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Author Topic: Overtone Lead Boost Volume in Overdrive  (Read 9394 times)
jeffhamula
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« on: August 15, 2013, 07:47:14 PM »

Got a 50 watt OTS head through 2X12 G12-65 closed back cab.  Love the tone, but I am really now refining my live application - which right now is chasing volume through the large jam build ups (classic rock based funky jam band).

I find that the PAB boost in the overdrive channel does not boost enough (a lot less than the clean channel) to dominate when I need it to.  I have a Kleinulator, and have tried a LBP1 (Electro Harmonix Linear Boost) in the buffered loop, but it reacts differently based on what else is on (3X volume boost when the delay pedal is on, and 2X boost when delay is off???).  Lately I have been manually twisting the send on the Kleinulator with my toe for solo boost (volume boost) and twisting it back post solo which is not a very elegant situation.  I have been considering a volume pedal in the loop as well - active I suppose.

But before I go buy more stuff, I thought I would ask you guys so that I don't miss something...

I am not sure if my trim gain is too high so the PAB boost is already nearly maxed, or if there is a circuit problem with my boost (it works in clean tones and does get richer in overdrive), or if I should turn my EQ down so the PAB is more differentiated, or try a volume pedal in the loop, or stomps out front?

I LOVE MY TONE, just can't dial my volume very easy on the fly.
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1992 American Fender Strat
Edwards jimmy page les Paul
1993 Fender Blues Deville 2 12
Ceriatone OTS (self built)
G12 65s in Marshall cab
1999 Fender Jazz Bass
Peavey tmax 210 15 amp
Pearl Export Drums
sduck
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2013, 03:36:14 AM »

Sorry, I have a bluesmaster, so I'm not sure if the pab circuit works the same way. There's a way you can run a pair of wires from the pab circuit to an external pot to control the amount of volume boost you get when it's engaged. When I ordered my kit the pab circuit already had this wire attached with no indication of what it was for, but a little searching here turned up its purpose. Perhaps someone can be persuaded to add to this...

Otherwise I can just advise the usual - practice with what you've got - learn the subtleties of your various volume controls. The one on the guitar is the key for me - always save the last bit for when you really need it.
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GuitarHack
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2013, 03:33:01 AM »

As I understand it, the PAB simply bypasses the tone stack, which results in more signal getting through.  So its not really a true boost, you're just removing attenuation caused by the tone stack.
The difference in volume is less apparent in the OD channel than the clean channel because the OD signal is compressed.

The solution for you might be a clean boost pedal.  You could use it to boost the signal when engaged, or you can use it as an 'underdrive' - setting its gain low so when you disengage it, you get a 'boost'.   I don't use pedals anymore but I used to have an Xotic RC Booster and would give it a high recommendation.
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OTS 50
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custom Paduk neck-through Strat
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GuitarHack
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2013, 03:43:11 AM »

The Xotic EP Booster comes highly recommended too, but I've never tried one.
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OTS 50
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custom Paduk neck-through Strat
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plasticvonaband
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2013, 11:46:52 PM »

. As jeffhamula stated, On the majority of the OTS amps, the PAB lifts the tonestack and removes it from the signal chain to a varying degree, depending on the model. In studying the layouts, each model seems to employ this lift a little differently, depending on the design of the stack and if the circuit has a mid boost or deep boost, etc and these little differences seem to allow for either more mids or high mids to get thru, depending on how it is employed. It seems only the BM does a full across the board lift, and, in the originals, employed a higher value resistor (22M vs 68k) resulting in even more boost. I have my PAB wired on a switch with 22M and 68k, and there is a huge difference.
In your case, I'd try a clean boost pedal IN FRONT OF the amp, not in the loop. I was using a Boosta Grande for a long time, and switched to the BYOC Tri boost. They both work very well, just different flavors Smiley

Sorry for the long winded explanation, and I hope this helps!

Gregg
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Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
jeffhamula
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2013, 05:43:13 AM »

Thanks I'll try the front boost.  I have an lp1 but seem to end up using a keeley mod ts9 depending on the guitar I have in my hands. I keep hearing about xotic and seeing dudes get crazy tones out of their fenders and egnaters with that boost.

