Ceriatone Forum

Hey guys,

first of all, let me introduce myself. My name is Fabian and I live in Germany. I'm the guitar player and singer in a Blues Trio. We play mostly Hendrix, SRV, Bonamassa and a lot of self-written songs.
My setup:
- DIY Strats
- Fernandes Telecasters
- Gibson Les Paul VOS 1960
- modded Fender Bassman LTD.
- orig. Fender Blackface Super Reverb

I'm really happy with this sound. Real bluesy tones;-)

But, Im looking for a different sound. That's way I'm thinking of getting a Ceriatone OTS.
I want a amp with fenderish clean sound and a blues-rockin' smooth, fat Overdrive (something like Bonamassa) for my Les Paul and Strats. Nik has sent me some sound-descriptions of the different Overtones and I think the HRM Bluesmaster will fit to me.
I don't want to take 2 amps with me for a gig. Maybe I can take only one the HRM BM for getting my Blues sound.

But one question is left.
I don't know if I should buy the 50W or 100W version.

Can anyone give me an idea of the differences of the 100W and 50W?

Thank you very much
and

Merry christmas!!

Fabian

If you want a proper clean sound at gig volumes, get the 100w. I can't get near the sound of my Twin with the 50w BM

Only get the 50w if you play small gigs, or if you want the amp to be well into break-up all the time. You can get a half power (triode on the 50w) switch that works quite well too.

with this amp, you will have the BF tone, and add a gritty, articulate OD that goes well with the bluesy sound. you can crank it up towards Santana, but there's no need.
The Preamp boost (PAB) offers a more conventional boost, which needs trimming back a little I think (ask fro a trimmer on the PAB). The PAB would be fatter than the OD the way I set up the amp. Get the OD trimmer too

I can't think of a better single amp for your needs. The HRM is worth getting - it will allow the customisation of your OD tone

One other point: this amp is a little dark, it needs a bright speaker, preferably Celestion Golds (it's twice the amp with these)

I don't need a extreme real clean. I love it when the amp breaks up a little bit if you play hard and gets clean if you play soft.
I play small club gigs but also big gigs with a real big stage. But on a big stage you'll have a microphone in front of it.

But I've read that the 100W has a more open and better sound even at lower volumes. What is your opinion on that?

I didn't thought of speakers yet. First of all I have to decide which version and then I will look for speakers.
The only thing I know is that I want a 2x12 cabinet.

Thanks

Fabian

my BM50 is not quite as clean as I would like in a home studio at playing volume.
Note: I don't run all amps clean, just the ones that are Twin-like
I would consider the 100w if I was reordering, even for studio use

tbh 50w or 100w will be OK, and you will be very happy if the D-style works for your style

AFAIK the Celestion Golds are recommended for all the OTS heads
I bought a Fane too, smoother but much less detail and character I think. Quieter too strangely (Fane claims 1dB more sensitivity. 3dB less I would say)

Hello,

thanks again for your help!

Maybe 100w will be ok. I'm only afraid the amp is too loud for me. Once I had a Marshall JCM 800 with 100W. It was just too loud to play at home or in a small club. It only sounded great if you played it loud on big stages.
That's why I thought of the 50W or 100W. If it's possible to play the 100W HRM BM with lower volumes then it will be ok. And if the HRM BM sounds better than the 50W even at lower volumes it will be perfect for me;-)

How's about a Weber Speaker in combination with the HRM BM?

Thanks

Fabian

I had a 100w Marshall DSL100, that was hugely louder than a 100w twin run mostly clean
A heavily distorted amp sounds like about 4 times the wattage of a cleaner one
With the BM you can balance the OD level (it functions as a separate master vol in a way, unlike most of the other OTSs) - the master vol on the BM does not affect the OD level, so you can have a 100w BM doing a 100w twin/super thing, then when the OD comes in, you can stop that beig 4 times louder anyway

I have a bluedog ceramic weber, it's good but not as rich as the Celestion Gold. Maybe the full-Alnico Webers are as good.
As I said, you need a bright speaker, and the Alnico effect works well with this amp. If you search, there are some posts on which is best. Pickmaster did a list, I'll have a look for that

Cheers
Tone

pickmaster's results of his test are at:
http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=715.msg5631#msg5631 (http://ceriatoneforum.com/index.php?topic=715.msg5631#msg5631)
which says:


With the BM50, I've tried Vintage 30s, Celestion Lead 80, Eminence red white and blues, Celestion Gold, Fane AXA12, Eminence MLE (Bass/clean driver), Matchless 2x12, Weber Blue dog ceramic (doped). The Celestion Gold sounds much better than any of the others

Cheers
Tone

Hello,

that sounds good.
You said something about a trimmer on the PAB. What is it exactly? And is this a special thing that Nik has to build in?

Thanks

Fabian

I've had other amps built with a trimmer to adjust the amount of boost for the PAB
For the BM,  by default it's too much of a boost for my liking. Used to be more still apparently. I like enough boost to take it up a level, rather than 3 or 4 levels
I'm told if you have a 100k trimmer put in instead of the 68k between mid pot and earth, you can tweak it.
I haven't had it done yet

Nik should be able to do it

Just to add a different opinion and some suggestions for Sloe.  I have the 100w, so I can comment on a few of things I've learned.  I know that TC doesn't like the EVs, but I can't say enough good things about them.  But they do have to be broken in.  I haven't found a better speaker, and yes,  I have tried the Golds and the Weber Alnicos (50w).  Tried it also with a V30/G12-65 combo and 2xG12-65s.  No comparison, EV all the way.  Though people say they are transparent, that's not entirely correct, as there is a low-mid spike.  It's just that the spike is in a "natural" place that makes the speaker sound transparent.  That may not sound logical, but that's what I've learned from TGP and other sources.  Make of it what you will.  What I know is that the character of each guitar I own comes through better with those speakers than any other, and the amp's tone controls seem to work better with them as well.

