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Author Topic: Overtone ots/hrm in the church arena  (Read 6286 times)
dbarr446
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« on: October 07, 2011, 07:52:07 PM »

So, I do not own an overtone just yet, but will soon enough. I play lots of church venues and was wondering if this would be a suitable amp for this genre. I currently run stereo into a fender bassman 50 and a vox ac30 cc2, but i just can't get over the awesomeness of the dumble tone. Any opinions, suggestions, warnings etc....?
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tboulette
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 08:37:57 PM »

Not sure what your concern is here -- either you like the tone (which you say you do) of the amp for the purpose you have in mind or not.  In (most?) churches, I assume a dual rectifier would be inappropriate, but that not what these are, obviously.   Undecided
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-Tim

OTS FM100 head with matching 2x12 cab; self-built 18 Watt TMB 2x12 combo
dbarr446
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 11:45:55 PM »

I guess what my real question was is if anyone uses one on a
Church stage. I always thought these amps were more prized
In the blues genre.

I was hoping to get maybe a review from someone that uses
One at their church or for ccm music in general and tell me how
It does.
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SoundPerf
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2011, 05:09:07 AM »

I think I understand what you're asking for here. I think it would be a fine amp for church or ccm. The only thing I would ask, is how much tonal versatility do you need. If you're just doing mostly rhythm backing and non-overdriven stuff you could probably get away with something simplier. Like a single channel type amp. But if you do soloing and especially overdriven soloing (and rhythm) and need versatility then it will be a great amp. And IMO the HRM is very versatile. It won't go into feedback/bloom/sustain at lower volume levels as easily as the standard OTS, but I think sometimes that gets too much emphasis anyway.

I get so many useable tones out my HRM that I can't imagine not being able to fit in most genre's of music. I suppose maybe Death Metal dropped D chugging at 130dB might be out. But then again I can get it to be rather raunchy also.

Also something to consider. These amps seem to be very pedal friendly. So if there is some type of OD tone you can't get, a pedal on the clean channel will probably do the trick.  Cool

I suppose the bigger decision will be whether to get a 50 or 100 watter.
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Chris

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212Mavguy
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2011, 01:13:09 PM »

A D-style amp can be the sweetest ever for gospel music/worship!!!  That's all you really need to know, but for a major dose of keyboard diarreah keep reading

 Wink

After obtaining my 50w HRM with the lift neg fb mod and C-lator, I realized how nice a D-style amp would be for worship.  I was using another amp, also a boutique amp, for worship, but the amp I was using was a single channel.  It has wonderful tone, and after getting my HRM, I found that I could coax similar types of singing overdrive tones by gain knob settings on the amp I was using, a Siegmund Midnight Blues running a personal tube cocktail.

I just wanted more choices for gain/tones and I did NOT want to use a stomp box to get my OD, was looking for tube harmonics.  Many gospel recordings feature guitar players using a thin, bright and nasty solid state distortion sound, to me a big "UGH."  So I was perusing ebay and happened across a Marsh fsx-50, from Marsh Amps, an OTS type using Ceriatone boards assembled in the US with MM PT and Heyboer OT, it was listed at a BIN price a few hundy less than retail from the Marsh site.  It has the OD trim on the back panel, which I consider to be essential, as well as a half power switch that straps the power tubes into triode mode.  I asked the seller about installing lift neg fb mod and he quoted me a price increase of 35 dollars.  He wired it to the ground switch on the back panel.  So, since I have more than a hundred vintage tubes in my collection and did not want any new production tubes in the amp anyway, I asked him for no surcharge in exchange for shipping the amp tubeless and adjusting the PI trimmer for a 12ax7 having balanced sections.  So he did. 