As I analyzed all my knobs on this PAb boost, I discovered there is a newer layout for the mid boost and mine was wired to the older layout!  I updated it and my amp now has a bit of a different voice on v2 with mid boost.  I need to order some tubes to get that lead gain more dialed as it feels a bit grainy now with JJ and tung sols.  Any recommendations?  RCA grey?

Also Have any of you done the variable slope resistor mod?

Thanks all - I love reading this forum.
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1992 American Fender Strat
Edwards jimmy page les Paul
1993 Fender Blues Deville 2 12
Ceriatone OTS (self built)
G12 65s in Marshall cab
1999 Fender Jazz Bass
Peavey tmax 210 15 amp
Pearl Export Drums
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 11:06:19 AM »

I have all the parts and advice from Nik to do the slope mod, just have to find the time to do it.

As for tubes, I generally run late 50's/early 60's Long Plate GE tubes in V1 and V2, and a telefunken ribbed plate in V3 and in the c-lator. The Telefunkens are known for their toughness and long life, so I think they are perfect for the PI and the small space in the c-lator.Sometimes i run a JAN GE 5751 in V2 for a different flavor.

For output tubes I run either the Tung Sol "reissue" 6L6GC which offers a nice 5881 sound without worrying about redplating, or JAN Phillips 6L6WGB. The 6L6WGB is a small bottle tube, which is rated at a lower wattage (23-25) compared to a typical 6L6. It is a sweet sounding tube, I think mainly because it is on the razors edge as far as plate voltage and current is concerned. In the BM it really brings out it's raw tweedy side. the OTS the B+ voltage is just outside the range of the tube, so use with caution. I have redplated one once, but was able to shut her down before it went into full melt down.

Sorry for the long post again, but I hope this helps!

Gregg
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 11:10:24 AM by plasticvonaband » Logged

Overdrive is like peanut butter. Some like it crunchy, some like it creamy.
Bluesmaster 50 2x12 combo and some guitars.
gigs
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2014, 12:00:03 AM »

OTS HRM BM 100 Watt. I use a Fulltone Fulldrive II (Comp cut mode) in front of the amp for the extra kick in clean or OD mode. I don't use the PAB switch in clean mode at all. I have PAB on always for OD mode. This amp takes pedals so well.

This amp is fantastic but it does take a while to dial in the live sound; esp. given each venue is a bit different. Good sound check with the whole band at volume is critical to dial it in.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 12:17:07 AM by gigs » Logged
GuitarHack
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 03:40:15 AM »

I have tried different slope values on my OTS 50.
The original was 150K.
I was looking for a spongier, more compressed sound.

Had 68K in there for a whlie.
At first I really liked the change but after a while I wasn't so sure.
It was more spongy and compressed but was also a bit dull and made the tone controls much less responsive.
Currently using 100K which seems to be a good compromise for now.

Changing the slope resistor makes quite a big difference in the feel and response, so worth playing with.
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OTS 50
2004 PRS Single Cut Trem
Mollenhauer Strat
custom Paduk neck-through Strat
Mack Heatseeker 36
Peavey Classic 50
jeffhamula
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2014, 04:26:14 PM »

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas.   I love this amp partly because it's really taught me more about the entire signal path.   My tone on all other amps has improved due to knowledge that allows attention to details.

Does nik sell a kit for the slope resistor radial switch mod?  I'd definitely want to try.

Ive acquired some vintage GE long gray and some sylvania Huh? 12ax7s recently and I'm finally getting tone I am really excited about.  I've also started playing with bias. I re-checked bias recently and found my "matched set" JJs were like 12-13 apart now.  Either I screwed up, or something happened to one of the tubes... Anyway I don't know how that happens, but between swapping preamp tubes and pushing the bias a bit after getting a matched 6l6, I'm a happy camper.

Lately I'm just using volume knob (which only works for like the first 3 songs) Smiley and keeley ts9


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1992 American Fender Strat
Edwards jimmy page les Paul
1993 Fender Blues Deville 2 12
Ceriatone OTS (self built)
G12 65s in Marshall cab
1999 Fender Jazz Bass
Peavey tmax 210 15 amp
Pearl Export Drums
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