fender circuit. he said "cleans are nicer, rich" i obviously cant comment on that because i dont have a ODS but if you read the posts around here you'll see Mcinku and some other people commenting on the ODS's likeness to BF fender clean amps.
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stevorc321
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2008, 04:44:39 AM »
I asked a similar question a while ago.  Look at the responses for the topic 'overtone cleans'.  I asked about the OTs ability to achieve the stratty, BF, SRV sound.  The impression I got was that the OT had very good cleans, but probably a bit different than the archetypical BF sound whilst still being in the same ballpark. There was also a comment that a fair bit of the tone has to do with speaker choice as well.
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mcinku
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2008, 07:19:29 AM »
I had my OT side by side with the SF Twin and let me tell you my GAS for Twin is over.
I tested it with the Greenback at the time, now I'm using G12-65. Greenback has more sparkle and the low end is a bit different as well, but overall in the same ballpark.

If I would have to use my OT for the clean tone only, I would be happy.

 Wink
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wyatt
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2008, 07:27:43 AM »
The poweramp of the ODS/OTS is based on a Fender poweramp, HAD used a Twin Reverb poweramp on many of his original amps. 

But the preamp design of an amp is its true voice and the OTS/ODS clean channel will definitely conjure up thoughts of Fender, but the ODS/OTS is even more mid-scooped than a Blackface/Silverface Fender, so it's a little more pristine and jazzy and little less fat and bluesy. 

Now, Gridlock, brings up an interesting side-note.  What HAD actually said was he designed the Overdrive channel to be able to give the cranked Tweed Deluxe tone at any volume.  I think it's a bit saturated, symmetric, and tight for a Tweed Deluxe tone, but others point to early versus late David Lindsey as an example of how he mad the Tweed Deluxe to ODS switch and still kept his tone.
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mcinku
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2008, 08:18:36 AM »
I was really surprised when I heard my OT clean sound. In my mind I knew the V1 stage is different compared to standard Fender design. For example, #124 is a lot more Fenderish in V1 design.
What I'm trying to say Fender (and #124) have 100K plate resistors and 1.5K cathode resistors with 10uf  cathode  bypass cap. On the other hand Overtone comes with V1a 220K/3K3 4.7uf  and 150K/2K2 2.2uf on V1b and a different so called Skyliner tone stack.
So it should sound completely different, right?
Well it does not, not to me at least...
When I'm playing Twin I always max the mid control and set the bass and treble to my liking. With the OT which is very strong in the mids like Wyatt said, you don't need to do that. So if you are looking for strong firm mids, OT is definitely for you.
Bass and treble are already there.

...and even more, this amp is very versatile, you can get very close to Tweed 5E3 tone as well. With the deep switch and PAB you can get that Tweed tone as well, so I can relate to what Wyatt said about that as well.

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stevorc321
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2008, 09:28:17 AM »
Quote from: mcinku on April 08, 2008, 08:18:36 AM
With the OT which is very strong in the mids like Wyatt said, you don't need to do that. So if you are looking for strong firm mids, OT is definitely for you.
Bass and treble are already there.

I am a bit confused - Wyatt said the mids are more scooped than a BF fender (i.e it has less mids).   Huh?
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mcinku
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2008, 10:03:21 AM »
Quote from: stevorc321 on April 08, 2008, 09:28:17 AM
Quote from: mcinku on April 08, 2008, 08:18:36 AM
With the OT which is very strong in the mids like Wyatt said, you don't need to do that. So if you are looking for strong firm mids, OT is definitely for you.
Bass and treble are already there.

I am a bit confused - Wyatt said the mids are more scooped than a BF fender (i.e it has less mids).   Huh?

Uhhh sorry, it has to be my English.  Embarrassed
I would definitely say OT has more mids than the SF Twin I played and not vice versa.
OK maybe that's 'cause I used Greenback (and G12-65) which are known to be mid strong speakers... at least compared to C12K.

 Huh?
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darkarbiter7
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 10:37:40 AM »
Thanks!
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stevorc321
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 12:13:16 PM »
Quote from: mcinku on April 08, 2008, 10:03:21 AM
I would definitely say OT has more mids than the SF Twin I played and not vice versa.

Yeah that makes sense - I thought the general consensus is that the D style amps are supposed to have stronger mids than BF/SF Fenders.
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jake
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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2008, 12:19:32 AM »
I own several Blackface amps, a Deluxe, Deluxe Reverb and Super Reverb as well a Tweed or two. The Overtone has much more mids than any of them. It also has better bass. The overdrive still reminds me of an old Marshal more than a cranked Fender.
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ChrisL
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2008, 01:19:49 AM »
Quote from: jake on April 09, 2008, 12:19:32 AM
I own several Blackface amps, a Deluxe, Deluxe Reverb and Super Reverb as well a Tweed or two. The Overtone has much more mids than any of them. It also has better bass. The overdrive still reminds me of an old Marshal more than a cranked Fender.

+1 Well said.  My thoughts and experience exactly.  My Fenders are gathering dust.
 
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