50w v 100w?

Good question.  I'd go with the 100w with a half-power switch and PAB trimmer, as well as one of the loop buffers, either the Kleinulator (solid state but cheaper) or the C-Lator (tube-based, but more expensive.  I think it sounds better, though it is a rack unit.  More on this later).  The buffer allows you run modulation pedals like delay, reverb, etc, without overloading the unit causing clipping.  It also acts as a pre-Phase Inverter Master Volume, allowing you to get great sounds at lower volumes.  Also, the first knob on the amp is a Volume control that adjusts the input volume from the guitar signal chain.  Like a saturation control, you can use it to push the clean channel into compression and OD, even with the 100w.  Combined with the buffer, you get lots of control.  All in all, there is no question: get the 100w. 

You can get a custom head cab built with a rack slot to fit the C-lator.  Get the amp without tubes and swap in Tung-Sol 12ax7s (make sure you get them from a supplier that tests them) and TAD 6L6-GCs. 

I've never tried EVs, I'd be happy to try them. My cleanest drivers are the ones I use for my Twin II's 2x12: Eminence ME12-1008LE, which I think are not bright enough for the BM50. I used to swear by them as a clear way to expose the amp's real sound, but with a few 5E3-derived amps and a DC30, I've accepted that some amps can't work properly with a clean, clear driver. Certainly a Twin sounds better through a clean clear driver than through v30s

I agree that 100w is the one to get, I got 50w but I am not convinced it's worth it to lose that headroom, for a Marshall clone I would say 50W every time, but this is a fendery amp.
I assume the half-power is a triode switch, which although not ideal (better to lose 2 valve like the DZ30), is done very well on my BM50

I usually play straight into the amp, so not too keen on the FX loops.
If I do use FX, it's usually just a delay or compressor with true (or nearly true) bypass anyway, but I am mainly doing recording and adding FX later

On speakers I'd say:
Like the amps themselves, you can get a shortlist of people's favourites, but you'll need to try them out to find yours.
If you know few people with good gear, you may have to buy more than you need and sell items on, but it's worth it.
If the EVs are bright, I have no doubt they could work well, and Celestion Golds do too. You can never tell until you personally try it

On a side note.
When you have an excellent amp (e,g, the BM, a DC30, etc), and find the speakers you like best, you then reach a great but horrible realisation that almost all the solos by your favourite guitarists on CD sound like the amp was lame, and that the amp you have sounds way better. OK, the recording, mixing and squashing onto CD doesn't help, but we really have such excellent gear these days that it's sad we can't take it back in a time machine to give to our heroes. I know people like to worship vintage gear, but you will find it hard to locate many recordings from the 60s or 70s that can match the tone I can dial up in my amps. Even recent recordings fail to capture how excellent these amps sound when you're in the room, but isn't that the same with any instrument?
OK, the Deluxe, JTM45 and AC30 were great, but look at what we have now, DC30s, Dumbles, boutique amps with whatever refinements you want

I just tried my amp with some ol' JBL D120's yesterday and I really liked them. Although they're probably preferred amongst the NON-HRM crowd, I recommend checking a pair out in an open back 2x12. I could see someone blowing the sh#t out of just 1 with a 100w'er though.....

  My regular speakers are Ev's in a ported 2x12, an Eminence Texas Heat in a 1x12 (small gigs), 2 Celestion g1265's in in a ported 2x12 (alternative 2x12), and I currently have a Tone Tubby Hemp cone I really dig too.

I think the standard D-styles are though of as Fender-derived, but the OD is certainly not

I'd recommend the BM50, but it's the only Ceriatone one I've tried. The HRM trimmers work great for me, I dial the treble down to the same level it is with no OD

You should get Nik to build the Deep switch the right way up, his schematic is upside down.
The Half-power may be useful to you, I don't use it

I'd like another relay and footswitch for the mid boost, like Fuchs do, but I think it's too much of a change to get Nik to do that

I think Pickmaster tried 10 inch drivers.

Cheers
Tone

Hey Sloe,

Just wanted to say that I went from a modded Bassman LTD to the Bluesmaster 100w.  Never looked back.  I loved the Bassman, but I needed good OD at lower volumes. 

Side Note: One thing I did to mod out the Bassman was to swap out the Jensens (I really hated these speakers) for the older Eminence Blues, which I really liked.  Which did you prefer? 

Never tried the Bluesmaster with 10" speakers, myself, but I think Tone is right that Pickmaster did.  Check out his postings. 

Today I tested the Weber 10F150 und 10A150 at my Super Reverb.
Great speakers but I like the old Blue Alnicos more than the Weber. The Eminence are softer and have more bass und the highs are not that hard and glassy than the Weber. But the Weber have tighter basses...

I never tried the Blue Alnico in my Bassman. Is it worth?

Thanks

Fabian

I am not sure which watt model to get. so i just wanted to know, if the 100W will give me better tone than the 50W at low levels, especially with the c-lator. i live in an apartment, so i think getting the 100W seems kind of crazy, but if the consense is that the 100W also sounds better at bedroom level, then that's the one to get. Is this right?
I also wanted to know if i need a trimmer for the PAB?

thanks

so i guess this is all correct?  ???

It is, fixxe,

Go with the 100w + lator of some sort.  Better to have the extra wattage and not need it (plus it does sound better), and you can easily dial down the vol with the lator.

Stephen

plus PAB trimmer?

thanks  :)