That amp sits in the sanctuary now, with no c-lator, it goes into the sound board via a Weber MASS custom built for me with a balanced line out.  The MASS is being used as a glorified direct box, attenuation dial backed all the way off for little to no attenuation.  So no micing ever, and I control my tone going into the mixing board as well as how hot the signal is from the full tone stack that controls the line out.  Again, I used a tube cocktail from my collection for this amp, and it goes through a pair 2/12 closed back cabs in parallell running vintage HIFI speakers,  Shocked JBL/Ampex 12's and Pioneer pw-302a each cab 32 ohms, so I use the 16 ohm setting on the amp output.  With the four 12 inch cones pushing a decent amount of air, I can be heard better from the speakers themselves at distance with less stage volume, an important consideration for the other musicians and choir, and also a little less help needed from the sound board.  The cabs are pretty neutral in sound, not as bright as many guitar speakers can be.  I use a TC Elecrtronic Nova System as my f/x box running in the amp f/x loop, 4 cable hookup method, it works great without any added buffer units.  The tremolo does not sound good by itself, but works acceptably in the overall mix, FWIW.  Reverb and delay are nice. 

Finally, if you want a smooth sounding overdrive that swells in the attack or sustain like a Hammond B3 rig does, sings into blooming harmonics at usable stage volumes, two incredibly helpful links in your personal tone chain are a potless volume pedal or talented fingers on your git's volume knobs, and a decent pair of HEMP CONE speakers.  I use a Hilton Electronics volume pedal, active and top shelf quality, I got my pair of custom hemp cone speakers from a custom reconer on eBay, he guarantees that you will like his stuff.  No big manufacturor ever does that.  Search "speaker 12 hemp" on the 'bay to see what is currently offered.  Hemp cones smooth out the highs well for distorted channel settings, allowing a bit more gain in OD trim or front panel gain knob with less grit and more harmonics in the tone.  I use the hemp cone 2/12 filled oval back opening "Luke" cab from Seismic Audio with my HRM for non-church playing out, and have gotten tone compliments everywhere I have played.  The custom hemp speakers in that cab started life as 1949 vintage Altec 600b alnico units.  They cost me less than TT or Eminence units.

hope this helps...
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 01:15:43 PM by 212Mavguy » Logged
dbarr446
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 12:31:59 PM »

WOW!!! thank you, guys for all of the feedback!!! I know I stll have a lot to learn about these amps, but the more i read, i discover that this amp could be a great addition to what i do. And like i said, i did figure it could handle almost any genre, but i just needed to hear it.

212Mavguy: the neg fb mod sounds really nice, especially to have it right on the back of you amp like that! I'm still a bit confused on what the c-lator is...and if it has anything to do with the effects loop, then i new to that as well. I have a fairly exstensive board and for the longest...since i started using pedals...i would and still do run it ALL to the front of the amp. Now that i hear how you are supposed to run the delay and verb throught the fxloop im wondering how im going to be able to keep all my pedals on the same board and run the extra cables the right way. Should i get 2 small boards (1 for od and 1 for delay and verb?) I trully thank you for all of your input and knowledge... I could really learn some stuff from you!!!!! and i really appreciate that!

Soundperf:Thanks you for your suggestions as well!!! I;ll be really excited to see what mine will doo for the tones I want to get!! And i'm just like you where right now I am using a single channel vintage amp, but im looking for something that I can actually depend on when it comes to an overdrive channel, that way, like you said, i can use a pedal with the clean channel for a variation of tone. So, thanks for your input as it it really helped!!
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212Mavguy
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 12:07:16 AM »

@ the OP:

Your question about desiring to run most of your effects in front of the amp while putting the time based ones in the loop is interesting.  What I think would benefit you significantly is to carefully read, more than once, the manual for your model of amp and especially the manual for the c-lator.  Because I use a multi-effects processor, all of my effects go through the loop.  I don't use a C-lator on my church rig only because the type of effects processor I am running does not put out as strong of a signal as many of the 9v powered effects do.  My volume pedal is the only thing that runs in front of the amp.  It's active, and features an optical circuit instead of a potentiometer to vary the volume, and I want the varying signal strength to go to the first gain stage in the preamp.  I can't see any reason to run effects in front of the amp.   Whether you decide to use effects or not, the c-lator is pretty nice to have as part of the amp.  Worth every penny and then some.
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