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| | |-+  Overtone Special vs Overtone Special S&M
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Author Topic: Overtone Special vs Overtone Special S&M  (Read 10084 times)
foreg
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« on: February 25, 2009, 05:09:43 AM »

Can anyone give me any details on the difference?
Which one has a better clean?

Thanks
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foreg
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 05:40:10 AM »

Im about to order an overtone special from nik! He recommanded me the S&M. I want a nice fat, warm fenderish clean and touch senstive drive. I want to be able to control my semi drive tones by touch and knobs from the guitar, play light to get clearer sound and harder to get the amp sing. With higher gain terriorty I'm interested in a round, fat lead tones. I'm a fan of Hilden, Ford and Lerner dumble tones. I play a es 335 mainly. Which ones of nik's overtone would you guys suggest? Just want to get more oppnions before I order. Also I saw someone selling a used standard overtone special in brand new condition... I'm just considering which is a better option cuz I can save quite a bit and do some mods on my own. Therefore I want to know what are the difference between the s&m and the standard version !!!

Thanks alot guys any input would be greatly appreciated Wink
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mcinku
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 06:58:04 AM »

Well both amps sound good... OTS will sound a little warmer on the clean side compared to S&M.
Main difference is OD channel.
While S&M will have more presence and bite (better in a band situation), OTS  will again sound warmer. Main thing here is, if you plan to switch channels during the songs go for OTS, if you tend to stay on one channel than S&M will work fine.
90% of people will buy D style amps for the OD sound only and almost never use clean (which is just as good).

So it depends how you plan on using this amp.
 Wink
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Alpedra
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 10:58:59 AM »

Let´s see...

I have an early Overtone. Quite similar to the S&M circuit.

My Overtone was modded according to some mods posted at this forum by the user Jzucker. These mods were suggested to him by Scott Lerner and Gil Ayan (probably you know them). Currently, I think that Nik´s version of the Overtone incorporates most of these mods. Not all.. but a big part of those mods, yes..

For my taste, the OD sounds much better now. Less harsh, warmer and smoother. Of course, for some people, the S&M might sound better..

By the way, you are looking for sounds around Hilden, Ford and Lerner, right? Don´t know about Hilden, but Ford and Lerner gravitate more towards the HRM circuit. I know, I´m just making things even more difficult for you..  Grin

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Overtone + 36W ef86 TMB = Tone Heaven
Jimmyd
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 10:08:17 PM »

The cleans are all but identical between the S&M and later version OTS models.

We did a shoot out and they sounded identical using both strats and 335s.  Pics eventually of this scientific testing that was undertaken last weekend.

Jim
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foreg
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2009, 02:14:03 AM »

thanks for the replies ! I didn't know the s&m was the first versions released.. Can someone give me history lesson? On log page of nik's site it said the s&m was release nov 2008?
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mcinku
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2009, 09:41:55 AM »

Well technically speaking S&M has a bright cap on the master vol,OTS does not and S&M has 2.2uF V1b bypass cap and OTS has 5uF. Both things do affect the clean side.
Like I said OTS should be a bit warmer.
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Jimmyd
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2009, 05:53:25 PM »

Well technically speaking S&M has a bright cap on the master vol,OTS does not and S&M has 2.2uF V1b bypass cap and OTS has 5uF. Both things do affect the clean side.
Like I said OTS should be a bit warmer.

OTS cleans are just a smidgen warmer, but this is easy correctable by turning down the treble on the S&M.  They are effectively the same.

jim
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LUSN
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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2009, 07:41:50 PM »

I actually have both the S & M and currentish OTS... I would agree that the S & M is a little more harsh, but not by much. Another thing I did notice... the S & M is 2.5 lbs heavier! Same cab, both made by Ceriatone...
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JohnE
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2009, 09:31:25 PM »

thanks for the replies ! I didn't know the s&m was the first versions released.. Can someone give me history lesson? On log page of nik's site it said the s&m was release nov 2008?

Hi, I am not an authority on this, but after following the forum for over a year, here is my impression of the history of the OTS:

The S&M version is, in fact, the original. I purchased one that was built late March / early April 2008.  This version is the one most people heard on the Sami & Marin videos and then  purchased the OTS  based on what they heard there. However, some people felt there was a certain "harshness" (I think they are saying sort of a thinness and sharp bite) that needed to be removed. As a result, a significant amount of mods were made to the "stock" OTS  give a "smoother" output or have more fullness. There were several contributors to the mod specs, Zucker being the main proponent, with several others contributing their thoughts and/or experiences. The interest in these mods eventually got the attention of Nik, who instituted the mods in the newer OTS and also inspired him to come out with the HRM, Blues Master and 100W versions. I guess things finally came full circle and enough people thought the original OTS (aka S&M) version was not so bad after all. So it is now available again.

I am personally fascinated by the efforts people have gone to to change this amp, but beyond recognizing some people just love to tinker and want to see what they can come up with in the never ending quest for tone, I don't get all the angst.

Part of the angst, I am sure, is caused by the fact that certain people have a particular sound that they want to emulate (e.g., Ford, Carlton, etc.) which they are basing that on a particular recording that they like.  I use the OTS playing with a band that plays blues and rock & roll. There is a lot of variety in the music and I have to vary my tone quite a bit. Dialing in a perfect Robben Ford tone (although I love that sound) just isn't practical for me.

 The way I get the most "on the fly" versatility out of the OTS is to use pedals. I rarely use the OTS Overdrive on stage and when I do, it is usually to boost my leads or add a little "hair" when appropriate. The pedal that I use the most is a Visual Sound RT66. Not because it is any better than any other TS808-based box, but because it combines a compressor on the same pedal. That compressor thins my rhythm p.u. tone  for me when I need it. The other pedal on my board is the Zendrive. It truly  is a "Dumble in a box". The Zendrive sounds killer (no "harshness") through the OTS and much better than through, say... a blackface  fender. I can find a Dumble-like  tone using  just the OTS OD and other settings set-up properly, but I lose my flexibility.  The cool thing with the OTS clean channel boosted by a TS808 style pedal, is that you get that added harmonic detail that Dumbles are famous for, on top of the tubescreamer tone.  I use this set-up for the bridge p.u. on rock & roll numbers (think Johnny B. Good).  Having said that, I'll use the Zendrive anytime I can get away with it.

It is certainly possible to get the "harshness" that people complain about with the "S&M" , but it has not been noticeable to me with my normal "live" set-up. Just get your settings right to avoid it.

So what does all this rambling mean, you may ask. Well just that, IMO, you don't need to sweat which version OTS you get. They will all sound good, including the S&M. If you have a certain sound in your head, you could be disappointed with any version you have, but I am confident you can find a great tone if you work at it a little. The amp has a lot of variables that change things dramatically.

P.S. Anyone else who has a better handle on OTS history please feel free to correct anything I've written above  
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